[MetHy]

I've started playing Black Mesa but so far I'm disappointed. It looks great, sounds great, the scenes and events are really cool... But gameplay just doesn't feel right. Something is off both on how guns and enemies act and feel.

Also like I said my fav part of the game was everything before the surface, but here it felt so short! There also plenty of small things that bother me, like for instance the way some things are introduced, the shotgun coming in so late and the revolver so early, the fact that you can't open doors with AI allies anymore (and scientists can't heal you either so they're completely useless). etc etc Balance seems kinda off too and there really isn't much tension about fighting aliens.

[MusicallyInspired]

Wow, I never realized that the scientists didn't open doors at your whim anymore. Every time they needed to it was all sequenced. THat IS disappointing. And the scientist healing too. Shame.

[Micky C]

Doesn't really make much sense though. Just because they're big shots in physics, doesn't automatically make them medical doctors. Sure, they'd probably know first aid, but wouldn't know any more than Gordon himself.

[Paul B]

I really enjoyed HL 1 right up until the Xen planet. I don't think that was executed properly it felt rushed and unpolished. HL 2 I just lost total interest as I found the story went from being plausible to too far fetched. I also didn't appreciate the newer versions of the map designs and the game play as much as HL-1's concept. I was looking forward to Black Mesa but since they have removed the Co-op element whats the point of playing it? If I wanted to replay the first game over again i'd just fire up the original. The co-op element was suppose to bring something new to the table now its not happening so my interest in it has gone with co-op.

[MetHy]

Micky C, on 30 July 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Doesn't really make much sense though. Just because they're big shots in physics, doesn't automatically make them medical doctors. Sure, they'd probably know first aid, but wouldn't know any more than Gordon himself.

Who cares, it was a cool gameplay mechanics. Plus, almost every moment when you can get AI partners to follow, it never lasts long and something blocks them very quickly. Only in office complex did it matter a little.

Also what the hell happened to Vortigons. I know this is "early access" but here it's like they're barely done. Quite often they just stand there, not even noticing me, even if I'm only a few meters away. And when I say stand, I mean stand still, with not a single frame of idle animation. Plus when you shoot them, sure green blood spawns, but they don't even flinch.

And grenades throwing is so weird, very hard to control. Even the slightest press, even with alt fire, throws them so far away. Then, they take forever to explode. Also enemy grenades are hard to spot.

It's just... plenty of small things, that are just so off, or made worse. Like I said the whole thing look really cool and there are some good level design ideas (although some parts, in terms of "hinting the player where to go and what to do" are not very clear) but gameplay wise, most of the times I just wish I was playing the actual HL1 instead.

[Marphy Black]

Micky C, on 30 July 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Doesn't really make much sense though. Just because they're big shots in physics, doesn't automatically make them medical doctors.

The scientists who heal you in Half-Life expressly state that they're doctors, and one of the first sights we witness after the resonance cascade is a scientist performing CPR on an unconscious security guard. More importantly, though, this mechanic allows scientists to have a functional gameplay benefit at all times aside from simply being required in the occasional scripted sequence, similar to how security guards provide useful combat backup outside of their own necessary scripts.

That said, the scientists in Black Mesa: Source are indeed supposed to be able to heal the player on demand, and some in fact can. However, either this behavior doesn't always work, or certain specific scientists (it's not clear which ones or why) lack this ability. If the latter, this is definitely a peculiar design choice, but the developer team has deviated greatly from the original many times in the past, often unintentionally.

[MusicallyInspired]

Paul B, on 30 July 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

I really enjoyed HL 1 right up until the Xen planet. I don't think that was executed properly it felt rushed and unpolished. HL 2 I just lost total interest as I found the story went from being plausible to too far fetched. I also didn't appreciate the newer versions of the map designs and the game play as much as HL-1's concept. I was looking forward to Black Mesa but since they have removed the Co-op element whats the point of playing it? If I wanted to replay the first game over again i'd just fire up the original. The co-op element was suppose to bring something new to the table now its not happening so my interest in it has gone with co-op.

What co-op element are you talking about? The security guards to obey you on command and will follow you and attack enemies. It's just that the scientist's don't really open doors for you unless it's scripted.

But then, aren't they all "scripted" anyone in the original? There was actually that one in the beginning that you find up in a catwalk or something that leads you to a small armoury where you get your first gun. He definitely opens that door. So it's still there.

MetHy, on 30 July 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

Also what the hell happened to Vortigons. I know this is "early access" but here it's like they're barely done. Quite often they just stand there, not even noticing me, even if I'm only a few meters away. And when I say stand, I mean stand still, with not a single frame of idle animation. Plus when you shoot them, sure green blood spawns, but they don't even flinch.

