[Dan]

If you had to choose one which of the cancelled Duke Nukem games would you have liked to have seen released?

[spessu_sb]

Duke Nukem Forever 2001?

[HiPolyBash]

spessu_sb, on 09 September 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

Duke Nukem Forever 2001?

[xMobilemux]

D-Day aka Man of Valor.

If there was 1 thing I really wanted during my PS2 days, it was Duke.

Plus it was being done by N-Space and I adored Time to Kill & Land of the Babes so I would have loved to see another Duke adventure by them.

[spessu_sb]

HiPolyBash, on 09 September 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Technically it was cancelled in favor of the Duke Nukem: Doom 3, and that was cancelled in favor of Duke Nukem: 2006..

So I take it that I can go and use this as my answer to the topic question

[Lunick]

The only interesting one of those to me is the PSP build of Critical Mass.

[HiPolyBash]

spessu_sb, on 09 September 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

Technically it was cancelled in favor of the Duke Nukem: Doom 3, and that was cancelled in favor of Duke Nukem: 2006..

So I take it that I can go and use this as my answer to the topic question

I agree to a point. I wish DNF 2001 was actually completed.

The other spectacular fuck up was Apogee with the Duke Nukem Trilogy. You give a company a licence to do a trilogy of Duke games and they manage to fuck it up that hard.

[The Albino Ape]

HiPolyBash, on 09 September 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

I agree to a point. I wish DNF 2001 was actually completed.

The other spectacular fuck up was Apogee with the Duke Nukem Trilogy. You give a company a licence to do a trilogy of Duke games and they manage to fuck it up that hard.

I remember getting a PSP solely for those games. What a waste of money.

[Micky C]

Judging by the quality of bombshell, it's hard to say that Mass Destruction would have been that good a game.

Also judging by the overall quality of ROTT, Duke Nukem Reloaded wouldn't have been that good a game. ROTT 2013 was ok for what it was, but a Duke FPS needs to have much more fine-tuned gameplay mechanics, and more distinct level design. A lot of the ROTT levels kind of blended together and you couldn't tell them apart.

[HulkNukem]

ROTT13 was a pretty good indie game made by a team that included amateurs in the game development scene; the quality was really good considering the other drek being released even today.
Comparing it to a AAA release though there's no comparison, though that's not quite fair given the cheap price at the time. The biggest complaints I ever saw about it were no quicksaving (which has been patched in) and bad optimization (can't speak if this ever got better).
Bombshell was just seen as average, their production values really increased above ROTT and the variety of the level art increased. The gameplay was serviceable, but the genre is also a bit of a niche, and it was plagued by the first reveal trailer and the buggy review copies.
Rad Rodgers looks like a step up in every single category, they've really improved in those ~3 years.
I've said before I'd rather them work more in original IPs, but if they made a Duke game now, I can see it being quite decent.
On topic, I honestly don't think I care for any of the cancelled games. I'm curious to hell what Duke Begins would've looked like though.

[hismasterplan]

Was Duke Begins officially cancelled?

[HiPolyBash]

Micky C, on 09 September 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

Judging by the quality of bombshell, it's hard to say that Mass Destruction would have been that good a game.

Also judging by the overall quality of ROTT, Duke Nukem Reloaded wouldn't have been that good a game. ROTT 2013 was ok for what it was, but a Duke FPS needs to have much more fine-tuned gameplay mechanics, and more distinct level design. A lot of the ROTT levels kind of blended together and you couldn't tell them apart.

That comparison is pretty far off. Bombshell was the rushed product of trying to get something out after retooling it twice because of the lawsuit then the reception to their rushed reskin and Rise of the Triad was worked on for free and had less than a year to be completed due to Apogees deadlines.

You can't really expect an amateur studio to deliver a finely tuned AAA quality game when they've got a budget of zero and deadlines enforced on them. Rad Rodgers quality and character wise looks better than anything else they've done to date probably due to actually having time to work on it. Their Kickstarter says the first episode has been in development for about a year when the entirety of Rise of the Triad was completed within a year.

A similar comparison would be looking at a game developer and comparing their output when they first started off with a half dozen people and no money to a publisher backed AAA title with a massive team and saying 'this upcoming game will suck ass because their zero budget learning experience worked on by amateurs was average'.

[Mr. Tibbs]

HulkNukem, on 09 September 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

On topic, I honestly don't think I care for any of the cancelled games. I'm curious to hell what Duke Begins would've looked like though.

