[AdrenalinDragon]

What's your favourite level in the Alien World Order episode? It's either Prima Arena or Mirage Barrage for me.

[PsychoGoatee]

Tough to pick one, lot of close calls, but I'm going with Tour De Nukem. Fun stuff.

[Loke]

Mirage Barrage, especially when you're exploring the pyramid. I love Egypt-themed maps and the music is great.

[NightFright]

It's time for a whole episode with Egypt levels. Especially now that we have the assets for it...

[Jolteon]

Mirage Barrage for me, Although I did like Golden Carnage too. Haven't played Prima Arena yet though.

[Loke]

NightFright, on 14 October 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

It's time for a whole episode with Egypt levels. Especially now that we have the assets for it...

This. Also keep an eye on AMC TC Episode 3.

[----]

Mirage Barrage for me.

Although I like city maps more and have played so many Egypt levels in Serious Sam that the theme is a bit boring for me now it is the only Duke Nukem like level (along with Golden Carnage on second place). The city maps in this feel like levels of an episode named Missed Opportunities and are boring and bland gameplay wise.

[PsychoGoatee]

To me the city maps here could be in an episode titled So Good I'm Weeping With Joy, but that's just my take.

[----]

PsychoGoatee, on 14 October 2016 - 09:46 PM, said:

To me the city maps here could be in an episode titled So Good I'm Weeping With Joy, but that's just my take.

DN3D was the first FPS with 'realistic' locations. And with each location there came inspired gameplay elements, interactivity and gags. All within the location's theme.
Now every FPS has realistic locations. But most of them are just a backdrop. Nothing that is build around the location gameplay wise. It is just realistic looking houses, streets, skyscrapers, etc ... nothing more.
And that's what Alien World Order is to me (minus Golden Carnage and Mirage Barrage): exchangeable backdrops.

[PsychoGoatee]

All I know is, of the hundred+ Duke maps I've played, I'd put the city maps of this episode near the top, especially Tour, Red Ruckus, and Bloody Hell. If I thought they had nothing going on gameplay wise, I wouldn't rank them so highly. It is of course personal taste.

I've complained about recent games just having boring recreations of realistic locations myself too in plenty of topics. I don't find that to be the gameplay style of these maps at all. The first map has strippers in windows in an alley, and ends with a thing you circle that warps reality.

[----]

PsychoGoatee, on 14 October 2016 - 10:08 PM, said:

All I know is, of the hundred+ Duke maps I've played, I'd put the city maps of this episode near the top, especially Tour, Red Ruckus, and Bloody Hell. If I thought they had nothing going on gameplay wise, I wouldn't rank them so highly. It is of course personal taste.

I've complained about recent games just having boring recreations of realistic locations myself too in plenty of topics. I don't find that to be the gameplay style of these maps at all. The first map has strippers in windows in an alley, and ends with a thing you circle that warps reality.

Gameplay aside: In Amsterdam weed is allowed and sold. Not LSD or any other drug that has the effects shown in the map. I don't think it fits the theme.

It had fit the theme if Duke went back to the 70s.

[PsychoGoatee]

Your logic is all over the map, you complain about being boringly realistic, then you complain that a creative bit of mapping is too unrealistic for the theme.

[----]

PsychoGoatee, on 14 October 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

Your logic is all over the map, you complain about being boringly realistic, then you complain that a creative bit of mapping is too unrealistic for the theme.

No, I said the effects didn't fit the theme and would be more appropriate in another theme (70s). Then I never said it is boring realistic. I said it is boring, because it only uses realistic backdrops instead of making something out of the theme.

The rest of the map is uninspired and boring, IMHO. I explained that in the other thread about world tour already what could have been done with Amsterdam.

And as someone else already said: Moscow and Paris could have the textures exchanged and it wouldn't matter. London could be for example Egypt themed too: It reminded me about a Serious Sam-level where you first run around a huge Pyramid and then enter it.

[PsychoGoatee]

They're terrific Duke city levels (to my taste), Pigsty or Hotel Hell could have taken place in cities other than LA, I wouldn't rank them based on how important their tree sprites and posters are to the level. The gameplay and design flow of the locations is to me clever and inspired, right up my alley of what I'm looking for as a fan of Duke maps. I get that we all have different taste and nobody is right or wrong, I just don't really get the specific areas you're choosing to mention. Why would it matter that Moscow and Paris could have textures exhanged? Recently tons of maps had their textures exchanged with Star Wars by Trooper Dan.

The things you're mentioning (essentially that the city maps are still abstract and are more Duke maps than real locations) is to me a plus, not a negative.

