[HulkNukem]

MusicallyInspired, on 24 September 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

Why do people use controllers or console builds at all for retro FPS gameplay videos? That's retarded. My original point still stands. I wouldn't dare let this out into the public without putting way more effort into making it look good by getting better at it. It just looks like they turned it on and recorded the very first playthrough they did.

For something like the original Quake or Unreal, I agree. For stuff like Doom or Duke3D, however, I think either way is perfectly viable. There isn't as much demand for precise pixel perfect twitch aiming, even less so for the original Doom with its lack of vertical aiming, afterall a number of players used arrows to move and aim.
The only big issue is selecting weapons; you can easily pull out any of them at any point on PC using the number keys, however on console you either have to switch through them in order until you get what you want or if the port allows it, putting certain weapons on favorites (so D-pad left is always rocket launcher, for instance).

The problem with these videos isn't that they are recorded using a console/controller, instead they are recorded with mediocre players.

[NightFright]

Tea Monster, on 24 September 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

I can see where they edited the sides of the HUD sprite to add on the extended sides .

Fox made a widescreen HUD that easily beats this one. They didn't even try to finish the rounded shapes on the sides which are clearly pointing down. It doesn't make any sense at all the way they did it.

[Ronin]

Laughing at some reactions to the trailer on Youtube.

[PsychoGoatee]

At least the most upvoted one there is the most sensible one.

[Robert Stever]

HulkNukem, on 24 September 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

For something like the original Quake or Unreal, I agree. For stuff like Doom or Duke3D, however, I think either way is perfectly viable. There isn't as much demand for precise pixel perfect twitch aiming, even less so for the original Doom with its lack of vertical aiming, afterall a number of players used arrows to move and aim.
The only big issue is selecting weapons; you can easily pull out any of them at any point on PC using the number keys, however on console you either have to switch through them in order until you get what you want or if the port allows it, putting certain weapons on favorites (so D-pad left is always rocket launcher, for instance).

The problem with these videos isn't that they are recorded using a console/controller, instead they are recorded with mediocre players.

Just remember the best controller player in FPS games is only mediocre when pitted against Keyboard and Mouse. M$ tried pitting xbox vs PC players on xbox live for Halo around a decade ago. Needless to say none of the console players made the cut.

[zykov eddy]

MetHy, on 24 September 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

What's up with the chaingun in these two screenshots?

The last one looks terrible, it's like a user map from 1997 with some cheap effects added. If this is the best part of the level, I'm afraid to see the rest.
Also, can't stand those screaming noises Duke makes.

[HulkNukem]

Robert Stever, on 24 September 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Just remember the best controller player in FPS games is only mediocre when pitted against Keyboard and Mouse. M$ tried pitting xbox vs PC players on xbox live for Halo around a decade ago. Needless to say none of the console players made the cut.

So a completely competent player using a controller will always lose against a player of any skill level using a mouse and keyboard?
I've played several PC games with a controller online and usually end up in the top 3 of the leaderboards; I was doing just that when the new Doom came out, and I don't consider myself an amazing player. I would stay in the same position when I used k/m
Individual player skill > Control method
Like I said in that same post though, games like Quake or Counter Strike lend themselves to be played with a keyboard and mouse, sniper sections in games are usually more of a chore with a joystick; however completely writing off controllers is just foolish.

[brullov]

Ok. This gameplay beats mine. You win.

[zykov eddy]

The biggest problem with the maps is the shading, in my opinion. Even the programmed polymer shading feature can't save this one from looking awful.

Some of the pilymer effects are so bright, it hurts my eyes, like this one:



I have really mixed feelings about the maps. Half of stuff I've seen looks good enough (some of the designs are pretty cool, some textures look professional, nice shading effects), others look unfinished at best.

My "favorite" is this one, I don't think that even good shading can save it.

[Tea Monster]

Looks like someone imported a load of 'Heretic' textures.

[PsychoGoatee]

Maybe England just looks like the game Heretic, but I actually got that vibe too.

[X-Vector]

http://www.shakespearesglobe.com

Not a terrific likeness, though.

[MetHy]

zykov eddy, on 24 September 2016 - 03:41 PM, said:

The last one looks terrible, it's like a user map from 1997 with some cheap effects added. If this is the best part of the level, I'm afraid to see the rest.
Also, can't stand those screaming noises Duke makes.

zykov eddy, on 24 September 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

The biggest problem with the maps is the shading, in my opinion. Even the programmed polymer shading feature can't save this one from looking awful.

Some of the pilymer effects are so bright, it hurts my eyes, like this one:

I have really mixed feelings about the maps. Half of stuff I've seen looks good enough (some of the designs are pretty cool, some textures look professional, nice shading effects), others look unfinished at best.

My "favorite" is this one, I don't think that even good shading can save it.

Yeah, and what I hate the most is when the lightsources are added very cheaply. For instance an electricity based light source coming from a brick pillar, or even directly from a rock wall (3rd screenshot on Steam store page).dd
So not only it looks like they didn't give a fuck with wall/sector shading because "dynamic lights", but those lights weren't included in the best of ways.

Doe anyone know how to make pro mid 90's FPS level design anymore?!

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Merlijn]

The Amsterdam map looks pretty cool. Having lived there myself for a few years, I have to say the first outdoor location is a solid DN3D version of a typical Amsterdam street/canal.
Especially little touches, like the abundance of bikes everywhere and the tour boat in the canal.

I do agree with most criticism though. Some of the stuff just seems rushed and half assed, especially that "new" enemy. But I think most of the maps will be good.

