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'Return to ruins' A new Powerslave / Exhumed mini episode AND mapping documentation  "First true PS/EX custom maps AND a full mapping documentation !"

User is online   MetHy 

  • 1,496

#31

View PostGambini, on 05 January 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

Now, you made me realize for first time in 20 years that i have that glitchy beta (september 1996 - no music). Haven´t had luck finding the good one yet :unsure:


20 years really ?! I'm clueless about the history behind this beta version, but if it's 20 years I'm thinking it might be a press leak that's been in the way of the retail version since the start.

Like Oasiz said the September 96 version is the worst. IIRC that's the one in which, among other things, visibility is broken. FYI the game doesn't have gamma settings, instead what they call "gamma" and what you change by pressing F11 is visibility, which completely messes up the game (don't touch it, iirc there are 5 levels and the third one should be default). However, even if it's documented in the cfg file, visibility is broken in the September version and is stuck to 0.

In other words, you can't see shit, and for a game like Powerslave it gets even worse because they use palette to set forced full visibility on some items and surfaces, which will stand out even more if your global visibility is set to 0.
Then it gets even worse in our episode because we use slopes which have full visibility as well by default. You may not see any difference in most outdoor areas of our maps though, no matter your global visibility setting, because we used forced full visibility with palettes in those areas especially so that slopes wouldn't stand out in the distance,

Yes, it's a mess.

However IIRC the beta version does support music but you need the CD of the game or an iso of it.

View Postquakis, on 05 January 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

2nd map felt a little drawn out at times, perhaps some sections were longer than necessary? (a replay is needed to pinpoint exactly what)



Thanks for playing and for the comments.
I feel the same way about the map being drawn out in a way. I realized this when it was finished, I wanted the map to feel like you're searching the place for all 4 keys for the exit, but during the middle of the map the player just goes through numerous ultra-thematic rooms, one after the other. At first I wanted it more to feel like you return to the hub between rooms, but that feeling is lost because when you do after the baths room, the corridor you're in IS part of the hub but there is no visible connection to it yet until the walls go up. So the player doesn't realize he's back in the hub the first time he's in the corridor and as a result, it can make the player feel like he just goes from room to room with a lack of purpose.

I couldn't think of an efficient way to fix this without re-doing a lot of the connections between rooms so I just rolled with it.


This post has been edited by MetHy: 06 January 2017 - 02:05 AM

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User is offline   Gambini 

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#32

View PostMetHy, on 06 January 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

20 years really ?! I'm clueless about the history behind this beta version, but if it's 20 years I'm thinking it might be a press leak that's been in the way of the retail version since the start.



My copy got carried over all my pc upgrades since 1996. I always thought it was the only one version (never thought too much about it TBH). Back then, I used to work on a pc repair-store during the weekends and as payment I had free access to their pirated-games database (which was over 6000 titles). I only had to find the ID number of each game in their Norton Commander list and burn the CD with the diskette images I wanted. Golden times!

BTW I wouldn´t mind if someone points me to a download link for the good version.

My maps

eat my shorts
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User is offline   Manhs 

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#33

Gambini, i sent you a mail in your email ; )

I have played the first map (i don't want rush it) and it's wonderful, there is so much things We can do with the stuff of Exhumed !
Even just the map maker is awesome ! Very stable (i crashed i think when i press "Escape" in 3D mode, but it's not a problem, i just must to not do that).

Again, need more maps for this game !

(Powerslave EX has his sourcecode released, maybe some people will do something with it, need more Exhumed/powerslave anyway).

The team did an awesome gift for Christmas (december 23 in fact) but i just noticed it some days ago ^^
I can imagine so much maps with some other atmosphere, decorations or style.... some boss maps with the Anubis Soldier who help the boss with an epic music :lol:

Does it support a lot of enemies in the same map or big area? Shadow Warrior 97 engine seem to crash if there is too much enemies on an area and some grenade who explode.... (at least, with some user maps).

The gameplay of Exhumed is very fun, its played a bit like heretic (Projectiles with the enemies except with the alien guy who shoot bullet who are very fast) so like a run&gun fps, but it's with the possibilities of BUILD ! Jump on platform to not fall on lava is fun'.
Let's fight like a Pharaoh ! B)

This post has been edited by Manhs: 07 January 2017 - 01:59 AM

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User is offline   ironfist 

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#34

I signed up just to give you guys a big Thank You.
Exhumed and Redneck Rampage are my all time fav games.
Redneck has lots of user levels, and it was a big surprise to find
some Exhumed ones after 20 years of googeling.
I`m waiting for more.

