[Mike Norvak]

A HALLOWEEN THEMED EPISODE


We already discussed about this HERE

Duke Spookem (name by Tea Monster) is gonna be a Halloween themed community episode. The intention is that we can get this done prior to October 28 so we can release it on October 30.

We are gonna see how far we can get regarding new art, weapons and other cool things, it would be cool to have new enemy variants and even new weapons, in the vein of Duke Caribbean and Nuclear Winter, we really need an artist for this...

The episode needs to be done in a modular fashion, I mean that we can start working right away without waiting for anything and then "ensambling" all the elements: new maps, art, code, maybe music, etc. So we can release what we have in case something fails, don't take me wrong and I think this is pretty obvious but it wouldn't hurt to point it, this means that the maps should not be done relying on any new possible feature, so it isn't necessary to wait till a full tileset is implemented (as DT pointed), a map to be finished to start another map, a new feature or other shit that needs to be finished to get the episode working.

The number of maps is gonna depend on the number of mappers volunteering, if there is or not new weapons would be defined by 8-bit artist(s) joining and/or if there is already some hud and sprite art somewhere that fits the episode, that applies for new texture art and enemies, music would rely as well on find/compose/remix pieces to use and if some musicians join.

I myself am going to make a map and maybe, just maybe a new song/remix. Frog said he can help organize the project as well, so I'd be more than glad with his help, DT already said he can help with code

WHAT IS NEEDED

• As many mappers as we can, anyway the new episode shouldn’t exceed 7 maps in my opinon, I even will be done if we get 3 mappers (including me) and everyone makes just one map.
  
• One Coder, I think DT already has volunteered.
  
• One 8-bit artist that can create new art and/or retouch the renders from the modeler: FROG.
  
• One modeler, Tea Monster?

WHAT WOULD BE COOL TO HAVE

*A musician


SPECIFIC CONCEPTS

I’m not sure yet if the maps are gonna be related to each other (somewhat like in the original game) or just be a series of different maps with the same general theme “Halloween”, and if they are gonna follow an specific order or can be played freely starting from a HUB, I’d go for the former. I’m not sure if the episode is gonna verse around a central story or just throwing the maps to the player, DT already pointed a “trick or treat” mechanic”

Trooper Dan, on 03 October 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

The overall theme is Trick or Treat, where Duke goes from one location to the next looking for "a treat" and ends up getting into haunted houses/buildings where he has to fight (could be a willing babe at the end of each map as the treat, or a bowl of candy, or both). There is time to change some enemies/items/weapons for the theme, but mappers could start right away with the normal tileset and the changes can be swapped in later without effecting gameplay too much. MIght be able to get an artist or commission an artist to do a few comic page style images to serve as cutscenes at the beginning and end.

We still need to define this. Anyway If you like how this sounds and are interested in contributing with something keep reading


CONCEPTUAL GUIDELINES (Mostly for mappers.We still need to define an art direction and cohesive visual style)

The modular fashion could definitely also apply to single maps: get shunks finished before starting new areas, so take this in account, (we can and should use prefab pieces just to paste it later as well) all this will prevent having big unfinished parts and limit the size of the maps. Which brings to the next point:

ARCHITECTURE

Spoiler

*The maps must be reduced in size from small to mid-size (from 1600 walls to 2600 walls should be fine) in the case of small ones and (2600 to 4600) in bigger maps, we should stick to small maps though.

*The architecture design needs to be similar to the original maps, the same level of similarity between shrapnel city and the birth. Some more detail wouldn’t hurt but make sure to stay on the limits. So for example if you make a car don’t get obsessive, just make it look like a car!

*The maps need to be done with polymost in mind, not HRP, not polymer, not TROR sorry. We can add polymer lights if we feel like later but don’t rely on that kind of illumination, WE ARE NOT WORLD TOUR!

SHADING AND LIGHTS (some of these should be pretty obvious to experimented mappers)

Spoiler

*If you are gonna use more sectors for something, better it be for shadows in the floor or walls, don’t make the layout too complex so you can make shadows with ease. Put diagonal shadows everywhere!

*Use visibility variations on some sectors, I think most user maps don’t use this feature.

*Wall shading must be there of course.

*Remember this is a Halloween episode, maps are gonna be night themed, so use a lot of contrast between the lighter zones and the darker zones, remember night is contrasted!, a difference of 14 points of shade is just spot on, the effect could be achieved as well with variations in visibility.

*If you are gonna put light switches make them work, we can put a broken one but just if this have something to do with the story of your map (Maybe the switch of this particular room doesn’t work for a mysterious reason, that the player is gonna discover later…)

*Doors opening should let an illuminated room to cast lights on the other side just like every door in the original game that is dividing areas with different shading. I further recommend the use of areas with different shading.