I really want to know, too. It's crazy that at one time, Take Two was looking at releasing to Duke games basically back-to-back, then for whatever reason, was like "nah," and withdrew their support from both projects. According to the 2009 court documents, development on Duke Begins started in 2007 and, like DNF, was slated to release in mid-2010. It was cancelled in April 2009 by Take Two, reportedly without consultation with 3DR, just a month before 3DR had to lay off their internal development team over lack of funds.

It's difficult to know whether the game was canned out of power play for Take Two to own the Duke IP (which 3DR claimed), lack of progress, fears they were betting too much on Duke, or concerns that Gearbox's development bandwidth would be better served working on Borderlands, which had been unveiled in 2007 and recently under went a radical art change, and was also published by Take Two.

[Micky C]

HulkNukem, on 09 September 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

ROTT13 was a pretty good indie game made by a team that included amateurs in the game development scene; the quality was really good considering the other drek being released even today.

Yeah but ROTT has arguably some of the simplest gameplay ever. Limited enemy types with basic AI, a roster of weapons specifically intended to be over the top thereby removing the need for weapon balancing. Level design that basically consisted of clearing rooms of enemies. Among games to reboot, it's one of the harder ones to mess up. The platforming was pretty terrible, especially considering there's instant death if you fall in most of them.

HiPolyBash, on 09 September 2016 - 10:03 PM, said:

That comparison is pretty far off. Bombshell was the rushed product of trying to get something out after retooling it twice because of the lawsuit then the reception to their rushed reskin and Rise of the Triad was worked on for free and had less than a year to be completed due to Apogees deadlines.

You can't really expect an amateur studio to deliver a finely tuned AAA quality game when they've got a budget of zero and deadlines enforced on them. Rad Rodgers quality and character wise looks better than anything else they've done to date probably due to actually having time to work on it. Their Kickstarter says the first episode has been in development for about a year when the entirety of Rise of the Triad was completed within a year.

A similar comparison would be looking at a game developer and comparing their output when they first started off with a half dozen people and no money to a publisher backed AAA title with a massive team and saying 'this upcoming game will suck ass because their zero budget learning experience worked on by amateurs was average'.

Oh, and I suppose they were being paid to work on Duke Nukem Reloaded? I'm not sure whether they were working on it full time for free, or if they were doing it in spare time, but either way the result would have felt at least somewhat rushed and buggy.

As for Bombshell, the game was extremely buggy on release. Sure, it might have been slightly better if they had some more time freed up from not having to retool it, but it probably would have ended up with a similar set of bugs regardless. Surely the tweaks from Duke -> 1st trailer bombshell -> current bombshell would have been mostly cosmetic. All the original gameplay issues would almost certainly have been present for the Duke version.

Don't forget that they could have held off on the release and polished it up/fixed bugs.Yes I know they delayed it once, and that time is money, but I think we've seen that letting all the reviewers look at a version of the game that is unpolished and buggy is exponentially worse in the long run than putting in a bit of extra time and money at the start.

And don't forget that Interceptor was out of touch enough to come up with that terrible original bombshell design in the first place. Who knows what kind of horrible decisions they might have made with the Duke version.
I do agree that they're quickly improving though. It's just a shame that most of this improvement had to occur this late, after all the damage has occurred to 3DR's reputation.

[EvilEmperorZoRG {GR}]

Either Duke Nukem Forever 1998 or 2001 version... I really hope one day they will be released as a special bonus, maybe with a new DN game. I really don't understand why they can't relase them. DNF is already 5 years old and nothing will damage sales anymore. Gearbox can gain more respect from fans if they just release the cancelled DNF versions even if it is a bonus for a game you have to pay (DN3D World Tour for example). I'm sure it could boost World Tour sales also.

[xMobilemux]

Was Duke Begins even real?

I thought it was just a rumor that sprung during the transfer of DNF and the Duke IP from 3DR to Gearbox.

[Mr. Tibbs]

xMobilemux, on 10 September 2016 - 03:03 AM, said:

Was Duke Begins even real?

I thought it was just a rumor that sprung during the transfer of DNF and the Duke IP from 3DR to Gearbox.

It was mentioned in the court fillings of 3D Realms counterclaim against Take Two.

Quote

While Take-Two admits that the development of Duke Begins "has for the time being been halted," the company denies that the game has been cancelled, and argues that 3D Realms did not need to be consulted regarding this change to the schedule.

Quote

Under the 2007 Agreement, any modification to the development schedule for the Duke Begins game, following Final Concept Approval (as defined in the 2007 Agreement), is permitted without Apogee's consent provided that both 2K Games and Gearbox (as defined in the 2007 Agreement) consent to the change.

Quote

Take-Two also disputed 3D Realms' claim that Duke Begins was originally due by mid-2010, and further denied that its halted development "has materially harmed Apogee and/or will necessarily delay the commercial release of the Duke Begins game."

