Duke4.net Forums: Do you think DNF was always linear? - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

Hide message Show message
Welcome to the Duke4.net Forums!

Register an account now to get access to all board features. After you've registered and logged in, you'll be able to create topics, post replies, send and receive private messages, disable the viewing of ads and more!

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Do you think DNF was always linear?

#1

One huge complaint among many for Duke Nukem Forever consists of the game being too linear. I beg the question, do you think the DNF 1997-2001 versions were always going to be a linear experience? From the trailers, it seems a bit on rails at times.
0

User is offline   PsychoGoatee 

  • 394

#2

View PostFrozenParticle, on 02 September 2016 - 09:18 PM, said:

One huge complaint among many for Duke Nukem Forever consists of the game being too linear. I beg the question, do you think the DNF 1997-2001 versions were always going to be a linear experience? From the trailers, it seems a bit on rails at times.


I jposted on this a few minutes ago, so I'll put it here too in case this topic takes off more.

The vibe I get from that 2001 trailer, while awesome, is Duke goes Half-Life. Which in some ways is what we got, only with a more cartoony/comedic tone. That game would've been linear with lots of scripted encounters. The trailer itself is entirely scripted, and is definitely inspired by and going for the Half-Life style which was taking the industry by storm at the time. I'd still love that game, but for me the perfect Duke game would be a little different.

Not saying it would've been a HL clone or anything, and it would've had those arcadey vehicle segments and stuff that HL1 didn't have. But it does seem to be going for the "modern" for 2001 Half-Life style of going from scripted set piece to scripted set piece. But it may've been a little more open than what we got.
0

#3

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 02 September 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

I jposted on this a few minutes ago, so I'll put it here too in case this topic takes off more.

The vibe I get from that 2001 trailer, while awesome, is Duke goes Half-Life. Which in some ways is what we got, only with a more cartoony/comedic tone. That game would've been linear with lots of scripted encounters. The trailer itself is entirely scripted, and is definitely inspired by and going for the Half-Life style which was taking the industry by storm at the time. I'd still love that game, but for me the perfect Duke game would be a little different.

Not saying it would've been a HL clone or anything, and it would've had those arcadey vehicle segments and stuff that HL1 didn't have. But it does seem to be going for the "modern" for 2001 Half-Life style of going from scripted set piece to scripted set piece. But it may've been a little more open than what we got.

I agree. I feel like DNF was always going to be more story based and linear, that's just what they wanted at the time: a Half-Life type game with larger than life cinematics. I don't mind the current version of Duke Nukem Forever, it's playable and I'd say it's okay. I wish in future Duke installments (hopefully Duke 5) that they just make it feel like Duke 3D more.
0

User is offline   fuegerstef 

  • 514

#4

I don't have problems with linearity and story as long as the levels aren't faucets/corridors and the story scenes are between levels/chapters.

After Hollywood Holocaust Duke rides a broken Elevator down to Red Light District. A cutscene would have worked between those levels.

Gameplay and tastes aside: The first level of Crysis (as an example) is linear too. But at the part when the sun rises it is completely up to the player how he reaches point B (by feet, underwater, by boat, by car, etc ... and you can take several paths, go back as you want as no parts of the level are cut off with a screpted scene or so). And at the end of that level the boat cutscene runs which leads to the next level/chapter.

A few free casual games by me: http://gamejolt.com/...uegerstef/2615/

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 03 September 2016 - 12:52 AM

0

User is offline   deuxsonic 

  • 274

#5

What do you consider linear? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. allows you to wander over a huge amount of area and do certain objectives in the order of your choice, but there are certain points that to progress must be completed so it is still linear. When I try to think of a non-linear FPS I really can't think of any, because if you have a storyline and an ending then in some respect you still have to force the player into certain linear points, milestones to finishing the game. I guess like a sandbox kind of FPS where the game never actually ends and you can just do whatever, whenever, maybe like Grand Theft Auto V or Call of Pripyat where if you decline to leave at the end, the game enters kind of a sandbox mode where you can keep going around doing things since at that point everything has been made available.

If in Crysis you have to reach point B, then that itself is linear and being able to do whatever up to reaching the point is sort of the illusion of not being pushed along a path. I like to think of Half-Life 2 and the way you could travel between maps and the maps were almost all joined by hallways with a corner even if it opened into an expanse at some point for a boss battle, for example. It's sort of a trap I guess because in having a story you also make the game linear because there's really no way to make a game with infinite endings based on every little thing you did. So I guess it's like a linear continuum, where unless you disregard most of the story, it is always linear to some degree but different games have slightly different ways of making things seem more open even when they're really not. Even in sandbox games, you still hit an invisible wall or a fence or something preventing you from going anywhere since there's a limit to how much content a game can actually have.
0

User is offline   fuegerstef 

  • 514

#6

View Postdeuxsonic, on 03 September 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

If in Crysis you have to reach point B, then that itself is linear and being able to do whatever up to reaching the point is sort of the illusion of not being pushed along a path.