I never had this issue. In fact, I found the vortigaunts quite annoying and dangerous whenever I ran into them. They seemed ok, though, animation and movement-wise.

Quote

And grenades throwing is so weird, very hard to control. Even the slightest press, even with alt fire, throws them so far away. Then, they take forever to explode. Also enemy grenades are hard to spot.

Alt fire will roll grenades across a shorter distance instead of throwing them. Makes sense to me.

[PikaCommando]

If anything, it's HL1 grenades that are weird to me. I'm not really used to the movement-controlled grenades that were kept in CS. Since I throw grenades while moving into cover most of the time, the grenades just tend to hit the cover and splash damage/kill me instead. If I stand still to throw the grenade, then I'll get shredded by the HECUs.

[Micky C]

Marphy Black, on 30 July 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

The scientists who heal you in Half-Life expressly state that they're doctors,

I'll be a doctor in less than 3 years; a doctor in engineering. You can be a doctor in absolutely anything, all you need is a phd where you do a few years of research. Since Black Mesa is a research facility I'll bet 95% of those doctors are not medical, and they're definitely not doctors in both physics and medicine. Sure, there might be the implication of medical doctor in that voice clip, but it's not explicit and it's a bit of a stretch realistically speaking.

CPR doesn't mean much either. I can get a first aid certificate that includes CPR from taking a 1-day course.

I understand the gameplay aspect is what everyone cares about. People just seem to put doctors on a pedestal is all.

[deuxsonic]

It's not a day, it's a couple hours. I have a current BLS cert.

[Hendricks266]

Micky C, on 30 July 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

Sure, there might be the implication of medical doctor in that voice clip, but it's not explicit and it's a bit of a stretch realistically speaking.

You're arguing in favor of the technical definition when Valve made Half-Life for a general audience and almost certainly intended the colloquial meaning.

[Micky C]

Hendricks266, on 30 July 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

You're arguing in favor of the technical definition when Valve made Half-Life for a general audience and almost certainly intended the colloquial meaning.

I'm arguing against theoretical physicists having completed a 7 year medical degree on top of their physics degrees.

[Hendricks266]

Micky C, on 30 July 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

I'm arguing against theoretical physicists having completed a 7 year medical degree on top of their physics degrees.

Of all the crazy things that happen in Half-Life (which is also the same universe as Portal), you consider this unrealistic?

Not to mention the Engineer from TF2 has eleven hard science PhDs.

[MusicallyInspired]

Games being as unrealistic as they were nobody cared about that stuff back then. I don't know what the big deal is anyway. It was just a needle that boosted your health. That's about as realistic as sucking renewal from a wall mounted deposit with a hose. Or heck, the nature of the HEV suit itself and how it works.

*Morphine administered*

"Oh good! I just broke my leg from that fall, but I'm instantly fine and can run around with no pain or impedments!"

Or drinking from a water fountain or busted fire hydrant. Or toilet/urinal.

[Micky C]

Hendricks266, on 30 July 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

Not to mention the Engineer from TF2 has eleven hard science PhDs.

Damn, my character from the AMC TC only has half a dozen undergrad degrees and 4 PhDs

For the record wasn't Half-life renowned for being at least somewhat grounded in reality?

[deuxsonic]

MusicallyInspired, on 30 July 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

Games being as unrealistic as they were nobody cared about that stuff back then. I don't know what the big deal is anyway. It was just a needle that boosted your health. That's about as realistic as sucking renewal from a wall mounted deposit with a hose. Or heck, the nature of the HEV suit itself and how it works.

*Morphine administered*

"Oh good! I just broke my leg from that fall, but I'm instantly fine and can run around with no pain or impedments!"

Or drinking from a water fountain or busted fire hydrant.

Water is especially refreshing for Duke.

[MusicallyInspired]

Well he can't handle alcohol very well, so it makes sense...

(that's another thing I didn't mind as a game mechanic because it doesn't need to be that realistic)

[deuxsonic]

I think it's hilarious thinking about it actually. You're dying and you drink a swimming pool's worth of water from a broken toilet (periodically stopping to piss some of it out in another toilet for more healing) and you're completely healed!

[MetHy]

Next time I'll make sure to pay attention to what I nitpick about before I start another stupid debate.

Anyway I reached the point where I met the first spec ops enemies with black suits and semi invisibility. I've only fought 2 so far but they seemed to be the worst downgrade from HL1. They were very easy to see, their movement easy to predict, they didn't seem to deal as much damage and more importantly they just stood there waiting to be killed.

