[Danukem]

Darkus, on 20 November 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

I like the idea of the limited ammo for the lightsaber, maybe you can make it work like an inventory item and when activated, you can use it for a limited time (like the steroids in DN3D, you can't disable it).

I hate inventory items, they require having extra keys assigned and players forget to use them. I would just make it a sub-weapon of fists which the player would use automatically on slot 1. I will probably have a few inventory items anyway, but not for weapons.

Darkus, on 20 November 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

Probably a good idea to make a hitscan weapon but I've also thought to make the blue dots faster than the regular laser to distiguish from others weapons (don't know if that works).

The more I think about it, the more I want it to be a machine pistol type of weapon. I can do something with the graphics and sound to make it seem high-tech, and give it some kind of status effect on enemies. Not sure if there should be shell casings.

Darkus, on 20 November 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

In the sequels, this weapon has an alt-fire, which shoot a powerful hitscan projectile, similar to the railgun.

Good to know. That would be easy to do.

Darkus, on 20 November 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

I don't know either, maybe you can keep the plasma cutter sprite, and make it shoot the regular FREEZEBLAST, so you have a 'bouncing projectiles' weapon type.
Or keep the cryobow with explosive freezing arrows but the sniper weapon type is already with the blaster rifle.

I actually like the cryobow, but I will grudgingly admit that the graphics for it do not fit with the style for the rest of the game. So I will most likely end up using the same projectile with a different weapon sprite.

[Forge]

there's the bouncing mortar gun for those tricky corners and doorways - i'd say stick with the current version of the crossbow - unless something strikes you as a must need for game purposes. (if you can get it to look more like chewbacca's from the movie that might be more aesthetically appealing to you )

Trooper Dan, on 20 November 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

The more I think about it, the more I want it to be a machine pistol type of weapon. I can do something with the graphics and sound to make it seem high-tech, and give it some kind of status effect on enemies. Not sure if there should be shell casings.

like some kind of 'needler' pistol?

[Danukem]

[xenoxols]

Ah, looks good. I see you haven't put the new muzzle flashes in yet. Also, the rifle's scope in animation looks kind of weird; I think it would be better for it to fade from black to the scope.

[Danukem]

xenoxols, on 21 November 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

Ah, looks good. I see you haven't put the new muzzle flashes in yet.

I will soon. One small issue though: the rifle doesn't have a frame with muzzle flash light baked into it. The other weapons have that, and I think it will be lackluster if the rifle doesn't.

xenoxols, on 21 November 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

Also, the rifle's scope in animation looks kind of weird; I think it would be better for it to fade from black to the scope.

The animation is just zooming in on the idle frame, so yes it looks a little weird. Ideally, we would have an actual animation of bringing the gun into position. I'm not sure what you mean by "fade from black to the scope". Do you mean the screen would instantly turn black, and then the black would fade into the scope view?

[t800]

This looks very promising, Trooper Dan. Concept of total conversions is almost dead nowadays (of course, not forgetting greats like AMC TC and WGR2 ) and surely another big Star Wars craze is upon us, so why not.

I have few questions:
- Will this require polymer renderer enabled? (Geussing from those videos with dynamic lights.)
- Will it also utilize 3D models (maybe for vehicle props like TIE Fighters and AT-STs?) and/or hi-res textures or are you aiming for "classic 8-bit" look only? (Or maybe some voxels?) Note that original Dark Forces did use some 3D models (like Death Star plans holoprojection, player's spaceship Moldy Crow, mouse droids, etc.)
- Gameplay mechanics will be closer to classic 90s FPSes, or more akin to modern style?
- Are you open to using some GFX rips from Jedi Knight 1? (I think some of its textures could match style after bit touch-ups) Or are you adhering only to Dark Forces resources?
- I presume this will be standalone project (not requiring DUKE3D.GRP file) such as AMC TC and WGR 2 are, right? (This would surely help spread it more around Star Wars community.)

So far I like direction you are taking, but I would suggest to make laser trails more noticeable (like more brighter and "glow-ier") and longer.
Also is this final decision to have them so fast? I dont know, if it is just me, but I feel like in other games and films they seem slower. But I understand it would slow down gameplay and I dont know for what kind of gameplay you are aiming for. (Dynamics closer to original Dark Forces, Duke 3D or something different?)
And I am honestly not fan of that Bryar pistol edit. Do you intend to make it glowing?

I have also few sprites propositions that maybe you could find interesting:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------
Firstly there is one mod for 3DGE (source port for DooM), made by CeeJay. It includes several nice enemy sprites. They are mostly edits of original sprites, but I think they fit nicely. And they could maybe bring bit more of monster variety and be more thematic to different enviroments.