[----]

PsychoGoatee, on 14 October 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

They're terrific Duke city levels (to my taste), Pigsty or Hotel Hell could have taken place in cities other than LA, I wouldn't rank them based on how important there tree sprites and posters are to the level. The gameplay and design flow of the locations is to me clever and inspired, right up my alley of what I'm looking for as a fan of Duke maps. I get that we all have different taste and nobody is right or wrong, I just don't really get the specific areas you're choosing to mention. Why would it matter that Moscow and Paris could have textures exhanged? Recently tons of maps had their textures exchanged with Star Wars by Trooper Dan.

I say this, because an official episode that has World Tour/Alien World Order as a theme, where the global locations should matter, wastes a lot of potential if they are only maps (with mostly good gameplay, I agree on that) that are interchangable. The emphasize in this episode is that every map is a major location/city from around the world: they should have played that out.
The cities Pigsty and Hotel Hell take place in are not important, because it is the location itself that matters. The emphasize there is on the location Hotel and Police Station. And they play with the theme and have the Terminator do half the work for you there, get to the desks of all the heroes from action movies, etc ...

[PsychoGoatee]

The theme of these maps to me is "Duke Nukem city map", with the fun flavor of some new textures, and that happens to be my favorite theme. But I can see where you're coming from, we all enjoy levels for different reasons.

[----]

PsychoGoatee, on 14 October 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

The theme of these maps to me is "Duke Nukem city map", with the fun flavor of some new textures, and that happens to be my favorite theme. But I can see where you're coming from, we all enjoy levels for different reasons.

Yeah, all fine. I enjoy the gunplay (to narrow it down a bit) in most maps too.

It is just that I expected more in 2016 where mapping has come a long way (effect wise), we had hundreds of city themed user maps (some really good among them) from the original level designers when it come to creativity. IN 1996 it was awesome that you go down to the subway and you could actually board the trains. Jesus, that was so great. It played the theme 'subway' out. Of course that is nothing spectacular anymore. So they should have done a few more creative thing, IMHO: even if it just was a very well timed trigger when Duke exits a hole in a wall, and gets almost hit by a car coming from the right: "Hey, you drive on the wrong side of the street".

[Sledgehammer]

Blind vote goes to Mirage Barrage because Ancient Egypt is the best.

NightFright, on 14 October 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

It's time for a whole episode with Egypt levels. Especially now that we have the assets for it...

Million times this. Though Powerslave can work for the assets too.

[HulkNukem]

I didn't love playing it, but I really appreciated the Golden Gate level.
I don't really have a favorite at this moment; I haven't played the secret level yet but they each have some really cool moments.

[Merlijn]

Voted for Golden Carnage, Mirage Barrage and Bloody hell are close second and third.

I'm pleased with the overall quality of the maps, they're challening and fun to play.
And while they're more linear, most of them still have enough nooks and crannies to explore.

I might add a small review for each map, since that type of stuff is fun to do.

[MetHy]

Mirrage Barrage > Golden Carnage > Prima Arena (uncut) > Bloody Hell > Tour De Nukem > Red Ruckus > High Times > Hollywood Inferno

I think I'll write a review of each map as well Merljin. We should probably make a seperate threads for reviews and include all the ones we can find as well as our owns.

[NightFright]

It's sad that the game starts with a rather weak map. Apparently some guys already gave up on the episode after the first 1-2 levels. A mistake since the highlights are coming when you are 50% in. Too bad in ends on a quite low note with the simple boss level (then again, "Stadium" was almost as simple as it can possibly get).

[necroslut]

Voted for Golden Carnage. Bloody Hell comes close too. Overall I liked all the maps, with High Times being the weakest.

[MetHy]

NightFright, on 15 October 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

It's sad that the game starts with a rather weak map. Apparently some guys already gave up on the episode after the first 1-2 levels. A mistake since the highlights are coming when you are 50% in.

I think High Times is first because they thought it would be a great starting map due to the simple layout.

I don't think we, Dukers, have the same conception of highlights in the episode as most players nowadays. There seem to be many people, reviewers, youtubers and all, who thought that many maps were confusing and who would get lost in them, even in the most simple ones. The habits we have when playing, like picturing the map in our head as playing it to remember useful info like placement of doors locked by keys, isn't a habit for the modern audiance, because you don't need to do that in many modern FPS.

The devs may also have thought that the weed jokes are one of the high points of this episode.

[necroslut]

MetHy, on 15 October 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

I think High Times is first because they thought it would be a great starting map due to the simple layout.

