[Jblade]

One of my long term goals for the AMC TC was to improve the higher difficulty levels so that instead of just purely higher enemy numbers, enemies will also have more attacks and improved AI. Episode two went quite a long way with this goal (For instance, Cybertours and Bruisers use their big attacks much more frequently) but there's still more room for improvement. Right now Armageddon has a 2x damage setting against the player and ideally I'd like to naturally make the enemies do more damage than just artificially increasing it (so zombie soldiers will have grenades, ninjas will have smokebombs .etc) I'm curious as to what you guys would like to see - my ideal goal is to increase the power creep for BOTH sides so that the AMC team can wield power-armour, shield belts, increasingly powerful weapons and ammo types and the enemies will get more powerful as well.

I have a couple of ideas in mind, one for the higher difficulties and one just in general.

The first is inspired by X-COM Long War - the idea of battle fatigue for characters. We all have our favourites and player choice is important but on the other hand, encouraging people to try out other characters is also a good goal in general. My idea was for on Expert and above only (so normal mode will not have this feature) characters will get a fatigue rating after a mission, calculated on a mixture of time taken and injuries sustained (I'll figure out a balance) As this rating goes up, the character will start to receive penalties to represent fatigue setting in. Short term consequences are a shorter sprint bar, medium would be an accuracy resetting penalty, and the higher levels would go up to reduced health levels and no inate regen ability. This would all be communicated on the player select screen.

This fatigue would be restored in several ways - the first would be to simply not use that character for a few missions. The other would be to visit a hub world and go to one of several 'chillout' locations - I really want to expand the hub maps since the moon base you only really need to visit once and that's it. You could go there, pay a small amount of base budget or something and get to check out say a spa or something goofy like that and it would reduce the fatigue level instantly. This way if you want to do a character mission instantly you can just take that agent for a small holiday and then be free to use them again.

Thoughts? nothing is set in stone but there's a big roster of characters and I'd like some mechanic to encourage cycling them at the higher levels of gameplay.

The second is more simple, resource aquisition. I actually had a minigame planned for the resource gathering you can do on the sol system moons but never got round to coding it in. Basically you'd control a mining rover and drive around terrain picking up minerals that would translate to resources (you could optionally sell them for budget too) It would be a chill-out mode, and you could upgrade the rover from a basic model with a greyscale camera to more advanced models that fly and detect minerals from afar.

[Rodrigo Belacruz III]

First off: One of the things that I appreciate about the TC is how the difficulty modes add some actual challenge to the game. Way too many games rely on the "make enemies bullet sponges and make the player character a pushover" approach to difficulty, which primarily leads to a lot of cheap deaths and tedium resulting from the time spent pumping enemies full of lead. From what I've heard and experienced, however, AMC TC's difficulty levels offer some genuine challenges in its upper difficulty levels. Prime examples include how enemies will use their more powerful attacks (Pig Cops getting explosive shells, Cybertours using homing shells more frequently); additionally, enemies have resistances to certain attacks that require players to utilize new techniques to defeat them (magical enemies being immune to non-silver, magical, or energy attacks, for example).

I think that the best approach to difficulty would be to keep on emphasizing things like improved enemy AI/more dangerous attacks, more resistances to certain attacks that require players to vastly change their weapon choice and playstyle, and more essential resource management (i.e., less ammo drops per level.) Of course, these are probably more difficult to implement, but they're the methods that, IMO, actually challenge the player and encourage replays on higher difficulties to experience these new challenges. Maybe, for example, you can take some inspiration from all of the crazy champion enemies and attack variations we saw in Attrition. For example, take those PE commanders with the holograms. Attrition has champion Assault Troopers that can generate a hologram of an enforcer that can shoot at you. Perhaps on higher difficulties, the PE holograms would also be able to fire at the player?

I'm fine with increased damage received, so long as the increase isn't extreme to the point where you have to play the game at a snail's pace, carefully plinking away at enemies a mile away to prevent a single stray bullet from shredding half of your HP.

The idea you suggested from X-COM Long War certainly sounds interesting. My primary concern is this; let's say you complete a story mission, and another mission unlocks that can only be played by a character that you have a high fatigue rating on. That'd kind of stink, as you'd essentially be forced to either pay base budget or grind some other missions as other characters so as to not be saddled with that fatigue rating. Personally, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it, especially since I have a few strong favorite characters, but if the system encourages character variety without being too imposing, I'm willing to give it a try.