IMO especially that scout trooper and snowtrooper would be nice for jungle and snowy enviroments respectively and more lore friendly. (Scout trooper could also fill in role of sniper, as it is in Battlefront series.)

Than, there is also lightsabre weapon, you could maybe use as base for yours.



I could find only one official link with it, but sadly it is broken now. Fortunately I found it on my harddisk, so here you are. I know that CeeJay dwell on Zdoom Forums, so maybe you could send him PM, and ask for permission.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------
Other than that, there is also DooM WAD called Darkest Hour, and it includes complete sprite set for Jawa:



You can download it here.

I recommend to use SLADE for ripping out these sprites and maybe you will stumble upon other nice finds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------

Anyways, good luck and I cant wait.

[Danukem]

t800, on 22 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

This looks very promising, Trooper Dan. Concept of total conversions is almost dead nowadays (of course, not forgetting greats like AMC TC and WGR2 ) and surely another big Star Wars craze is upon us, so why not.

I remember a time when 2D gaming was almost dead, and nowadays there is a glut of retro-styled 2D games that look even shittier than the ones popular when I was a teenager. The point being we shouldn't worry about a style of game being "almost dead". It's never to late to make a comeback. The main obstacle to getting people to play this will not be that it is old-fashioned. The obstacle will be distribution. But I don't care -- it's going to be awesome and I want to play it myself.

t800, on 22 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

- Will this require polymer renderer enabled? (Geussing from those videos with dynamic lights.)

No, no, no, with a big side of nope. it will run perfectly fine using Polymost as well. The polymer lights are just extra candy.

t800, on 22 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

- Will it also utilize 3D models (maybe for vehicle props like TIE Fighters and AT-STs?) and/or hi-res textures or are you aiming for "classic 8-bit" look only? (Or maybe some voxels?) Note that original Dark Forces did use some 3D models (like Death Star plans holoprojection, player's spaceship Moldy Crow, mouse droids, etc.)

It already uses a model for the laser bolts, so yes, some models will be used. However, the graphical style will be consistent. Any models in the game need to look like they belong. We cannot use voxels, though (even though they might look awesome) because I want to maintain compatibility with Polymer, and voxels do not work in Polymer. And yes, I know that Dark Forces used some models and I'm totally fine with that. I would also be happy to have HD skyboxes. However, consistency is important. I don't want to have a bunch of textures or enemies that are at a different resolution from the rest of the game, or some types of stormtroopers randomly being models, or anything shitty like that. There could be an HD pack some day that converts everything to models and hi-res, but that would be years down the road and will probably never happen.

t800, on 22 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

- Gameplay mechanics will be closer to classic 90s FPSes, or more akin to modern style?

Closer to classic 90s. I'm not a big fan of regenerating health, universal ammo, and infinitely respawning enemies, to name a few things. A lot of modern FPS features are aimed at making games more accessible (i.e. idiot proof), and online multiplayer friendly. But those aren't big concerns for me: The intended audience doesn't need to have their hands held, and this is a singleplayer game. A few other points: I don't want this to be a game where you run around back and forth in a level looking for a keycard or button to open a door somewhere...that's one thing about the 90's that can stay in the past. Also, while I personally enjoy games where you can level up and have a skill tree etc., I think that has been way overdone in modern years. There may be some minor, earnable perks as in Wolfenstein New Order, but this won't be Borderlands or Destiny or anything like that.

t800, on 22 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

- Are you open to using some GFX rips from Jedi Knight 1? (I think some of its textures could match style after bit touch-ups) Or are you adhering only to Dark Forces resources?
- I presume this will be standalone project (not requiring DUKE3D.GRP file) such as AMC TC and WGR 2 are, right? (This would surely help spread it more around Star Wars community.)

The models in Jedi Knight 1 look horrible, but I suppose some of the textures could work. As for distribution...that's a delicate subject. I'm not ready to talk about that and honestly I haven't thought about it very much.

t800, on 22 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

So far I like direction you are taking, but I would suggest to make laser trails more noticeable (like more brighter and "glow-ier") and longer.
Also is this final decision to have them so fast? I dont know, if it is just me, but I feel like in other games and films they seem slower. But I understand it would slow down gameplay and I dont know for what kind of gameplay you are aiming for. (Dynamics closer to original Dark Forces, Duke 3D or something different?)
And I am honestly not fan of that Bryar pistol edit. Do you intend to make it glowing?

