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Polymer lives again

User is online   Mark. 

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#1

I have no idea how long it will be before a stable, feature filled NG renderer is ready for everyday use. In the mean time Polymer is still plagued by major issues other than framerate. Judging by recent history am I to assume Polymer support ( bug fixing ) is officially dead?
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User is offline   deuxsonic 

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#2

I'm wondering about this too. Right now Polymost and Polymer are so plagued with bugs that Classic is the only option if you don't want constant issues.
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User is offline   Hank 

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#3

Side comment, from me.
When I came back here, Polymost was 'dead'.
or read what the wiki writes about it.
http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Polymost
People like LeoD still use it, or keep its HRP going

LUA scripting is on hold, I am using it right now.
And so on.

I think, for as long as you use something, it's alive. Posted Image

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 27 May 2016 - 06:39 PM

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User is online   Mark. 

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#4

For a project I'm working on right now I can't use an Eduke version above 5395 because of something that got broken that is a game breaker for me.

So I guess I'm just looking for closure. If its dead I'll deal with it by giving up hope, sticking to old versions and deal with it. ( until ICD's NG is ready to go )

This post has been edited by Mark.: 27 May 2016 - 06:46 PM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #5

No, it's not dead. I don't know what more I can say. You guys deserve action, not words.

View PostMark., on 27 May 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

For a project I'm working on right now I can't use an Eduke version above 5395 because of something that got broken that is a game breaker for me.

Thank you for identifying the revision that introduced the problem. For now I'll crawl the bug reports forum to see what other issues people or having.

If you all don't mind, reposting links to prior posts or threads here will also help me.
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User is online   Mark. 

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#6

It is the issue that TeaMonster and I brought attention to. Custom models and textures do not want to display normal, spec and glow maps properly if at all. Vanilla content works fine.

https://forums.duke4...nt-and-polymer/

This post has been edited by Mark.: 27 May 2016 - 06:50 PM

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User is offline   icecoldduke 

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#7

Hendricks is doing a great job of maintaining eduke32, and its various pieces of complicated tech. If he says Polymer is not dead, then its not fucking dead. Dont underestimate Hendricks devotion to this project, I just hope he doesnt spread himself to thin and explodes ;).

Im working hard to get PolymerNG in a state that will allow you guys to make awesome content with. Its not a easy undertaking, but it will be well worth it in the end.

I hope you guys stick around because it will be worth the wait.

ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw
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User is offline   Paul B 

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#8

View PostHendricks266, on 27 May 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

No, it's not dead. I don't know what more I can say. You guys deserve action, not words.


Thank you for identifying the revision that introduced the problem. For now I'll crawl the bug reports forum to see what other issues people or having.

If you all don't mind, reposting links to prior posts or threads here will also help me.

I would start around EDuke Synthesis Release 4254. That's when I noticed things starting to change and unfortunately not for the better. However, I primarily use Polymer for everything I do but I'm using Synthesis 4249 as it doesn't appear to be affected by all these drastic changes and visual problems.


This post has been edited by Paul B: 27 May 2016 - 07:40 PM

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User is offline   PsychoGoatee 

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#9

View Postdeuxsonic, on 27 May 2016 - 06:34 PM, said:

I'm wondering about this too. Right now Polymost and Polymer are so plagued with bugs that Classic is the only option if you don't want constant issues.


What bugs do you mean for Polymost? I play Duke 3D and every community release almost exclusively on Polymost, I haven't run into many issues. The majority of user maps seem to play and display just fine on Polymost.

For me not having the oldschool style of faking looking up and down is the main appeal of a source port, so I don't go back to classic renderer much. Just for TROR maps etc.

This post has been edited by PsychoGoatee: 27 May 2016 - 09:33 PM

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User is online   Mark. 

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#10

View Posticecoldduke, on 27 May 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

...I hope you guys stick around because it will be worth the wait.

I have a lot of personal and team projects started to keep me here for a couple of years yet. I have no intentions of migrating to any other engine.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

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#11

icecoldduke: I had already left, partially due to problems with getting stuff to look right in Polymer. I came back to do this project.

Hendricks266: Thanks for looking into this. I've already communicated a lot of this to Plagman.

The bug is that normal, gloss and spec maps are not displaying on models based on custom (user defined) tile numbers. Assets assigned to regular (already assigned to existing assets) tile numbers initially seemed to be OK, but we discovered another bug when doing this.