Concerning the trips to hub worlds: I agree that areas like New LA need some more fleshing out; however, if you're visiting it just to remove fatigue, it'll come across as more of a chore to visit than anything else. My idea: include New LA (and any other similar future areas) as actual areas in which you can perform small missions for various people and factions, providing various boosts to the AMC main base. For example, you could talk to a store owner who tells you that his roof has a nasty infestation of Protector Drones; clearing them out would give you a permanent discount on weapon upgrades. The EDF wants a lunar camp of Cycloids that has been harassing the colony wiped off the map; in exchange, they give you an permanent increase to any base budget awards you receive in the future. Raid a PE outpost and recover some long-lost artifact for some crazy pawnshop owner; in exchange, he gives you his artifact shotgun. In the same vein as the AMC main base, you could purchase expansions for the colony that would both provide some eyecandy and provide tangible benefits to the AMC squad. Open a lunar mineshaft that provides a small boost to your base budget earnings; a black market gun store that can provide upgrades for your specialty weapons; various recreational facilities that can remove fatigue and provide small temporary buffs/ boosts for AMC members who use them. Just spitballing some ideas; obviously not all of them should/can be implemented, but hopefully they'll provide some inspiration.


I also like the idea of a resource gathering minigame, although care and testing will be needed to ensure that it's an enjoyable minigame in its own right, without becoming too much of a grind. If it were accessed in New LA, it'd also provide a better reason to travel there.

All in all, I like the ideas that you've suggested, and I hope that development for Episode 3 has been going well, and will incorporate some of them.

[TheDragonLiner]

You could also inspire from other mods like Attrition or DukePlus.

For instance in higher difficulties from expert you could implement special enemies for instance PigCops that have DB shotguns or dualwielding magnums or something like that.
Also speaking of PigCops you could give them a new attack with TearGas Grenades, it's a mechanic that works quite fine in the other mods, it forces us not to remain hidden at the same spot, Enforcers have an equivalent as well.

Also I've noticed that no enemy use flamethrowers, it might be a good idea to implement that (besides with Enforcers it would be a reference to Beta Duke) on higher difficulties especially considering that fire damage is very strong against the player.

[Jblade]

Those are some solid ideas guys!

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The idea you suggested from X-COM Long War certainly sounds interesting. My primary concern is this; let's say you complete a story mission, and another mission unlocks that can only be played by a character that you have a high fatigue rating on. That'd kind of stink, as you'd essentially be forced to either pay base budget or grind some other missions as other characters so as to not be saddled with that fatigue rating. Personally, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it, especially since I have a few strong favorite characters, but if the system encourages character variety without being too imposing, I'm willing to give it a try.

That's why it would be restricted to the higher levels, since it would be about maintaining who you're playing as - I'd like to give reasons to just walk about and chill out between missions rather than just having an objective all the time basically. Having a gameplay benefit to it would actually give a small trip around the hub maps a purpose if you want to play but feel like doing something a bit less hectic than a mission. Same reason as to the resource gathering game - I would still give the option of doing it automatically though, but I'm just picturing some nice slow ambient music with a great space skybox that you can just grind away on (I think some grinding is actually kinda soothing, if done right - sounds weird I know but man I just loved turning on a podcast and mining out a big chunk of cave in Minecraft and I want to sort of recreate that as an optional gameplay element)

Also the Paradigm Elder's ability is actually called Obfuscate which I borrowed from Vampire Bloodlines...it's kind of hard to get this across to players since every single person has called it a hologram. If you listen the casting sound is actually of blood squishing, it's also why Paradigm troops spawn in via a cloud of blood (as it's implied some older vampires are teleporting them in via blood magic) The only clue everybody caught on to was when Trenton flies away as a cloud of bats...I might need to add a scene with a mirror where the elders are cleary lacking a reflection but even then people would probably just think it's a bug and not intentional

[Rodrigo Belacruz III]

Jblade, on 27 February 2016 - 12:14 AM, said:

That's why it would be restricted to the higher levels, since it would be about maintaining who you're playing as - I'd like to give reasons to just walk about and chill out between missions rather than just having an objective all the time basically. Having a gameplay benefit to it would actually give a small trip around the hub maps a purpose if you want to play but feel like doing something a bit less hectic than a mission. Same reason as to the resource gathering game - I would still give the option of doing it automatically though, but I'm just picturing some nice slow ambient music with a great space skybox that you can just grind away on (I think some grinding is actually kinda soothing, if done right - sounds weird I know but man I just loved turning on a podcast and mining out a big chunk of cave in Minecraft and I want to sort of recreate that as an optional gameplay element)

Oh, I agree. Jumping from action-packed level to action-packed level is a blast, but I often found myself (primarily off camera) kind of wanting to interact with the hub worlds more. I've even payed a few visits to New LA after I already picked up the EDF mission stuff, just to taken in the atmosphere and architecture and poke around a little more.