As an aside, it's kinda funny that they're pitching the maps as "the biggest maps in Duke3D ever".
Our community knows there are biggers mods and maps out there for free.
And I don't think a casual gamer would be impressed by a 20 year old game, no matter how big the new maps are.

[Valhalla]

Merlijn, on 25 September 2016 - 04:02 AM, said:

The Amsterdam map looks pretty cool. Having lived there myself for a few years, I have to say the first outdoor location is a solid DN3D version of a typical Amsterdam street/canal.
Especially little touches, like the abundance of bikes everywhere and the tour boat in the canal.

I do agree with most criticism though. Some of the stuff just seems rushed and half assed, especially that "new" enemy. But I think most of the maps will be good.

As an aside, it's kinda funny that they're pitching the maps as "the biggest maps in Duke3D ever".
Our community knows there are biggers mods and maps out there for free.
And I don't think a casual gamer would be impressed by a 20 year old game, no matter how big the new maps are.

Yeah, I saw a playthrough of the first two levels, they weren't very long/big compared to most of the bigger usermaps, but I suppose compared to the original levels they seemed longer. (Or at least more detailed.) But keep in mind the devs haven't had 15ish years to refine their mapping skills.

Still, any new duke nukem 3d content all this time later is a welcome addition to me, just as long as that touched-up build engine isn't badly done. (Which given it's from the same people who did colonial marines, I seriously worry about.) I just want it for a better engine really, eduke suffers from poor performance with polymer even on my i7 and gtx1080, if I could have eduke32 but with butter smooth performance while retaining all the original duke nukem 3d quality, that would be worth the $20 to me alone. Also working multiplayer, even megaton had very poor multiplayer code. (Restricted to LANs and short distance play only because of latency.)

[MrSet]

Valhalla, on 25 September 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Also working multiplayer, even megaton had very poor multiplayer code. (Restricted to LANs and short distance play only because of latency.)

Yes, a better netcode or the DREAM : Client / Server.

[Lunick]

If you're expecting there to be better multiplayer after seeing all the other dodgy things Nerve/Gearbox has done on this port then you're gonna have a bad time.

I have to wonder how easy the lights will be placable in the new editor (I'm assuming they won't bundle Mapster32). Gearbox would want people uploading maps to the Workshop and have the new lights attached to them too.

[Danukem]

Lunick, on 25 September 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

If you're expecting there to be better multiplayer after seeing all the other dodgy things Nerve/Gearbox has done on this port then you're gonna have a bad time.

Count me as one of those who expects multiplayer to be pretty good. The dodginess we have seen has to do with sloppy art and some poor choices on integrating new textures and features into the build engine. There's no reason to believe that the netcode is poor.

[necroslut]

Lunick, on 25 September 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

If you're expecting there to be better multiplayer after seeing all the other dodgy things Nerve/Gearbox has done on this port then you're gonna have a bad time.

I have to wonder how easy the lights will be placable in the new editor (I'm assuming they won't bundle Mapster32). Gearbox would want people uploading maps to the Workshop and have the new lights attached to them too.

Maybe I misunderstood, but didn TX say they were the same as Polymer lights as far as Mapster was concerned? I don't have a quote, but that's how I remember it.

[Kyanos]

The fact they aren't mentioning any improvement to the net code worries me. I think we will get stuck with the same old sync system.

Is there any video of dukematch in world tour yet?

[TerminX]

I wouldn't expect there to be a new editor, as the new maps were all made with Mapster32.

[Lunick]

By "new editor" I meant whatever they ship with World Tour, assuming they do include one.

[MusicallyInspired]

They couldn't supply that unless they paid royalties, could they? And since they were avoiding that by starting from scratch with the source...

[Jimmy]

Mike Norvak, on 22 September 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

What everyone seems to forget is that the comunity has been mapping and coding "uninterruptedly" for the last 20 years so the experience and learning developed by many people in that time is worth considering, even if great maps and mods came few time after the original release they weren't created with a strict deadline and commercial pushed interest.

It's not so much about the maps, because they have been doing level design in some capacity ever since even if they didn't touch Duke3D. The art and coding is amateur at best. If you got experienced Doom modders for example to work on Duke3D, there would be a learning curve indeed, but they have experience with retro games and would output a better product.

Daedolon, on 23 September 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

I'm starting to become convinced you actually really do hate life.

Why not?

Tea Monster, on 23 September 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Supposedly, from what I've heard, there was talk of making a final update to DN3D with some of the ROR updates that made it into Shadow Warrior. This never saw the light of day.

I don't suppose for a minute that any of that was put into World Tour?

Not much of that patch (referred to as version 1.7 in some places) was ever done. Dirk Jones converted some of the sprites to voxels, and I think some scraps were left in the source, but that was about it. It was really just pre-DNF testing.

Spoiler

[MetHy]

Valhalla, on 25 September 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Yeah, I saw a playthrough of the first two levels,

Do you have a video link to the 2Nd level being played?

[Micky C]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 25 September 2016 - 10:36 PM, said:

It's not so much about the maps, because they have been doing level design in some capacity ever since even if they didn't touch Duke3D.

Hasn't Levelord been retired for many years?

[Lunick]

MetHy, on 26 September 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

Do you have a video link to the 2Nd level being played?

I haven't seen any gameplay of any other new levels except High Times.

They changed 3D Realms time to Duke's Time too...

[MusicallyInspired]

This makes me wonder if they've removed the 3DR logo at the beginning as well.

[Fox]

They are probably not allowed to use the 3DRealms logo.

[Daedolon]

What about on Movie Set?