Thanks!
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User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 335

#35

I haven't played this game so far, just watched the videos, and what I realize that the music is fantastic, just like you guys' fantastic work with it.

Unfortunately this game is another one that has wasps as enemy. They are the most loathsome creatures of the world, why they appear in video games. :unsure:

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 18 March 2017 - 12:23 AM

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User is online   MetHy 

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#36

Have some high-res 1024*768 screenshots of the episode :P , made possible with the dehacker

Spoiler


Framerate really takes a dive above 800*600 though
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor
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#37

Posted Image

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!
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User is offline   oasiz 

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#38

Really nice!
Sucks that you can't do steep slopes in exhumed DOS as they get glitchy. Texture set is still amazing and vibrant though.
Too bad that Duke3D PAL kills it a bit.

FYI, one cool trick they used is to map one ALTPal for "full visibility", this allowed quite fine tuned visuals on walls, i.e. having a split wall lighting (slopes and such) appear as fully lit from the distance.
Really nice with indoor/outdoor light contrasts.
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User is offline   LAW 

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#39

Hello.

I have discovered this topic due to this "mass e-mail" thingy. Additionally I had been contacted by Corvin in order to share my knowledge on Powerslave. I have two issues to discuss here.

The description of this topic says: "First true PS/EX custom maps AND a full mapping documentation". My map El-Gizah is called a rudimentary and a test map. So if your maps are the first true maps, then my map is untrue? That way we can call all maps before Roch2 untrue. Or better, Bob Averill in his readme file for BobSp1 implied that "there are nothing but crappy maps out there". Please people, show some respect. I have made this map in 2008. And for years, people have been scratching their heads and have been e-mailing me with: "How did you do that?".

This was not a test map. I have planned a whole sequel for Powerslave with three new ripped enemies and a few levels. But the amount of details I have put in some of the locations (Alexandria for example) simply killed the framerate. I repeat: it killed the framerate totally and I am affraid it has not been the fault of my one core CPU under DOSBox back then. I think that Powerslave is not that flexible as Duke Nukem 3D and it just can't stand the same amount of eye-candy. That's why I moved my project ad acta. El-Gizah is a copy-paste from what was left and is still quite choppy.

It would be nice if you were calling me by full name in any documentation or don't mention me at all.

Thanks

Ok Jackie, now it's my turn...

This post has been edited by LAW: 27 April 2018 - 02:08 AM

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User is offline   oasiz 

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#40

Apologies if that's the case!
Documentation was written mostly blindly at first and for example I have yet to complete the first level from PS/EX :)
I think your map was mentioned at one point quite late to the documentation and from what I understood from talking with others, it was more of a proof of concept (doesn't mean any less ambitious). It simply stuck in the documentation which was our scratchpad as we chugged along.
Everything mapping related is from scratch, aside from some misc. notes that might originate from RTCM (Not sure as I didn't write those bits).

Of course I'm in to giving proper credits but how I've just seen you is 'LAW' on these forums, I've never chatted with you and at least we wanted to give some honorary mention since you weren't really present when this stuff got dissected more in public before our release, if that makes any sense. Can you give a proper name perhaps or do you wish that we remove all mentions?
Mind you, we don't want to claim to be the first ever to map with this game and that does indeed give off the wrong message, but since the documentation was extremely thin and there is no proper mapping either aside from your previous efforts, we did consider ourselves a bit of pioneers when it came to the scale of this project, especially that everything ended up being documented and a bunch of stuff was experimented with, resulting in a mini-campaign that does some new stunts not seen before and have the aim of creating quite ambitious levels for the game.
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User is offline   LAW 

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#41

I like your answer :P

Everything what is done in this documentation is superb. However I am a bit surprised that you have had some "initial problems". Back then, I have been messing around Awesoken's website. And 30 seconds after discovering backmap.exe I knew: "A mod for Exhumed!!!!!!!!".