Personally, I don't mind the concept of a grind, when it's done right. Ever played The Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth? There's a game mode where you accumulate money by fighting swarming waves of enemies that can be used to purchase items, which increase your abilities and get you prepped for the tough final boss. However, a donation machine spawns after killing him, and you have the option to donate any coins you have left over before exiting the run. The amount you've donated is saved between runs, and there are certain new items that get unlocked at certain milestones (you get a new character, the final unlock, at 1000 coins). This creates an interesting strategy: do I use these coins to buy items that make me stronger and make it more likely that I'll survive, or save them for donation so I can get closer to those unlocks? The thing is... the machine has a chance to randomly jam and put an arbitrary cap on the amount of coins you can donate per run. And before it was patched, you often spent 35 minutes on a run to donate like 1 or 2 coins. That is a very, very bad grind. But if it's in some way optional (because regardless of the level of grindiness, there are players who will likely get turned off) and not too unreasonable (i.e., large time invested = relatively low reward) I would enjoy it myself. Put on some Totalbiscuit or RHCP and mine some ores between bouts of blasting Assault Enforcers' heads off with a shotgun

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Also the Paradigm Elder's ability is actually called Obfuscate which I borrowed from Vampire Bloodlines...it's kind of hard to get this across to players since every single person has called it a hologram. If you listen the casting sound is actually of blood squishing, it's also why Paradigm troops spawn in via a cloud of blood (as it's implied some older vampires are teleporting them in via blood magic) The only clue everybody caught on to was when Trenton flies away as a cloud of bats...I might need to add a scene with a mirror where the elders are cleary lacking a reflection but even then people would probably just think it's a bug and not intentional

PARDON ME? I figured Solari was a vampire, but... Wow. It makes a bit more sense now, how they were able to teleport in at certain spots. Is that why they wear those ominous Stormstooper-style black trenchcoats and gas masks, to protect themselves from sunlight? In that case, going off of my original suggestion, why not give Paradigm Elders other vampiric abilities at higher difficulty levels, like a life steal?

Thanks for responding, by the way! I hope some other people find the time to respond to this thread and add their own contributions.

[Jblade]

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Personally, I don't mind the concept of a grind, when it's done right. Ever played The Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth? There's a game mode where you accumulate money by fighting swarming waves of enemies that can be used to purchase items, which increase your abilities and get you prepped for the tough final boss. However, a donation machine spawns after killing him, and you have the option to donate any coins you have left over before exiting the run. The amount you've donated is saved between runs, and there are certain new items that get unlocked at certain milestones (you get a new character, the final unlock, at 1000 coins). This creates an interesting strategy: do I use these coins to buy items that make me stronger and make it more likely that I'll survive, or save them for donation so I can get closer to those unlocks? The thing is... the machine has a chance to randomly jam and put an arbitrary cap on the amount of coins you can donate per run. And before it was patched, you often spent 35 minutes on a run to donate like 1 or 2 coins. That is a very, very bad grind. But if it's in some way optional (because regardless of the level of grindiness, there are players who will likely get turned off) and not too unreasonable (i.e., large time invested = relatively low reward) I would enjoy it myself. Put on some Totalbiscuit or RHCP and mine some ores between bouts of blasting Assault Enforcers' heads off with a shotgun

Yeah the amount won't be tied to a RNG, I dislike the whole concept of wasting people's time (hence why I don't play MMOs, I did reach max level in Vindictus but the only thing left was to grind raids and I have zero interest in that) - grinding is acceptable when you can get a good reward for just one session's worth. The idea is that high-tier stuff will cost a lot of resources, but one good mining session will have you set for at least several big purchases.

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PARDON ME? I figured Solari was a vampire, but... Wow. It makes a bit more sense now, how they were able to teleport in at certain spots. Is that why they wear those ominous Stormstooper-style black trenchcoats and gas masks, to protect themselves from sunlight? In that case, going off of my original suggestion, why not give Paradigm Elders other vampiric abilities at higher difficulty levels, like a life steal?