Exactly. That's why I pointed out the difference between linearity and corridor/faucet levels. Almost any FPS is linear. But in a lot of games youre aren't forced through a narrow corridor. You can explore, choose what way to go, etc ... Oh, and forced backtracking (to for example get a key near the start of the level that you can only get after getting another key) isn't necesaary for me.

A few free casual games by me: http://gamejolt.com/...uegerstef/2615/

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 03 September 2016 - 04:17 AM

0

User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor
  • 3,241

#7

View PostFrozenParticle, on 02 September 2016 - 09:18 PM, said:

One huge complaint among many for Duke Nukem Forever consists of the game being too linear. I beg the question, do you think the DNF 1997-2001 versions were always going to be a linear experience? From the trailers, it seems a bit on rails at times.


I remember one of the developers saying that there were more side-areas to explore in the game before Gearbox got hold of it, that were likely cut in order to improve performance on the consoles. I can't remember who said it or when though.

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!
1

User is offline   Mr. Tibbs 

  • 1,032

#8

View PostMicky C, on 03 September 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

I remember one of the developers saying that there were more side-areas to explore in the game before Gearbox got hold of it, that were likely cut in order to improve performance on the consoles. I can't remember who said it or when though.

Eskimo Spy (Andrew Baker) over at Shacknews. The levels had to be cut into discrete sections separated by loading screens to accommodate the consoles, too.
0

User is offline   HiPolyBash 

  • 344

#9

Holy shit some of his Shacknews posts are fucking depressing: :mellow:

Posted Image
0

User is offline   Altered Reality 

  • 120

#10

View PostMicky C, on 03 September 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

I remember one of the developers saying that there were more side-areas to explore in the game before Gearbox got hold of it, that were likely cut in order to improve performance on the consoles. I can't remember who said it or when though.

It was actually George who decided to cut off explorable areas, to improve frame rate on the Xbox 360. In addition, the Vegas strip level in the 2001 iteration was actually supposed to be a sandbox level.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
0

User is offline   Shaq Fu 

  • 109

#11

View PostHiPolyBash, on 03 September 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

Holy shit some of his Shacknews posts are fucking depressing: :mellow:

Posted Image


Damn
0

User is offline   Hool 

  • 162

#12

View PostFrozenParticle, on 02 September 2016 - 09:18 PM, said:

One huge complaint among many for Duke Nukem Forever consists of the game being too linear. I beg the question, do you think the DNF 1997-2001 versions were always going to be a linear experience? From the trailers, it seems a bit on rails at times.


Fresch from 3D Realms commented here once that the 2001 version had a sort of "hub world" - being Las Vegas - and that you'd travel to different areas on your Motorbike. These would be broken up with very short loading screens like the original Half Life. It sort of "open world" to an extent - but nothing like GTA where you can go where you please.
1

User is offline   ErgoTheChappy 

  • 1,934

#13

View PostHiPolyBash, on 03 September 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

Holy shit some of his Shacknews posts are fucking depressing: :mellow:

Oy... Andrew.

View PostHool, on 03 September 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

Fresch from 3D Realms commented here once that the 2001 version had a sort of "hub world" - being Las Vegas - and that you'd travel to different areas on your Motorbike. These would be broken up with very short loading screens like the original Half Life. It sort of "open world" to an extent - but nothing like GTA where you can go where you please.

No... it was always linear in terms of player experience. There wasn't ever any central location you kept going back to.

Vegas was just the focal point of the invasion conceptually and thus everything spread out from Vegas. But level flow was always linear.
6

User is offline   Mr. Tibbs 

  • 1,032

#14

View PostHiPolyBash, on 03 September 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

Holy shit some of his Shacknews posts are fucking depressing: :mellow:

He ended up being fired from Triptych Games for making this innocuous statement about Borderlands 2 DLC: "Well, hey, look what I've been working on for the last year or so." Yep, you read that right. That's all he said. Classy move, Triptych/Gearbox! Keep in mind, this is someone who worked on Duke for free for months, so I would hate to see how they treat their enemies.

Here he is talking about the levels being cut up.

Quote

That engine ran on consoles like a fat guy up Everest. Some levels were cut into up to four parts (why many seemed oddly short) and still level loading times were terrible. Dead ends, side routes, any excess gameplay space that could be cut, was cut. :(

0

User is offline   HiPolyBash 

  • 344

#15

View PostMr. Tibbs, on 03 September 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

He ended up being fired from Triptych Games for making this innocuous statement about Borderlands 2 DLC: "Well, hey, look what I've been working on for the last year or so." Yep, you read that right. That's all he said. Classy move, Triptych/Gearbox! Keep in mind, this is someone who worked on Duke for free for months, so I would hate to see how they treat their enemies.

Gearbox/Randy really are the ultimate ass-suckers.
1

User is offline   Flesh420 

  • 16

#16

View PostHiPolyBash, on 03 September 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

Gearbox/Randy really are the ultimate ass-suckers.


Randy's one of those rare people you just want to punch. Something about his face screams "hit me."
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks are property of their respective owners and all comments are owned by their posters. Yes, our forum uses cookies. © 2004-2017 Duke4.net and Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options