There is another issue with gloss maps only working on HUD models, but I'm not too fused with that as even when working, they don't render like other games and look strange. So we can't really use them anyway :(

There are two big considerations to take into account if you are rolling back to a previous version of EDuke:

1. There was a huge bug that was squashed shortly before 5395. In it, objects like the fire hydrant will appear hyper-glossy if viewed from one angle, and completely matt (flat) if you walk around the object and view it from the other side.

2. Certain objects had offset UVs, as if the uv map was being panned on the model when displayed, so you would see a few pixels of the adjoining UV island at the top of your model's face. This bug is fixed in the latest snapshot.

This is a shot of a test article I made. This is in Marmoset Toolbag, which is a model viewer. Granted, it's a cube only a mother could love, but it's just a test article.
Posted Image

and this is what it looks like in Polymer when assigned to a custom tile number:
Posted Image

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 28 May 2016 - 01:14 AM

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User is offline   LeoD 

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#12

View PostHendricks266, on 27 May 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

If you all don't mind, reposting links to prior posts or threads here will also help me.
There's a list of bookmarks in the Cutting Edge / Public Backup section of my thread.

Polymost HRP / Z-Pack: customize your HRP | User Map Maphacks
"Redneck Rampage has chickens. If you put a chicken in Duke3D then it's Duke3D with a chicken."
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User is offline   deuxsonic 

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#13

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 27 May 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

What bugs do you mean for Polymost? I play Duke 3D and every community release almost exclusively on Polymost, I haven't run into many issues. The majority of user maps seem to play and display just fine on Polymost.

For me not having the oldschool style of faking looking up and down is the main appeal of a source port, so I don't go back to classic renderer much. Just for TROR maps etc.


Alright I should have just said Polymer. Polymost still has some nitpicking issues but I had been using Polymer which seems to be where the concentration of rendering bugs are.

https://forums.duke4...act-weird-pics/

This I do still encounter, mostly with force fields in the official maps, and I'm curious about the scaling of parallaxed skies.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

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#14

Hendricks266 - If it's any help, I think I read in the readme that TerminX made the alterations on that revision. It might be worth speaking to him to see if he can shed some light on what happened.
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User is offline   LeoD 

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#15

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 27 May 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

What bugs do you mean for Polymost? I play Duke 3D and every community release almost exclusively on Polymost, I haven't run into many issues. The majority of user maps seem to play and display just fine on Polymost.
Recent builds (which I've given up to use) appear to have introduced new bugs into Polymost, which has been rock-solid for all those years otherwise.

View PostPaul B, on 27 May 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

I would start around EDuke Synthesis Release 4254. That's when I noticed things starting to change and unfortunately not for the better. However, I primarily use Polymer for everything I do but I'm using Synthesis 4249 as it doesn't appear to be affected by all these drastic changes and visual problems.
My choice is r4495. Are you referring to Mapster32 or actual EDuke32?

Polymost HRP / Z-Pack: customize your HRP | User Map Maphacks
"Redneck Rampage has chickens. If you put a chicken in Duke3D then it's Duke3D with a chicken."

This post has been edited by LeoD: 28 May 2016 - 04:39 AM

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User is offline   Paul B 

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#16

View PostLeoD, on 28 May 2016 - 04:36 AM, said:

My choice is r4495. Are you referring to Mapster32 or actual EDuke32?


I have always used the same Eduke revision as the Mapster version I am using.
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User is offline   LeoD 

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#17

View PostPaul B, on 28 May 2016 - 05:16 AM, said:

I have always used the same Eduke revision as the Mapster version I am using.
My question was supposed to mean: In which of the two executables did you encounter issues first?

Polymost HRP / Z-Pack: customize your HRP | User Map Maphacks
"Redneck Rampage has chickens. If you put a chicken in Duke3D then it's Duke3D with a chicken."
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User is offline   Paul B 

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#18

View PostLeoD, on 28 May 2016 - 05:54 AM, said:

My question was supposed to mean: In which of the two executables did you encounter issues first?


Oh sorry for misunderstanding. Personally I typically notice problems in Mapster since 99.9 percent of my time is spent in there.
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User is offline   Drek 

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#19

I went to mapping on an old dell inspiron 6400 (in the AC :) ), shit was glitchy as all hell till I reverted way back to 4200, I skipped over a lot of revisions, I'll use my craptop to see where my first issues came to be.

OK, it's a mapster thing, renders shade lines and skies weird, starting rev 5001, good at 4980.