Bingo, that's exactly why - and also why flame attacks don't work on the Elders either. I am planning to add an actual vampiric sorcerer as well, so he will hopefully have lots of exotic and horrible abilities.

[TheDragonLiner]

Speaking of flames and hazards it could be interesting to give enemies improved hazard immunity.

For instance yellow Troopers wielding a freezthrower would be more resistant to freezing in higher difficulty, I've noticed that red cultists were already more resistant to flames so might as well keep it this way. Or for instance since Guardians are flame based creatures you could make them more resistant to flame attacks and so on ...

As for the Hub map idea I'm definitely up for that because like you said the New LA map serve absolutely no purpose right now, although you can still go read a book but once or twice is enough :/

About tiredness ..... if we die, is it for good ?
(just kidding ^^)

[Rhaisher]

As I said in 'AMC TC general', beating EP1 and EP2 in Armageddon difficulty was a feast of quick-save/quick-load. If you're planning on adding new enemy attacks/moves depending on the difficulty level and those attacks don't shred half of your life, you could even consider a way of limiting the quick-save feature to... let's say 3 times per map. However, it could be interesting to being able to upgrade this feature to... let's say 10 times per level spending base budget/credits. You could put an item in the character's PDU (a memory crystal of some sort) that shows how many 'saves' you have left. Being unlimited (∞) in normal and below. (Is that even doable? )

Speaking of which, I have an habit of saving after acquiring a speciality weapon/artifact because I dislike the 'amulet' that appears if you reload a save in the same level before getting the item in question. (Autosave after picking a special item could be nice )

Now for the HUB map features/buffs and so. I liked everything I read so far. Failing to rescue a civilian/babe (it could be interesting to include civilians other than scientists, so there's a chance of getting a random buff in some levels - in levels where a captured babe doesn't fit, that is) could increase the fatigue level as well.

Consider adding a gym where you can buff your physical attacks (isn't it awesome to blow heads off with an uppercut? ) and an 'American Fist' temporary weapon. This way you wouldn't have the 'fists' removed by a temporary weapon and a slight increment in physical attacks damage. (Random idea: getting electrified by a plug by touching it could charge the 'American Fist' with electric element, with the same advantages other electrical weapons have at the moment)

The mining mini-game would be awesome. I loved the mining feature in EP2, but it was a shame that you could only do it once. (Yeah, yeah... I know that it could be abused to acquire an enormous amount of base budget. But because of this it was fairly easy to maximize the amount of resources and being able to activate the supply drop-off in every single mission - if you get killed after the supply is 'on its way' and reload a previous save, the supply doesn't appear again until you order it in another run, BTW )

[Jolteon]

Just an idea, but I'd like to see some enemies return from Nuclear Showdown. More notably, the flying newbeasts.



I'd love to see these guys chase after you on higher difficulty skills.

[TheDragonLiner]

I've just thought of an interesting gameplay mechanic you guys could implement on higher difficulties (Pro or higher you'll understand why), I don't know if it's doable but ... :

Basically if we reload from a non-depleted magazine then we waste the ammo left in it. For instance if your gun has a 30 mag and you reload after having fired 10 rounds then you will lose the 20 rounds that were left in the magazine you've just used. It would not affect shell-by-shell SGs.

It would be an interesting mechanic but potentially harmful especially if using a 100 mag upgrade and reloading after having used 10 but I think it could be a very interesting and potentially challenging mechanic, as it would force the player not to reload for 1 bullet like 99% of players do.
But as I said if it's taken then it should be specific to either Pro or Armageddon.

[Micky C]

Wouldn't it be more realistic to simply swap out a half empty mag with a full one, saving the half empty one for later? But then it starts to get tricky to implement.

[TheDragonLiner]

Micky C, on 27 February 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Wouldn't it be more realistic to simply swap out a half empty mag with a full one, saving the half empty one for later? But then it starts to get tricky to implement.

This would be a potentially less harmful way of putting my suggestion but more tricky to implement indeed since you'd have to make the game "remember" the content of ALL the mags you have for ALL your guns which is clearly very demanding for the build engine.
I remember the SOCOM games used that kind of mechanic but they gave you 5 mags for 2 weapons and they'd get refilled with a checkpoint.