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DN3D soundtrack: E1M2 and E1M3 tracks switched?

User is offline   JasonGSux 

  • 6

#1

Greetings,

My first post here. ;)

This year I've started playing DN3D classic after a long time (having a great time at it; oh, the memories), and here's an observation about a part of its soundtrack. I'm not sure if this had been discussed here or anywhere else (I googled), so I apologize if I'm reopening a well-known topic.

My question is: do you think that midi tracks for E1M2 and E1M3 are incidentally switched? Here's how it looks:

E1M2, Red Light District, staged in the city streets, has a track named Taking the Death Toll:



And E1M3, a prison level, has a track titled The City Streets:



Don't you think these would fit much better if they were switched? I'm not talking just about the titles, but also how they sound.

Discuss. :)
5

User is offline   Fox 

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#2

That an interesting question. But I would say it's unlikely. The music themes or titles are mostly random, and so does the maps they are assigned to.
0

User is offline   TerminX 

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  #3

The tracks may have been written with a specific level in mind, but the maps changed a lot after the tracks were written. I wouldn't be surprised if the choice of music track per map was left up to someone like Greg Malone, actually.

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0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,390

#4

Interesting observation. Never thought of it that way. That said, I can't change what's so deeply drilled into my brain as the atmosphere of Red Light District with the upbeat-ness of Streets, nor can I accept Death Row with such a slow-paced and drab soundtrack as Death Toll.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 30 March 2016 - 05:32 AM

1

User is offline   Commando Nukem 

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#5

Especially given the themes each level depicts.

Red Light District is very bleak and oppressive. The aliens have taken over, and they're up to no good.

"Streets" fit's Death Row because it's like Duke getting his second wind. He's learned about something horrible going wrong, and been ambushed, and now he's gonna kick some ass all the way to the alien ship.

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1

User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #6

I can't dissociate Streets from Death Row. When I first played Duke 3D, I got stuck in E1L3 for months trying to find the way to open that big door outside. I think I originally noclipped through it and only found out about the poster later.
3

User is offline   WorkWandaWork 

  • 3,074

#7

I tested it out quickly by running a youtube playthrough on silent while your music choice was running in the background and it's pretty spot on. In particular in E1L3 the video was in the church area at the same time as the "gong" section of the track was playing.

Neat thought.
1

User is offline   Fox 

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#8

I am so used to the music that I can't change it. I.e. E1L2 is just odd, and E1L3 looks like an User Map.
0

User is offline   High Treason 

  • 1,096

#9

If I had to think "streets" was from anywhere different, I'd guess Episode 3, it would fit there and might even do so better than it does on E1M3, at least to my mind. It has a similar mood to the track in E3M2, but most of the other tracks in E3M* are more upbeat like that anyway.

Who's to know, given what we've seen in older CON files and pictures from early builds it is clear we were going to get a really different game at one point and at least some of the music has existed since the game looked more like LameDuke - XPLASMA.MID certainly appears to have been around back then. As a result, there is no telling what the music was originally intended to go with or how much of the game Bobby & Lee actually saw before writing it or if they saw the game, it is possible the rest of the team didn't agree with their choice and moved the music to other levels. By this point, it also seems we will never be able to find out.

It isn't uncommon for game assets to get re-arranged, just look at how much Sonic 2 changed in its development with levels having different music, some different graphics and some being scrapped completely. It was a much smaller and more simplistic game than Duke and yet it still changed significantly throughout development.

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This post has been edited by High Treason: 11 March 2016 - 06:34 PM

0

User is offline   Minigunner 

  • 187

#10

DETHTOLL fits in E1L2 because it doesn't really interfere with the BARMUSIC playing in the strip club.
2

User is offline   gerolf 

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#11

This is something that I asked myself recently, but I agree with people saying it wouldn't feel right in their brain if the tracks were swapped.

Personally, I think that the unused version of womp works very well in E1M2. It has a slow start that reminds me of DETHTOLL, and then it gets really fast and heavy, which gives the level a different feeling.
0

User is offline   JasonGSux 

  • 6

#12

Some interesting observations and thoughts (and info); I'm glad I asked.

I too wouldn't swap the tracks now (even if I knew how to do it), because it's canon, and it's how I experienced the game for the first time twenty years ago. I'm enjoying it as it is.

But if I were the creator, I'd still go with the reversed setup:

City Streets with its upbeat goes better with the opening Red Light District action sequence in the open space, and the Forbidden store, and the demolition site, and the clubs. The only part where Death Toll fits perfectly is the very moment when you reveal the DUKE NUKEM MUST DIE! sign. I always loved that combination.

Death Toll, quite a bleak tune, somehow goes better with the interior level that is Death Row, and its execution chamber, and chapel, and cells. Plus you start the level devoid of all the weapons and inventory.
1

User is offline   oasiz 

  • 959

#13

I always thought that dethtoll fits E1L2 pretty well, especially when you start to think of it as a dystopic futuristic ghetto streets of L.A. , where HH had more glamour.
Considering that RLD went through tons of changes and being lifted off from lameduke's huge city map that already had a rather oppressive dystopic feel to it and is probably the only city map that tried to stay as close to that theme.

Generally the beta tunes got toned down more from the snippets that are out there, lead synths being removed and overall sounding way less ROTT-like.
Whomp beta has a bunch of sections where it really sounds like a ROTT tune when it comes to the lead sounds.
Maybe it's just me but they do remind me of ROTT. Perhaps this is the "George filter"? Who knows..

Might have been that L2 used to have a more upbeat choice but was ditched in favor of a more ambient / moody one.
Also gives a nicer contrast between L1 and L2, especially for early shareware levels where first impressions matter.

This post has been edited by oasiz: 12 March 2016 - 03:18 AM

1

User is offline   Commando Nukem 

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#14

Although it's somewhat OT, I'd really love to know when it was decided to have Duke get captured, actually. Just thinking about that whole aspect of those two levels, it's a fairly big one-off event in the entire game.

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#15

Yeah, right in the first episode. It was really cool. Too bad that didn't do something else like that in the later episodes. Although, I'm not sure what else you could have done...

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0

User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #16

The alien bastards shot up his ride again...
0

User is offline   Duke Legacy 

  • 1,050

#17

I could have swear I heard a Duke 3D song on Total Meltdown eps 2

Duke Nukem is no longer needed in this World so just kill him off already
0

User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #18

Mark Knight covered a handful of the original tracks instead of outright replacing them.
1

User is offline   Duke Legacy 

  • 1,050

#19

can't believe all the years I have been playing both games didn't notice it intil now hahaha

Duke Nukem is no longer needed in this World so just kill him off already
0

User is offline   oasiz 

  • 959

#20

Duke being captured kinda ties in with DN2 quite nicely.
Lameduke also had a prison map that clearly inspired death row later on, in that one you escaped from a cell.

Not sure I would have liked yet another prison map to go through :P
1

User is offline   MrFlibble 

  • 682

#21

Let's not forget that stripping the player of all previously collected equipment mid-game has become a pretty widespread trope. It adds variety and complexity to gameplay, and is also a neat narrative device as well. Apogee model shareware games already sort of did that in-between episodes, but I think Duke3D was actually one of the first games to pull this trope within an episode. Right now I can only think of Star Wars: Dark Forces as an earlier FPS example to feature a no-gear level.
0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#22

Is Half-Life considered early enough?

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*new* Buy the Mage's Initiation Original Soundtrack on Bandcamp by me!
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

  • 682

#23

I meant earlier than Duke3D.
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