4980;
Posted Image

5001;
Posted Image

^doesn't look so bad in the pic, but it's horrid to look at in real time while moving the camera.

(not a bug report, I'm fine mapping in an older version on this old laptop. I only posted in the small hope my issue helps track down the others)

This post has been edited by Drek: 28 May 2016 - 02:41 PM

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User is online   Mark. 

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#20

I'm all over the place with using older versions. For instance, Graveyard uses 4593 because anything after that changed the water walking AI for enemies and I wasn't smart enough to adapt my cons to compensate. Decay uses 5293 because anything later had a more pronounced glitch of rendering indoor areas through a parallaxed sky. My current project is using 4395 because later versions messed up normal, spec and glow maps which are being heavily used on models and textures. Its something I have learned to live with.
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User is offline   LeoD 

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#21

View PostMark., on 28 May 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

Graveyard uses 4593 because anything after that changed the water walking AI for enemies and I wasn't smart enough to adapt my cons to compensate.
It comes with r4376, actually. ;)

Polymost HRP / Z-Pack: customize your HRP | User Map Maphacks
"Redneck Rampage has chickens. If you put a chicken in Duke3D then it's Duke3D with a chicken."
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User is online   Mark. 

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#22

You might be right and I have versions mixed up. The 4593 was the version I stuck with for my WGR2 map because anything after that had a framerate drop in Polymer.
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #23

View PostMark., on 28 May 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

The 4593 was the version I stuck with for my WGR2 map because anything after that had a framerate drop in Polymer.

I recall asking you bisect this issue and somehow we weren't able to actually identify which one changed it.

http://hendricks266....ct_4593_4777.7z

The first thing to test is that both 4593 from synthesis and 4593 from this work properly. After that, test 4594. Beyond that, the fastest way to find the problem is to repeatedly cut the list in half (literally "bisecting").

(4593 + 4777) / 2 = 4685

If 4685 has the problem, (4593 + 4685) / 2 = 4639.
If it does not have the problem, (4685 + 4777) / 2 = 4731.
And so on.
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User is online   Mark. 

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#24

I wish I could remember where we left off. You had some automated process that was building exe's from about 70 unreleased subversions in between the good and bad version. I painstakingly went through a whole lot of them and it was narrowed down to a very small group of suspects that were going to get looked at. Thats the last I remember.

It seems I still have our PMs from that time. As stated above I tested a bunch of versions you sent and it was narrowed down to between 4599 and 4639. You were going to install WGR2 and run my test map. That was the last PM concerning that.

IIRC It was from July of 2015 if you still have your PMs to check.

As important as I felt it was at the time, I'm actually more concerned now about the texture maps problem mentioned previously because its an integral part of the current project I'm helping with.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 29 May 2016 - 02:46 AM

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User is offline   Fantinaikos 

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#25

Regarding Polymer/NG and WGR2 (actually also WGR1 and the WGR2 adaptation)
someone can check how looks my HRP pack with that?
Personally i can't test polymer by myself, neither 8-bit mode and i need some more informations for increase the compatibility and visual quality for those who can use it. Mostly becauase even the "Polymost" version need an update after addon compilation 2.0 since folders path is changed.

This post has been edited by Fantinaikos: 29 May 2016 - 08:29 AM

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User is offline   icecoldduke 

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#26

View PostFantinaikos, on 29 May 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Regarding Polymer/NG and WGR2 (actually also WGR1 and the WGR2 adaptation)
someone can check how looks my HRP pack with that?
Personally i can't test polymer by myself, neither 8-bit mode and i need some more informations for increase the compatibility and visual quality for those who can use it. Mostly becauase even the "Polymost" version need an update after addon compilation 2.0 since folders path is changed.

I haven't tried WGR at all yet. If you point me to all the assets you want me to use, I can try to do it tomorrow.

ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw
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User is online   Mark. 

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#27

I went to the original thread to download the pack for testing and all I get is the Filedrop main page.
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User is offline   Fantinaikos 

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#28

View PostMark., on 29 May 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

I went to the original thread to download the pack for testing and all I get is the Filedrop main page.


Yeah, Filedrop has expired it from months. I still have the original pack, but it will take me a while to reupload all 314 MB.
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User is online   Mark. 

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#29

No big rush. Just post here when its done.
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User is offline   pacman 

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#30

I am hoping for the day we can get soething with a fluent framerate, until that day, I will have to play with Polymost since is the most smooth experience possible.
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