[Paul B]

Throwing this out there, I have partially started on a new map that has a very basic principal. Create a new classic level that has a similar concept to the half pipe in 16-special-stage of Sonic The Hedge Hog 2, except Duke's version. Now to set the record straight I'm the furthest thing from a Sonic fan. I hardly know anything about the game except for the half pipe stage with the catchy music and coins. To keep to the theme I was planning on including this music along with the map.



Basically, Duke would start the map weapon less in a crate and behind him is the Cycloid Emperor who chases Duke down an alley. The cityscape would be the backdrop for the level that would be linear. I have created some sprite assets that can be used throughout the map. I like the idea of keeping the assets familiar and repetitive like a cheesy old school console game.

Duke would eventually pick up weapons and ammo as he runs but it would not be enough or intended to kill the Emperor. The idea would be to shoot spawning aliens along the way as Duke progresses forward with the Emperor chasing close behind. Duke would get special weapons like a pistol, freezer and shrinker for assisting with puzzles. I would want the ammo and health to be laid out like the coins in the Sonic level. Easy to get. The idea behind this map is to keep the pace moving forward. Steroids can be used to make impossible jumps & Keycards used to unlock items or trigger doors. While Duke runs down the alley there would be map puzzles, earthquakes & explosions causing scenery damage which would be intended to slow Duke's progress. The Emperor would run along either side of the Alley depending on which side the emperor chooses to go. At some point Duke will hit what appears to be a dead end or two, With the help of the Emperor's rockets they could be used to blow a hole in a building to allow for further progress.

I figure the map can be broken into sections and each person could be responsible for creating their own section(s), (action or puzzle section(s)) following the same template and theme. Once Duke reaches a certain point the map would end like a finish line. The map could be used for time trials etc… This is all a theory and I really haven't tested the boundaries of this idea. Just curious to know if there are any takers interested in such a community build project?

I know it's difficult for people to find time to sit down and create a new map from scratch as we all have real life commitments which take priority. Coming up with this map idea would keep the building to a minimum for any one person.

I'll post a beta template map for people to look at once I've gotten a bit further myself. The map will be a concept map and will be open for discussion. If all works out well we can make additional maps with different themes, space, tech, alien etc..

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[High Treason]

In my mind, I see something like the special stages in Sonic 3D on the Mega Drive, at least in mechanics (The Saturn and PC versions are more like Sonic 2).


What I mean by that, is that perhaps Duke should be locked running at a set speed and bearing, the player can move sideways and influence the speed a little, probably even jump or crouch. It would be fairly easy to code so that the CE can't be outrun more than a certain level and, as a novel idea, enemies could be made to never go out of range in front of the player as well as being held at a certain distance so as not to get left behind. I probably only think this because I used similar things in my abandoned side scroller stuff to stop enemies walking off the side of the path and to control the 'dynamic' camera.

[Hendricks266]

I love creative ideas like this. If you release the mod with the Special Stage music intact you'll be a legend in my book. I shouldn't be making any commitments right now, but let me know if EDuke32 or Mapster32 gets in the way of something.

I enjoyed the concept of a Doom wad called Super Sonic Doom which tried bringing Sonic-inspired gameplay into Doom. I've been planning on iterating on this idea myself but "build a game design portfolio" doesn't have quite the same urgency as "do well in school" and the million other things I'm doing.

[Paul B]

High Treason, on 18 July 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

In my mind, I see something like the special stages in Sonic 3D on the Mega Drive, at least in mechanics (The Saturn and PC versions are more like Sonic 2).


What I mean by that, is that perhaps Duke should be locked running at a set speed and bearing, the player can move sideways and influence the speed a little, probably even jump or crouch. It would be fairly easy to code so that the CE can't be outrun more than a certain level and, as a novel idea, enemies could be made to never go out of range in front of the player as well as being held at a certain distance so as not to get left behind. I probably only think this because I used similar things in my abandoned side scroller stuff to stop enemies walking off the side of the path and to control the 'dynamic' camera.