*We can use fog pal on some parts, (like caves or water maybe) I can copy some of the fog colors I’m already using in my WGR2 episode, but don’t rely on new fog pals to give ambientation to the map, use the default >25 pals if you want to, we can replace it later with another cooler ones.

GAMEPLAY AND DESIGN
(The next points are really important if we want to rely on gameplay more than architecture)

Spoiler

As stated before, the maps are gonna revolve around Halloween, nothing over-serious or scary, there are already mods and maps for that, I’m going for a more cheesy style, with some dark tone places and maybe a bit jumpscares (but not one for map of course) it could be gory as well!

*Every map needs to stick to a theme, and exploiting it. We still need to define every map theme, let’s discuss this here.

*”Puzzles” shouldn’t be button combination or keycard hunts, if we are going use any puzzles (which I don’t recommend for the time spent thinking on a good design) we should make something like the rotating gears with a missing tooth, the moving columns, the crane or the shrink ray all these in Toxic Dump, anyway I’d keep puzzles to the minimum if they haven’t anything to do with the story/development of the level and if are difficult to achieve instead of fun.

*Keycards or buttons should be placed at ease of the player, take for example the blue key card in the room above Forbidden in Red light district, it is accessible (either walking of using the jetpack you just get in the previous level) before the player even gets to the blue slot in the demolition company, not backtracking needed. In some cases the card should be visible before being accessible if the layout let this to happen, like in E1L1 spaceport.

*Backtracking is accepted as far as you give multiple routes to go back and I’m not talking just about multiple walking routes but alternative routes using explosive cracks, jetpack, falling through a window/hole, using scuba, exploding walls, etc. you can use a combination of many of these in most cases.

*The same applies for the keycard slots and buttons, put it in a place that it isn’t necessary to backtrack to in the same path always, you can achieve this by making some kind of HUB areas like in Hotel Hell E3L8 or Flooded Zone E3L3 where there are multiple locked entrances of the same color.

*About the items, let’s not make an area of the map impassable without an item/weapon, neither too easy with that item/weapon, because it will break some maps in case we are going for a continuous gameplay instead of weaponless/itemless start. Is easier to add more enemies/tougher ones in case the map gets extremely easy due the amount of ammo, than totally changing gameplay just because the player has already an item in his inventory. Let’s use the items to make the player’s life easier and funnier, not harder.

*Just as a recommendation, place the keycards and buttons in places that makes more or less sense, like the blue keycard in Red light district (hidden in a shelf in the room) and not like the yellow keycard above the destroyed building next to a manhole or in Death Row lying in the floor in an empty area for no reason.

*Secret places should lead to alternative routes, and maybe to ambush enemies, not just dead-end rooms, other secrets should be easy to spot but hard to get to, just like in some original levels.

*The player should visit every part of the level because he feels like it, not because is forced to. We can include areas that aren’t necessary to finish the level but give some advantage.

*Floor over floor is really recommended.

*Enemy types should be placed in areas that makes sense, since this is gonna contain various maps, we can and should use some monsters just in some maps and where they fit, (yeah the regular monsters, we can replace them later easily this way) also reserve some of the tougher for the latest levels.

*I’m not against unreachable scenery to add immersion is better to focus on the playable area, I’d go for making the area feel right.

This is an example of the multiple routes from E1L1

INSPIRATION AND THEMES

Spoiler

Okay, we came to the hardest part, what themes or references we can borrow inspiration from?

Something that definitely comes to my mind is the game Zombies ate my neighbors



It has elements and themes from almost all 50’s and 80’s low budget terror movies. You should definitely watch some parts of the video if you haven’t already played the game.

From that game some themes that came to my mind are:

*Classic American vecindary: those we see in the movies with a central road, lots of trees, backyards and a forest around. This could be the first level. 01:45 32:15

*Castle 13:00 1:24:10

*Factory 23:45

*Stadium attacked by Aliens! 27:10

*Haunted office 36:55

Other themes that I could come up with are:

*A sunken ghost ship (would really like to make it)

*A freakshow circus (would definitely need new art for this)

We definitely need to throw more ideas here.

Who's in?

[brullov]

Mike have not noticed that I take the art so 8bit artist position is closed, I hope Tea Monster joins us so we can create awesome things together. Please, leave a comment here if you are in so I could create a conversation for the team. I will also start creating gui for the mod today.

[MetHy]

There was a freakshow attraction done in Redneck Rampage as well (in Route66 theme park level I think ?). The freakshow thing hasn't been done as a circus though I think, well kinda has in Blood I guess. I like the idea though.
Death Wish for Blood has a great sunken ghost ship map as well.

Just saying it's hard to come up with stuff that hasn't been done already in Build at this point with a theme like this. I guess things don't have to be 100% original though...