I don't think we, Dukers, have the same conception of highlights in the episode as most players nowadays. There seem to be many people, reviewers, youtubers and all, who thought that many maps were confusing and who would get lost in them, even in the most simple ones. The habits we have when playing, like picturing the map in our head as playing it to remember useful info like placement of doors locked by keys, isn't a habit for the modern audiance, because you don't need to do that in many modern FPS.

The devs may also have thought that the weed jokes are one of the high points of this episode.

The first part of the level works as an introduction because it's short length and simple layout - but IMO the second part's sector-trick-"oddness" and the "fact" that it's one of the weakest levels makes it seem more fitting as a secret level to me. Also, no new babe sprites, disappoint.

On the other hand, none of the other, considerably larger, levels would really be an optimal choice for a starting level either.

[AdrenalinDragon]

MetHy, on 15 October 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:

Mirrage Barrage > Golden Carnage > Prima Arena (uncut) > Bloody Hell > Tour De Nukem > Red Ruckus > High Times > Hollywood Inferno

We kind of have similar rankings. However, I usually favour non-linearity, so Prima Arena (especially uncut) is my favourite as I feel it's the closest to a classic DN3D map layout outside the weak shading. Mirage Barrage is unique as it's the only official Egyptian level of DN3D, and Golden Carnage doesn't block you from using a Jetpack to skip the level and has some optional parts to explore in it.

As for the other five, three of them suffer a bit due to not being able to backtrack. Bloody Hell doesn't allow backtracking to the theatre once you use the TARDIS. Tour De Nukem doesn't allow you to backtrack once you fall into the sewers (unless you have the Jetpack from Prima Arena), and Red Ruckus really should have allowed the player to get back through the broken electrical door from the other side with a button or crack to it. Notice something? They're all Levelord levels, who we find out he dumbed down Prima Arena according to the dev commentary.

The final two, High Times and Hollywood Inferno were the maps that were most similar to a DNF level, and hence that was probably why they were my least favourite. So really, there were only two maps I'd consider pretty weak here.

[NightFright]

The lack of backtracking options annoyed me, too. It would have been so easy to make the TARDIS teleporter in Bloody Hell working both ways. A lost opportunity (however we can still hope for a map update).

[MetHy]

AdrenalinDragon, on 15 October 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

However, I usually favour non-linearity, so Prima Arena (especially uncut) is my favourite as I feel it's the closest to a classic DN3D map layout outside the weak shading.

Yes, and that is mostly because it's the only map in the new episode designed with Dukematch in mind.
I do think Prima Arena has many issues (more on that when I write my reviews), but the layout alone, despite its broken-ness, is what makes it good for me.

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Tour De Nukem doesn't allow you to backtrack once you fall into the sewers (unless you have the Jetpack from Prima Arena)

Yes, and the worst part about this is that they could have very easily done it. There are two moments in the map where you can see through a fence an area you access later (at first in the street, the blocked Metro entrance with the out of order sign; and then when you drop into sewers for the first time and you see the big cave). They could easily have made it so that you can open these fences once you reach the other side, which should at the very least have been possible for DM.

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and Red Ruckus really should have allowed the player to get back through the broken electrical door from the other side

Or simply have a broken switch on one side (it's already there), but a functionning one on the other.

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They're all Levelord levels, who we find out he dumbed down Prima Arena according to the dev commentary.

I hate to say it but Levelord was the biggest disappointment for me in this episode.

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The final two, High Times and Hollywood Inferno were the maps that were most similar to a DNF level, and hence that was probably why they were my least favourite. So really, there were only two maps I'd consider pretty weak here.

Hollywood Inferno is full of unncessary invisible walls, it's very disappointing if you save the jetpack from the secret level. Even here, between the parking lot and the path below, which is the most unnecessary one.
http://images.akamai...A5FCD738800383/

[PsychoGoatee]

Just played Prima Arena uncut, cool stuff! For me it doesn't change my ranking of it I think. Here's my ranking of ze maps:

Tour de Nukem > Red Ruckus > Golden Carnage > Mirage Barrage > Bloody Hell > High Times > Prima Arena > Hollywood Inferno

I really like Prima Arena, just those first seven are quite close for me.

[AdrenalinDragon]

PsychoGoatee, on 15 October 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Tour de Nukem > Red Ruckus > Golden Carnage > Mirage Barrage > Bloody Hell > High Times > Prima Arena > Hollywood Inferno

I really like Prima Arena, just those first seven are quite close for me.

So we all agree Hollywood Inferno is the clear stinker of the 5th episode, right?