In reality the game won't stand the amount of detail I want to use. I mean the amount of detail like in my Racewar or Elvis map. I am really upset because that Alexandria map had some cool stuff included like mediterranean white buildings on the coastal line, a lighthouse and a library. What I got was maybe 5FPS on the coastline with the frameskip! Besides, my sequel would feature regions from outside Egypt like Timbuktu or Gehenna just to spice things up. I am not the best mapper out there, but you know I have my own style. If no source port is made for Exhumed, I might rebuild Alexandria in Redneck Rampage one day.

Ok Jackie, now it's my turn...

This post has been edited by LAW: 27 April 2018 - 02:59 AM

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User is online   MetHy 

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#42

We did acknowledge you and your map both in this thread, at the top of the first post, and in the documentation, again on the first page.

I'm sorry if you are offended by the word "true", I guess it can come as sounding off indeed, I didn't write that personally, but clearly the intent wasn't to shit on your map, but instead to emphasize on the scale this project.
I'm not sure what to say or how to say it that wouldn't offend you more, I'm not even sure if and where any of us said your map was "rudimentory", but compared to some other works by you and this project, it is. El-Gizah only has a few effects, vs this project documenting all of the effects used in stock maps + other un-used ones, slopes, etc and making use of them in 3 maps, including things that haven't been done in the original game.

You were first yes, and I feel like we gave the appropriate credits.

View Postoasiz, on 27 April 2018 - 02:38 AM, said:

notes that might originate from RTCM (Not sure as I didn't write those bits).


There was only the list of command lines and maybe cheats iirc. Which I doubt RTCM came up with anyway.

Now I'm not sure what what Corvin is up to but it looks like he could find his answers here

-=CHE@TER=- is doing and finding some interesting stuff, and there is someone else we know (which I'm not sure wants to be named) who is working on Powerslave, and I was actually hoping we could all work together to improve the documentation, instead of fighting over small things, especially considering how niche this is, with all proper credits due of course.
Sadly -=CHE@TER=- seems to only post on RTCM. I found a couple of glitches for his dehacker which I hope he can address.


This post has been edited by MetHy: 27 April 2018 - 03:03 AM

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User is offline   LAW 

  • 23

#43

Methy man.

Let's not call it a fight, OK? At least it is not a fight like back THEN ;)

So did you guys received that sikret e-mail? I am not impressed at all by it. While I am impressed by what I have read here.

I like the idea of working together. Maybe a mod someday? I am tired of PC gaming and there are a lot more cool things in life, but for Exhumed? Who knows...

Cheers

Ok Jackie, now it's my turn...

This post has been edited by LAW: 27 April 2018 - 03:06 AM

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User is offline   oasiz 

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#44

View PostLAW, on 27 April 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:

I like your answer :P

Everything what is done in this documentation is superb. However I am a bit surprised that you have had some "initial problems". Back then, I have been messing around Awesoken's website. And 30 seconds after discovering backmap.exe I knew: "A mod for Exhumed!!!!!!!!".

In reality the game won't stand the amount of detail I want to use. I mean the amount of detail like in my Racewar or Elvis map. I am really upset because that Alexandria map had some cool stuff included like mediterranean white buildings on the coastal line, a lighthouse and a library. What I got was maybe 5FPS on the coastline with the frameskip! Besides, my sequel would feature regions from outside Egypt like Timbuktu or Gehenna just to spice things up. I am not the best mapper out there, but you know I have my own style. If no source port is made for Exhumed, I might rebuild Alexandria in Redneck Rampage one day.


I'd be really interested on seeing those maps at some point!
Initial problems were that we needed to modify palette.dat to be able to use it in mapster since the first entry that is meant to be black was white instead, which meant that editing was near impossible. This was done as a BASEPAL for m32 to load. Then the map conversion chains, etc..
We got it to a point where launching a playtest from mapster would open dosbox + the map in question, super useful.
Initial issues also stemmed a bit from using different versions, i.e. the beta doesn't properly reset effects and some effects are unfinished. This caused some head scratching.
Shades are 64 values instead of 32, this made shading very challenging as you didn't have good visual feedback.
Among some other stuff.