The closest to an idea I had, is making a mall that is a reference to Dawn Of The Dead; but again malls are overdone in Build and Duke3D, so I'm really not sure.

Edit : You didn't mention anything regarding enemies and weapons.
If the aim of this is to feel like it could be an official add-on like Caribbean Life, Nuclear Winter or World Tour, ideally it would be nice to have weapon and enemies reskins or at the very least one new weapon and enemy.
Of course, that's ideally speaking, as I wouldn't be able to make any of that.

[jet_nick]

a level could Have A style Similar to this

[Valhalla]

jet_nick, on 04 October 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

a level could Have A style Similar to this

I've seen that screenshot before... Wasn't it a proposed HL2 mod or something?

Anyway, back on topic. I'm down for "attempting" to make a good Halloween map by the target date, worst case scenario it's not up to par or unfinished, and you can use someone else's map that got more development time.

Do you want me to try for a specific theme/location? If not I may take a crack at that idea I had, but it depended kinda heavily on a new enemy and new art, though I could wrangle some current art into something that may work. Maybe make some green drones or something.

[Mike Norvak]

jet_nick, on 04 October 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

a level could Have A style Similar to this

Is the street map, the first one, I'm gonna take it.

[jet_nick]

i' m going to create new enemies like the Pumpkinbrain.

[brullov]

Mike, check PM asap please.

[BoowHow]

This sounds very interesting.

[Fantinaikos]

Some spreaded ideas.

Weapons

Shotgun model could be replaced with a sprite/model of a Remington 12 gauge from Evil Dead.

A Resident Evil looking Rochet Launcher sprite/model it's an appropriate RPG replacement.

Pumpkin bombs as replacement for Pipe Bomb. However that is a little cliché, even for the two goblins from Spiderman, so we could use a classic looking bomb (you know, black, spherical, with the fuse...).

A pulsating brain as replacement for Shrinker.

A Voodo doll as replacemente for Microwave Expander. Unless we want to do from zero, we can Ripping it from Blood. Or just use The Voodo ring from Carribean expansion.

Cursed Skulls as replacement for Laser Tripbomb.

An evil wizard wand as replacement for Freezethrower.

Enemies

One of the enemies that should be in this episode is the Zombie Pigcop from Total Meltdown.

Flying Witches as replacement for Recon patrol cars.

Ghost as replacement for Sentry Drone

Items

All the healing stuff can be replaced with various Halloween candies and chocolates.

An Heretic style Power Tome to replace Steroids.

A pair of famous Springed Eye googles http://skirblog.type...116a6a1e970c-pi for replace Night Vision Goggles.

"Toxic Green Goo" sweet as replacement of Atomic Health.


Various

Secret level can be a famous horror movie/game themed or a complete different festivity, this totally happened in Nightmare Before Christmas.

Even Duke should wear an halloween costume, perhaps something that he believes "terrifying" like a wimpy nerd with braces and tall shoes.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'd like to help with music but I'm not sure what kind of time I have. I'll wait to see how this goes first before committing to anything.

[oasiz]

Interesting idea... One way to make things a bit more fresh would be to hue shift palette, existing stuff could be skewed to have a more autumn look.
I'd love to participate with a map but I've been too damn busy lately

Defining basepal is possible with defines so there shouldn't be any need to overwrite stuff.

[Mike Norvak]

[REQUEST] Can some of the administrators create a secret thread please?

[Fantinaikos]

Mike Norvak, on 04 October 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

[REQUEST] Can some of the administrators create a secret thread please?

It's not strictly necessary that ANY big project is accessible only by an exclusive elitè, sometimes it does not increase competence and cause disaffection.

[Mike Norvak]

So do you think is okay to just work on an open thread and spoil everything mhhh I'm not sure. We still are gonna send a lot of files and possibly use dropbox...

[Merlijn]

Sounds like a very cool idea, and I love the name!

You did add a lot of specific rules for the maps though (regarding secrets, alternative routes, keycards etc.), I understand why but it might scare some mappers off.
As for themes, it could be a cool idea to use more modern horror movies as an inspiration?

For instance, one could be based on "lights out" (enemies only appear when the lights go out). This might be a bit ambitious for such a short term project though.
Another idea: I once based a section of a map on H.P. Lovecraft, might be cool to build a map similar to that (references to Chtulu, the color from space etc.)

[jet_nick]

Merlijn, on 04 October 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

Sounds like a very cool idea, and I love the name!

You did add a lot of specific rules for the maps though (regarding secrets, alternative routes, keycards etc.), I understand why but it might scare some mappers off.
As for themes, it could be a cool idea to use more modern horror movies as an inspiration?