The lasers are a work in progress. I need to get a better model and different variations on the model. By the way, they are more visible in-game than they are in the videos. The pistol edit doesn't look quite right in the videos I posted because it was converted to Duke palette (I fixed that last night). Yes it glows, but don't think of it as the Bryar pistol lol.

t800, on 22 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

I have also few sprites propositions that maybe you could find interesting:

Thanks, but I already have all that stuff and I have been using those resources. But I have limited time to code things into the game, so it will be a while before all the enemies and weapons are in.

[LeoD]

Trooper Dan, on 22 November 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

No, no, no, with a big side of nope. it will run perfectly fine using Polymost as well. The polymer lights are just extra candy.

Hm, from what I've seen elsewhere, it seems kind of problematic to achieve the desired level of brightness for both renderers at the same time when using Polymer lights. Of course I want candy, though.

[Danukem]

LeoD, on 22 November 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

Hm, from what I've seen elsewhere, it seems kind of problematic to achieve the desired level of brightness for both renderers at the same time when using Polymer lights. Of course I want candy, though.

That's true if you are using Polymer lights to actually light the level. But that's not an issue if the level uses old-fashioned shading, and then the Polymer lights (mostly from projectiles) are an optional addition.

But if a level designer did want to have a Polymer lit level, I could write code to detect the renderer and reduce shade values when the player uses Polymost. It would require the mapper to set some values on effectors so that the code knows what shade offsets to use, so it would be extra work, but it is feasible.

[Striker]

If you need to get all DF assets, just use SLADE: http://slade.mancubus.net/

You can use it to open DF GOB files. I'm also certain it can view BM and WAX files.

[Danukem]

StrikerMan780, on 25 November 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

If you need to get all DF assets, just use SLADE: http://slade.mancubus.net/

You can use it to open DF GOB files. I'm also certain it can view BM and WAX files.

Yes, I've been using Slade, thanks. Jblade recommended it to me on day 1.

News: Tea Monster made a new model for the laser bolts which looks great. I'll show it in a video soon.

[Danukem]

Anyone know where I can find a set of landspeeder sounds? I'm making a driveable vehicle, and the lack of correct sounds is the only thing holding it back at this point.

[Tea Monster]

[Danukem]

Tea Monster, on 26 November 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

That's good stuff, but I would have to divide it up into individual sounds and then figure out what to do with them. The challenge is that the player can stop or start accelerating at any moment, and from any arbitrary point on the spectrum. So if I start playing one of those long acceleration sounds when the player presses forward, it may not fit the input from a second later.

Lezing had a pretty good solution to this with his EBIKE. Start with a looping sound and simply increase or decrease the pitch. The catch is that if you restart the sound each time the pitch needs to change, then there will be an audible stutter. His workaround was to define a shitload of different sounds with different pitches, so that playing one did not require stopping the others. Overlapping sounds of different pitches would get played at the same time, but they were short and it sounded fine. But the sample he used sounds nothing like a landspeeder. With a looping, neutral landspeeder sample where the pitch is not changing, it might be possible to use his method and make it sound good.

[MusicallyInspired]

A good way to make a seamless loop is to take the constant sound to be looped, reverse it, and tack that on at the end. This works especially well for machine sounds as it can sound a bit mechanical.

[Fantinaikos]

Talking about SW vehicles, even the Speedbike will be in the mod? It is perfect to use on Skycar alike logic with a driver that sometime survive the impact.

Scout Trooper (two variants) + On Speedbike
http://lilfile.com/7NBcUe

Speedbike
 SPEED000.BMP (9.29K)
Number of downloads: 121

 SPEED001.BMP (8.13K)
Number of downloads: 103

I converted even more resources that might be useful as replacement or enemy expansion.

Take this opportunity to point out that www.df-21.net is back online after 7 years. However, the only way to download most of the content it is still use webarchive at the moment. If you want help the webmaster or wanna be part of the community it could be a good moment to do it.

[Danukem]

Here's a few more videos to show some progress. The first shows off Tea Monster's new laser model and a few new weapons. The second shows the WIP landspeeder.






Oh, and by the way: Duke Forces needs more level designers. Please PM me if you are interested in building levels for this. The mod is only about 10% complete but mapping can start now.

[LeoD]

Wow. This thing gains momentum pretty quick.

[xenoxols]

Washzing!

If you want to use it, I would recommend getting CeeJay's permission.

[Danukem]

xenoxols, on 27 November 2015 - 08:21 PM, said:

Washzing!
If you want to use it, I would recommend getting CeeJay's permission.