Yea that's exactly what I am trying to achieve in terms of the mechanics that would be great. Definitely like the idea of keeping the AI planted and not having Duke out run the Cycloid Emperor. Also I had envisioned sprite fire escapes that could be shot to drop items down to Duke as well. The more I think about this the more I realize that there probably has to be some type of CON adjustments made to provide the game environment we are shooting for. Unfortunately that isn't my strong suit.

[High Treason]

I can't work on much at the moment as I am moving home, but I may play with CON in my spare time. Haven't used it in a long time, so it may take me a while to get the hang of it again. I kind of know how to lay the whole thing out though and the ability to hijack most things in events (with commands like ifactor) makes things much faster than they used to be back when you had to modify the existing actor code.

[Paul B]

High Treason, on 18 July 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

I can't work on much at the moment as I am moving home, but I may play with CON in my spare time. Haven't used it in a long time, so it may take me a while to get the hang of it again. I kind of know how to lay the whole thing out though and the ability to hijack most things in events (with commands like ifactor) makes things much faster than they used to be back when you had to modify the existing actor code.

Sounds Great HT. I'm not in any kind of a rush for a release. Now if there are any creative mappers that would be willing to do their own sections lets hear from ya.

[The Mechanic]

I am quite intrigued by the idea. Some way of forcing the Cycloid Emperor to actually chase Duke at a fairly consistent rate would be needed, perhaps an alternative might be to make the entire path dmaging sectors as that would pretty much define a maximum duration and force the player forwards all the time to pick up health (athough Dukes default pain sounds would need removing as they would get very annoying very quickly!).

The path could include non-damaging sectors that slowly sink and become damaging sectors (you have a library for that ;-) )where Duke gets a little time to solve a puzzle (or, better, kick the butts of a whole bunch of commanders).

Yes, I can definately see some interesting possibilities here.

TTFN,
Jon

PS: I've never played Sonic.

[Paul B]

The Mechanic, on 19 July 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

I am quite intrigued by the idea. Some way of forcing the Cycloid Emperor to actually chase Duke at a fairly consistent rate would be needed, perhaps an alternative might be to make the entire path dmaging sectors as that would pretty much define a maximum duration and force the player forwards all the time to pick up health (athough Dukes default pain sounds would need removing as they would get very annoying very quickly!).

The path could include non-damaging sectors that slowly sink and become damaging sectors (you have a library for that ;-) )where Duke gets a little time to solve a puzzle (or, better, kick the butts of a whole bunch of commanders).

Yes, I can definately see some interesting possibilities here.

TTFN,
Jon

PS: I've never played Sonic.

Welcome aboard! =) The more hands on this project the better it will be.

[Mike Norvak]

So what happened with this?

[aglavic]

Wow just seen this now
Pretty cool idea (also given that I'm a die-hard sonic fan even I was working in a sonic the hedgehog mod for duke a loong time ago, never got finished of course )
Probably you could use some conveyor belts with blocking walls to make the emperor chase you from your side, or something like that, it'd be neat
Hope this gets done some day

[High Treason]

Shit! I knew I forgot about something.

Paul B, if you still want me to code for this I am willing to start within the next few days. As with any coding I embark upon there are bound to be learning curves and things I will make a total cock-up of until I get a decent system in place. Did you ever get a template map done? Would we need different modes such as turning to face the other way to face the boss at the end or anything?

[Paul B]

High Treason, on 08 May 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Shit! I knew I forgot about something.

Paul B, if you still want me to code for this I am willing to start within the next few days. As with any coding I embark upon there are bound to be learning curves and things I will make a total cock-up of until I get a decent system in place. Did you ever get a template map done? Would we need different modes such as turning to face the other way to face the boss at the end or anything?