You still didn't respond to my question, credits as LAW or something else ? :)



EDIT: No secret emails. I'd be interested on a mod if Ion Maiden didn't keep me busy (All three of us are mapping for it)
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User is online   MetHy 

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#45

View PostLAW, on 27 April 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:

Everything what is done in this documentation is superb. However I am a bit surprised that you have had some "initial problems". Back then, I have been messing around Awesoken's website. And 30 seconds after discovering backmap.exe I knew: "A mod for Exhumed!!!!!!!!".

In reality the game won't stand the amount of detail I want to use. I mean the amount of detail like in my Racewar or Elvis map. I am really upset because that Alexandria map had some cool stuff included like mediterranean white buildings on the coastal line, a lighthouse and a library. What I got was maybe 5FPS on the coastline with the frameskip! Besides, my sequel would feature regions from outside Egypt like Timbuktu or Gehenna just to spice things up. I am not the best mapper out there, but you know I have my own style. If no source port is made for Exhumed, I might rebuild Alexandria in Redneck Rampage one day.


Actually to me it looks like you did run into some of these intial problems. For instance the way we can't edit the skies to our liking in the editor because they're too big for what Build/Mapster handles, I suspect that's the reason why El-Gizah comes with a new .art file which seem to only contain a unicolour sky.

And yeah the game tends to lag very easily. I suppose it's same reason why, when using the dehacker, it's hopeless to try and run a resolution above 800*600.... older Build seem a lot more messy.
We also ran into crashes issues with our maps, not all of which we were able to identify.
For these reasons it seems to me people shouldn't aim for a project to big for this game.

View PostLAW, on 27 April 2018 - 03:05 AM, said:

Methy man.

Let's not call it a fight, OK? At least it is not a fight like back THEN ;)

So did you guys received that sikret e-mail? I am not impressed at all by it. While I am impressed by what I have read here.


I don't even know what fight you're referring to but I have an awful memory. Anyway - I don't know what e-mail you're talking about either, but if someone is making a mod for Powerslave, then I'm happy and I hope that person will find some use from the docs and tools.


This post has been edited by MetHy: 27 April 2018 - 03:48 AM

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User is offline   LAW 

  • 23

#46

Quote

Now I'm not sure what what Corvin is up to but it looks like he could find his answers here


I just found out this topic. Isn't Corvin trying to achieve what is already done here, eh?

Quote

Initial problems were that we needed to modify palette.dat to be able to use it in mapster since the first entry that is meant to be black was white instead, which meant that editing was near impossible. This was done as a BASEPAL for m32 to load. Then the map conversion chains, etc..


I know that the following statement won't do me any favours, but I have used Mapster32 only twice. I just prefer Jonof's Build or DOSBoxed Makemap. I have used transpal.exe by Awesoken, which meant no problems with the palette at all.

Quote

You still didn't respond to my question, credits as LAW or something else


I haven't done anything to help you with your FAQ so why bother? But if you feel so, my name is in any recent readme file by me.

Quote

No secret emails.


Well - maybe this e-mail is not secret, but the link inside the message certainly is. There is some editor in the making. It looks cool on the paper. But what is the point in making an editor, if any detailed map made with this program will cause the game's framerate to crawl.

Quote

Actually to me it looks like you did run into some of these intial problems


Heh. Yeah, those skyboxes :)

Ok Jackie, now it's my turn...

This post has been edited by LAW: 27 April 2018 - 01:20 PM

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User is offline   Manhs 

  • 13

#47

Is there any mapping project actually? (if it's possible to know)

I liked the 3 maps of the mini project, i think i will replay it! :lol:

It could be cool to have some maps who are not in the day but in the night, creepy pyramid atmosphere should fit well with Exhumed I think

I tried to maps with Heretic on Doombuilder but it was so poor and bad.....and with Exhumed, it's even harder with build map tools for me xD
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User is offline   Photonic 

  • 1,240

#48

Browsing git-hub the other day and noticed JonoF is working on JFBuild again recently. It's been updated to load and save the old version 5 & 6 map formats.
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User is offline   Bruno Mattei 

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#49

I'm really hoping Powerslave EX will have map making support once it's officially released.

A re-creation of the Build Powerslave would be fun too.
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User is offline   LAW 

  • 23

#50

View PostDrek, on 05 May 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

Browsing git-hub the other day and noticed JonoF is working on JFBuild again recently. It's been updated to load and save the old version 5 & 6 map formats.


Too bad it supports Vista OS and up only.

Ok Jackie, now it's my turn...
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