For instance, one could be based on "lights out" (enemies only appear when the lights go out). This might be a bit ambitious for such a short term project though.
Another idea: I once based a section of a map on H.P. Lovecraft, might be cool to build a map similar to that (references to Chtulu, the color from space etc.)

a cycloid emperor with the face of Chtulu as final boss )

[brullov]

oasiz, on 04 October 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

Interesting idea... One way to make things a bit more fresh would be to hue shift palette, existing stuff could be skewed to have a more autumn look.
I'd love to participate with a map but I've been too damn busy lately

Defining basepal is possible with defines so there shouldn't be any need to overwrite stuff.

Well, I like the original pal a lot. I think I can work without tweaks.

[Danukem]

Mike Norvak, on 04 October 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

So do you think is okay to just work on an open thread and spoil everything mhhh I'm not sure. We still are gonna send a lot of files and possibly use dropbox...

When it's time to have serious discussions back-and-forth between developers, it can be distracting to have random people chiming in with suggestions and observations. That's the main reason I would favor having some sort of private group, eventually. It could be done with the PM system, though, it doesn't necessarily need a private subforum. Personally, I don't get too concerned about spoilers. Only the regular duke4.net people are going to see stuff here, and those who don't want to get spoiled can just avoid the thread.

[MetHy]

I say we should use a skype group and google drive. Invite anyone who seriously wants to join in.

[Fantinaikos]

Trooper Dan, on 04 October 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

When it's time to have serious discussions back-and-forth between developers, it can be distracting to have random people chiming in with suggestions and observations. That's the main reason I would favor having some sort of private group, eventually. It could be done with the PM system, though, it doesn't necessarily need a private subforum. Personally, I don't get too concerned about spoilers. Only the regular duke4.net people are going to see stuff here, and those who don't want to get spoiled can just avoid the thread.

Well it also a matter of time, consider that Halloween is picky about the date, 31 October only and doesn't even have a longer period after the main day like Christmas or Easter, not that much time for mapping and other stuff then. But we may well postpone the release.

[jet_nick]

MetHy, on 04 October 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I say we should use a skype group and google drive. Invite anyone who seriously wants to join in.

we can use skype, is easy sharing files

[Danukem]

Fantinaikos, on 04 October 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

Well it also a matter of time, consider that Halloween is picky about the date, 31 October only and doesn't even have a longer period after the main day like Christmas or Easter, not that much time for mapping and other stuff then. But we may well postpone the release.

It is possible to put something decent together quickly, but the consensus has formed that this should be a professional quality release, so I guess it's not realistic to expect a release by Halloween. That's great as long as people are fired up about it and don't put it aside. I'm pretty sure that people would be happy with a quality release any time of year.

@jet_nick: skype kind of sucks for that, file transfer is slow and you have to catch people when they are around, and we live on different continents.

[Fantinaikos]

Quote

@jet_nick: skype kind of sucks for that, file transfer is slow and you have to catch people when they are around, and we live on different continents.

We can't just use Tiny Upload like we did for Duke Forces?

http://tinyupload.com/

I doubt that files will get over the limit of 50MB and the limit of 100 days to stay online should be not a problem.

[brullov]

Please, check you PM and answer asap.

MetHy, on 04 October 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I say we should use a skype group and google drive. Invite anyone who seriously wants to join in.

This is what I am trying to do right now.

[Mike Norvak]

Hey I'm at work right now, gonna reply later.

Just copy paste a post that failed to load wile I was at transport...

Another potential theme for a map could be:

*Cabin in the woods surrounded by a small forest. This should be made like a short version of Hotel Hell in a forest, It should be inspired by the movie of the same name and maybe by some Stranger Things locations.

Talking about it, what about a Demogordon enemy!!???

You see, I don't think we need to go for extremely original maps never seen before in build, but tather making all of them consistent.

[Tea Monster]

You could use Slack or Rocket chat. I was going to make the pumpkin critter, but jet_nicks claimed that so not sure what's happening at the moment.

[brullov]

Tea Monster, on 04 October 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

You could use Slack or Rocket chat. I was going to make the pumpkin critter, but jet_nicks claimed that so not sure what's happening at the moment.

Just check your PM please. We have already created the first dev chat. Thanks.

[brullov]

oasiz, on 04 October 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

Interesting idea... One way to make things a bit more fresh would be to hue shift palette, existing stuff could be skewed to have a more autumn look.
I'd love to participate with a map but I've been too damn busy lately

Defining basepal is possible with defines so there shouldn't be any need to overwrite stuff.

Ok, I lied about the palette. Adding new colors right now, somebody stop me!

[Mike Norvak]

MetHy, on 04 October 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I say we should use a skype group and google drive. Invite anyone who seriously wants to join in.

Could you send me your skype by inbox please?

I'm asuming you are in, right?