Sorry, I almost totally forgot about this, and I haven't made any further progress on a demo map but I can definitely resume work on it. I would be more then happy to work along side anyone who wants to contribute to this project. There were a few people that expressed interest but i just ended up dropping the ball. I'm not too sure what everyone's strengths are, or what is needed to make this project come to life but I'm willing to devote time to getting this back on its feet again.Feel free to send me a private message and we can plan to make a plan. Also the Mechanic seemed interested in contributing to this project perhaps you can send him a message and find out how we can coordinate who does what?

[The Mechanic]

Paul B, on 09 May 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Also the Mechanic seemed interested in contributing to this project perhaps you can send him a message and find out how we can coordinate who does what?

You can always PM me - my mail box is always open :-)

I did have a play with a few ideas at the time. I tried to force the player to keep moving by using purple lava floors with lots of "boots" along the path (later would replace them with a custom object acheiving the same purpose). The idea was to then place mines - like the video - but setting the lava floor as water meant you couldn't jump. So, I added collapsing "ski jumps", but problem was they simply obscure the view ahead. The more I tried things, the more like a Commander Keen level it became.

So, not sure how I could help .. except ... if you want any effects created, either using standard Duke or adding some additional CON effects to that library then I'm more than happy to have a go.

TTFN,
Jon

[High Treason]

In my mind I have a solution laid out for this issue using CON code. The idea was to use a "Controller" which sets the player angle, X/Y speed, minimum height (to detect falls) and maximum range of movement (to prevent them leaving intended areas). Should be mostly trivial stuff consisting mostly of moving the player constantly, reading the player's position and having things act upon it. Any number of these 'controllers' could be used in a map, so the direction and speed of the level can be changed if required, allowing corners and such, not limiting you to running down the middle of a trench.

Could take a while to get the math down for enemy placement, as I think it would be worthwhile to have enemies placed ahead of the player instead of having them fly past never to be seen again.

[Micky C]

Have you thought about a procedural generation element to the map? A range of segments could be made, and then dynamically assembled in a continuous fashion. i'm thinking along the lines of a conveyor belt sort of idea where the player runs through a row of segments, with new random segments being pasted at the start and deleted at the end. Of course that's another level of complexity up in the coding.

Although everything you're describing is more Pepsi Man than Sonic https://youtu.be/DKHPxpNZ8_s

[High Treason]

Procedural? Funny, I was playing with that for something else, but in a different way. The fastest way I can think to do it here would be to have a black tunnel which takes the player to another place. The possible locations could be handled in a manner similar to a playlist on shuffle.

I've started experimenting with CON anyway, so I'll fire a PM to Paul B when I have made any decent progress. Of course, Mechanic might have ideas for a better system and I won't be at all upset if he does indeed code one superior to my own attempts.

[TDRR]

I thought an easier way to do stuff would be subway trains (What can i say, i love building trains!), with invisible walls stopping Duke from moving forwards, of course, CON coding is the more tedious approach, but it's much more fun to do and allows a lot more flexibility.

I also like this idea a lot, definitively something worthy of a micro/mini episode.

[The Mechanic]

High Treason, on 12 May 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

I've started experimenting with CON anyway, so I'll fire a PM to Paul B when I have made any decent progress. Of course, Mechanic might have ideas for a better system and I won't be at all upset if he does indeed code one superior to my own attempts.

Better system ? Very unlikely , I'm very much a CON novice.

For a random/dynamic layout, trying to dynamically hack sectors using CON is way too hard (for me). However, I already have code that duplicates groups of sprites at another location, so making something that duplicates one of a random group of sprites is only a minor step. If there was to be a lot of duplication going on, then some mechanism may be needed to manage (re-use) sprites else would soon run out.

Think my ideas for Sonic Duke have moved on from (Commander) Keen Duke to Star Wars Duke (bit I'm thinking of is around 1:20 into video)



(Oh the hours I wasted on this video game as a student. Happy days.)

TTFN,
Jon