Maybe my memories of HL1 are clouded with time, but I remember those to be much better and more difficult in every aspect. I'm very disappointed in how enemies behave overall, I think it's the mod's biggest issue.

[Lunick]

On a Rail is the worst Half-Life level

[Player Lin]

Even HL/Portal universe was based on the modern world like Real-Life, it doesn't means will be realistically, really.

MetHy, on 30 July 2016 - 10:54 PM, said:

Anyway I reached the point where I met the first spec ops enemies with black suits and semi invisibility. I've only fought 2 so far but they seemed to be the worst downgrade from HL1. They were very easy to see, their movement easy to predict, they didn't seem to deal as much damage and more importantly they just stood there waiting to be killed.

Maybe my memories of HL1 are clouded with time, but I remember those to be much better and more difficult in every aspect. I'm very disappointed in how enemies behave overall, I think it's the mod's biggest issue.

I'm sure in BMS, I got my Freeman's ass kicked by those black assholes at Hard, but in Easy, they're piece of cake. In original HL1...well, they're just pain in my ass regardless difficulty...forced me throw my explosives or RPG missiles on them... but they're still weak and can killed by one or two of .357 direct hit...

Lunick, on 30 July 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

On a Rail is the worst Half-Life level

That's why BMS version just so short and missing something from the Original.

[MetHy]

I'm playing on Hard

[Daedolon]

Weird, on a rail is one of the few levels I actually like in the game.

[Player Lin]

MetHy, on 31 July 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

I'm playing on Hard

Okay, maybe my skilled just not so good or something...
I have hard times when deal with them, at least on Hard.

Daedolon, on 31 July 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

Weird, on a rail is one of the few levels I actually like in the game.

So the OaR Uncut mod for those who like that part. But don't knowdon't get that about why so many dislike OaR chapter in Original HL...

[MetHy]

I beat Black Mesa now. The 2nd set of Assassins I met actually behaved normally.

I think the issues I had, were just the AI sometimes glitching out, just stopping or not noticing the player, or not behaving like they should. It happened with almost every enemy type though. If they fixed this, and actually improved weapon and enemies behaviour a little, this could turn out really great as most environments were really cool. The dam area in particular was fabulous.

The Lambda Lab however, I thought was terrible. I mean the whole part where you have to turn on the water coolant and everything. They've added tons of useless shit to it to make it look "cool", but as a result it's very confusing and hard to figure out where to go and what to do, what is expected, even when knowing the original game. There plenty of valves, computers, buttons, doors, etc etc which are decoration. Not to mention 2 entire areas that look just like the real water coolant pump but which are just transition rooms in which you don't do anything. Then there is the whole set of ladders and mini elevators which are only either side paths or lead to stashes which added to the confusion.

[----]

MetHy, on 31 July 2016 - 06:10 AM, said:

The Lambda Lab however, I thought was terrible. I mean the whole part where you have to turn on the water coolant and everything. They've added tons of useless shit to it to make it look "cool", but as a result it's very confusing and hard to figure out where to go and what to do, what is expected, even when knowing the original game. There plenty of valves, computers, buttons, doors, etc etc which are decoration. Not to mention 2 entire areas that look just like the real water coolant pump but which are just transition rooms in which you don't do anything. Then there is the whole set of ladders and mini elevators which are only either side paths or lead to stashes which added to the confusion.

I remember hating the Lamda Core in HL1 more than in BMS.

I got confused in my original playthrough in HL1 (and I only played through it once, because some parts really dragged). But I had less trouble in BMS although I only had one playthrough some 15 years ago.

[MetHy]

There is something else missing from BMS, it's the puzzles. I seem to remember HL1 having puzzles involving pushing crates, or pushing metal objects on cut power lines (or was that in Blue Shift?) and all there is in BMS is pressing switches or (un)plugging wires. Besides, with the HL2 physics there is potential for me. Oh yeah, there is the underwater puzzle with the empty containers but that's straight outta HL2, not very original.

Only achievement I'm missing is the hat one so I'm actually tempted to replay the game now.

[deuxsonic]

For assassins because of their speed, I don't try to hunt them down because you'll get slaughtered. I stay in areas where they can only come at me from one direction and force them to come to me. I did this a lot with human enemies because of their mobility.

[MusicallyInspired]

I saved up assault rifle grenades. That's how I did it.

[Hendricks266]

I bound a key to a toggle for setting the FOV to something like 15, effectively making the revolver into a sniper rifle that I could use to headshot enemies from afar.