[Mark]

Micky C, on 09 September 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

Also judging by the overall quality of ROTT, Duke Nukem Reloaded wouldn't have been that good a game. ROTT 2013 was ok for what it was, but a Duke FPS needs to have much more fine-tuned gameplay mechanics, and more distinct level design. A lot of the ROTT levels kind of blended together and you couldn't tell them apart.

I don't agree. I think the company would have been in a different mindset for taking on a Duke project than ROTT and it would have influenced decisions made concerning looks and gameplay. I wouldn't automatically group the 2 games together. Just my opinion.

[deuxsonic]

EvilEmperorZoRG {GR}, on 10 September 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

Either Duke Nukem Forever 1998 or 2001 version... I really hope one day they will be released as a special bonus, maybe with a new DN game. I really don't understand why they can't relase them. DNF is already 5 years old and nothing will damage sales anymore. Gearbox can gain more respect from fans if they just release the cancelled DNF versions even if it is a bonus for a game you have to pay (DN3D World Tour for example). I'm sure it could boost World Tour sales also.

The 1998 version is literally just what you see in the trailer. The 2001 version was in development for longer so they likely got more done that time.

[----]

Reloaded.

[HiPolyBash]

Micky C, on 10 September 2016 - 01:09 AM, said:

Oh, and I suppose they were being paid to work on Duke Nukem Reloaded?

Point being they wouldn't have been constrained by deadlines from publishers, and the damage to 3D Realms reputation was done well before Interceptor became involved.

[EvilEmperorZoRG {GR}]

deuxsonic, on 10 September 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

The 1998 version is literally just what you see in the trailer. The 2001 version was in development for longer so they likely got more done that time.

Whatever they have anyway. If they add DNF unfinished old versions I'm sure it could boost DN3D World Tour sales.

If Duke Nukem 3D Megaton Edition steamspy is correct (and if half of those who bought it are old DN fans) the sales could be at least similiar. Hell I would pay 50$ if those were included : P
http://steamspy.com/app/225140

The new episode just doesn't seem enough motivation to spent my money when I own Megaton Edition.

Anyway to stay on topic lol... Either what they had from 1998 or the 2001 version. Also the one we saw in Jace Hall show seemed much better than the final game (even though I liked DNF).

[spessu_sb]

EvilEmperorZoRG {GR}, on 10 September 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Anyway to stay on topic lol... Either what they had from 1998 or the 2001 version. Also the one we saw in Jace Hall show seemed much better than the final game (even though I liked DNF).

It was better in someways. Like it had full weaponwheel so you could carry it all, EGO based health (kill a pigcop with rpg and get more ego than if you do with just shotgunning him) better than system which ended up being used in the final version, full regen health.

Also, someone who is more experienced on this territory.. Did it also have less linear level design, or was that already at the point where "cutting is shipping" had been done?

[EvilEmperorZoRG {GR}]

spessu_sb, on 10 September 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

It was better in someways. Like it had full weaponwheel so you could carry it all, EGO based health (kill a pigcop with rpg and get more ego than if you do with just shotgunning him) better than system which ended up being used in the final version, full regen health.

Also, someone who is more experienced on this territory.. Did it also have less linear level design, or was that already at the point where "cutting is shipping" had been done?

Seemed pretty much the same levels like when that guy screams for help and gets killed by a pipebomb.

[deuxsonic]

spessu_sb, on 10 September 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

It was better in someways. Like it had full weaponwheel so you could carry it all, EGO based health (kill a pigcop with rpg and get more ego than if you do with just shotgunning him) better than system which ended up being used in the final version, full regen health.

Also, someone who is more experienced on this territory.. Did it also have less linear level design, or was that already at the point where "cutting is shipping" had been done?

There's a topic about this. It's been confirmed that the game was always linear.

[Kathy]

Duke Nukem Forever wasn't cancelled and came out in 2009.

[Zummone]

Kathy, on 10 September 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

Duke Nukem Forever wasn't cancelled and came out in 2009.

I know you probably meant 2011, but ehh...

Since the thread title is not entirely the same as what Dan posted I'll say I wasn't even aware of a PSP Time to Kill like title in the works, would have been pretty comfy, so I happily vote that. But the one I would have generally liked see released is HTTKC, for more than a couple reasons, even though I wasn't the intended target.

[Kathy]

Damn, I meant 2011 of course. And, yeah, out of those I only somehow care about HTTKC. And maybe DNF-sidescroller.

[Daedolon]

You guys should play Alien Rampage, it's good enough as is.

[Steveeeie]

A Duke 3D remake that isn't made by interceptor.