Very nice! It will probably be some time before I add the lightsaber, but I'll ask CeeJay.

EDIT: CeeJay says that the saber sprites were made by Scuba Steve many years ago. CeeJay only did some color edits on them.

[MusicallyInspired]

Cooooool. If I could map at all worth anything I'd offer my services.

[Gambini]

Trooper Dan, on 27 November 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

Lezing had a pretty good solution to this with his EBIKE. Start with a looping sound and simply increase or decrease the pitch. The catch is that if you restart the sound each time the pitch needs to change, then there will be an audible stutter. His workaround was to define a shitload of different sounds with different pitches, so that playing one did not require stopping the others. Overlapping sounds of different pitches would get played at the same time, but they were short and it sounded fine. But the sample he used sounds nothing like a landspeeder. With a looping, neutral landspeeder sample where the pitch is not changing, it might be possible to use his method and make it sound good.

What if you have two sounds (accelerating and decelerating) being looped at the same time and you toggle their volume to 0 conforming you accelerate or not?. This is more or less what some racing games do with sounds.

Speaking of vehicles, this scene in your mod would be the shit:

[Danukem]

To be honest, I have had very little practice manipulating sounds. There are some limitations in EDuke32 which make it challenging. Once a sound starts playing, it is possible to stop the sound completely, but you cannot change the volume or pitch of the sound or save the position of playback in the sound. My current solution (used in the video) plays a short looping engine sound which will restart with a different pitch depending on the vehicle's speed. In addition, a longer acceleration or deceleration sound will start playing if the player holds the accelerator or brake (and then stop if the player stops that input for long enough). The main issue I have with it is the frequent starting and stopping of the long acceleration sound.

[Danukem]

They blow up real good. You can't tell from this video, but the mines will sit there and flash and wait for enemies, and if you placed them yourself you can deactivate them and pick them up again. Just like the mines your grandpa used to make.

xenoxols edited the Dark Forces hand holding mine hud sprite to make it Duke's hand. Currently using an explosion animation from Muelsa's explosions pack -- liked it better than the Dark Forces one.

[Gambini]

Good work!

I think it´s a wise choice to replace those things you consider inferior, as long as you keep the feel (the explosion animation is a good example of this). I can´t tell for sure by watching your video, but I assume you will resize the explosion to fit the sector´s height (except when the ceiling is parallaxed). If you didn´t have that in mind, consider that the mushroom may clip the ceiling in tight areas, making it look weird.

[Danukem]

Gambini, on 04 December 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Good work!

I think it´s a wise choice to replace those things you consider inferior, as long as you keep the feel (the explosion animation is a good example of this). I can´t tell for sure by watching your video, but I assume you will resize the explosion to fit the sector´s height (except when the ceiling is parallaxed). If you didn´t have that in mind, consider that the mushroom may clip the ceiling in tight areas, making it look weird.

That's a good point. I'm not sure which would be worse, though -- clipping the top of the explosion, or an explosion that looks small and squashed. I'll try some experiments; maybe a compromise is best where it can shrink vertically to fit the space, but not beyond a minimum height.

[Danukem]

Many Bothans died to bring you this video...

[NightFright]

I really like where you are going with this. You are putting a lot of effort into details. With nice levels, this could turn into a big thing next year (or whenever you intend to release this)!

[Gambini]

If this video isn´t inspirational then i dont know what it is!

I would prefer to see the weapons of this game ripped as sprites, instead of the Dark Forces ones: (watch in hd and fullscreen for better experience)

[Danukem]

Gambini, on 13 December 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

If this video isn´t inspirational then i dont know what it is!

I would prefer to see the weapons of this game ripped as sprites, instead of the Dark Forces ones: (watch in hd and fullscreen for better experience)

Battlefront is an amazing looking game, but we can't compete with that and we have our own retro niche. If I rip sprite versions of those weapons, I think it will just make Duke Forces into a shitty copy and it will only highlight how inferior our graphics are.

Here is how I see our niche and the visual progression--

Duke Forces I: Mid-90's FPS graphics, combination of Duke 3D (1996) and Dark Forces (1995). Some models and HD for vehicles, skyboxes and explosions. That's because adding those more modern elements is very easy and adds some visual flare without comproming the core aesthetic, as long as they aren't overused (at least that is the hope).

Duke Forces II: Early 2000s graphics, combination of Duke HRP and Jedi Knight 2 (2002). JK2 ran on the quake 3 engine so models from it can be ported pretty easily. This would still be retro, but a later era of retro. I would rather have actual models as weapons than have sprite pics of models.