[Nukester10]

Ok I was wondering if instead of sitting there with a magnifying glass trying to paint over a texture size 32x32 "handswitch 1111" within Editart I could just simply copy this texture like you normally would with a normal texture work on it in paintshop pro then when it's complete place it back into Editart without there being any issues?

Has anyone attempted this before?

I know I've reimported normal textures before back into Editart at their original dimensions
and they worked fine for me, maybe it's a flip of the coin whether this will work or not?

[Spiker]

Make texture large for easy editing and workflow. Scale it down to desired dimentions after you're done. Just make sure you use the same palette of colors.

[Hendricks266]

Sure! All the best artists do their work outside of EDITART.

 Spiker, on 03 November 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

Make texture large for easy editing and workflow. Scale it down to desired dimentions after you're done.

Have you never heard of Zoom?

[Nukester10]

Are you saying make the texture larger within Editart or Paintshop Pro?

I think you're saying in Editart and if so,what do you mean by "make sure you use the same palette" I can't use any different colors beyond what's already shown in the texture!?

[Nukester10]

Hendricks266 said,

"Have you never heard of Zoom?"

There's a Zoom Key in Editart?
What key is that?

[OpenMaw]

 Nukester10, on 03 November 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Are you saying make the texture larger within Editart or Paintshop Pro?

I think you're saying in Editart and if so,what do you mean by "make sure you use the same palette" I can't use any different colors beyond what's already shown in the texture!?

No. God no. Nobody works within editart to edit textures except for very minor things. That would be a nightmare.

You want to export the texture, open it in your art program of choice and edit from there. Make sure you have a copy of the Palette handy (You can save the palette of the exported image, and then raise the color levels up to 16 million for easier editing in PSP, and then reload the palette when you're done. Just be ready to tweak whatever you do color-wise to fit the palette.)

[Spiker]

 Hendricks266, on 03 November 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

Have you never heard of Zoom?

Nope. It's better to start with large texture like 1024x1024 and only later making it 32x32 or any other size. Similar process to making icons (noone makes them small at first unless dumb). Working with so small amount of pixels is hard and inefficent and some tools may work in an undesired way (sharp pixels instead of smooth tranistion, problems with round selection being actually round etc).

@Nukster, use editart only for importing. Create textures in Photoshop or Gimp. Palette is a thing that will save you from making your stuff looking bad after you import it. Dunno if there is some Duke palette around here that you could use with these programs.

[Mark]

Here is what I remember being a Duke palette file I made a while back. Unzip it to your palettes subfolder in PSPro.

Attached File(s)

•  dukepalette.zip (1.2K)
  Number of downloads: 156

[Cage]

 Spiker, on 03 November 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Nope. It's better to start with large texture like 1024x1024 and only later making it 32x32 or any other size. Similar process to making icons (noone makes them small at first unless dumb). Working with so small amount of pixels is hard and inefficent and some tools may work in an undesired way (sharp pixels instead of smooth tranistion, problems with round selection being actually round etc).

Call me dumb then.



If you want to work in low res (like original Duke art), always work in the final resolution - making it right the first time is quicker than spending the same time on the texture and then wasting time on clean-up after you scale down. Especially since low resolutions make almost every pixel important.

[Kyanos]

Editart?? I've never used it, I run command line tools in dosbox. art2bmp and bmp2art. Find them here thank captain awesome, https://forums.duke4...d-modding-tools

Also in there should be grpstudio for getting at and replacing art files, and Dukeres is good too for adjusting x-y offsets.

Now with that said, all these may be obsolete with this new java program here BAFed - https://forums.duke4...s-editor-bafed/
^I've yet to give it a go...

[Spiker]

 Cage, on 03 November 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Call me dumb then.

Not to speak your mind too often. Quiet artist - poor artist.

[Mblackwell]

A large image scaled down and then blown up again (such as a wall texture viewed from a close distance) will always look inferior to one hand edited at the proper resolution. If you zoom in on such a texture it turns into a blurry (or sometimes worse: weirdly pixelated) mess, whereas what Cage posted has enough fine and properly suggested detail that it looks good at almost any scale.

In old games when they used photo sources (or high resolution renders), they would scale to the correct resolution and then hand edit over everything. The photograph was just a starting point.

[Spiker]

Maybe but knowledge of art doesn't make you a successful artist.



Cage's type of work (a crappy picture worth a few bucks).





My type of work (a true masterpiece worth really big money).

[Mblackwell]

I... honestly have no idea what the heck you're saying. You lost me with the last bit.

[Spiker]

Second picture is actually similar to a painting worth millions, the original doesn't have arrows and words. (no joke this time).

[Cage]

Guess Spiker is poking fun at me but I don't get it to be honest. Maybe he thought I'm offended or something but I'm not though Should have put a smiley in that message or something. Oh well, internet.

I just think you shouldn't call a certain method dumb because you work differently - I've been in this long enough to know that there are people who do things radically differently from you and have awesome results. Art isn't maths.

To OP:

If you're replacing art for something based on Eduke32 (Not vanilla Duke) you might want to skip editart and just use the .def file. You can use hightile for high resolution stuff and for low-res paletted stuff you can use tilefromtexture

That's regarding replacing/importing textures, regarding editing just use a normal graphics program (Photoshop, Gimp, whatever). Editart's capabilities are very limited. Even original Duke3d artists used other tools for creating the textures.

[Spiker]

It's cool, I just like joking. The red line in the painting is actually a leash if you couldn't get it from my mockup and thats a true genuine work which is very pricy. I just wanted to show that as a example that the art is something which cannot be really measured with skill. Of course I apprieciete all of Cage's work and may study or refrence it in the future as well to learn some new techniques.

[Nukester10]

Cage said,

"If you want to work in low res (like original Duke art), always work in the final resolution - making it right the first time is quicker than spending the same time on the texture and then wasting time on clean-up after you scale down. Especially since low resolutions make almost every pixel important."

Cage you're artwork is excellent!

How did you do this though being there isn't any zoom key in Editart?

What I'd also like to know though is the proper way of doing this,you never explained in detail step by step starting from painting over the tile you chose to paint over?

I hope my explanation is correct in detailing how I think this is done but correct me if I'm wrong on any of this,

1. Choose the tile you want in Editart to paint over. If the tile is 32x32 then resize it to 1024x1024 after that press the (B) key to export.

2.Next after importing and finishing the artwork on this 1024x1024 file you resize the file back down to 32x32 again and save it as either 1of 3 file types: Bmp pcx or gif but before reimporting this finished file back into Editart go back to Editart first and resize down the tile you copied earlier from 1024x1024 back to it's original size 32x32

3.Finally import the file by pressing the (U key) and go down the list and pick the file you just finished working on and press (Enter).

Does that pretty much sum up how you do this? It sounds like it makes sense to me but if there's anything that I either should have added or I left out let me know?

[The Mechanic]

 Nukester10, on 04 November 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

1. Choose the tile you want in Editart to paint over. If the tile is 32x32 then resize it to 1024x1024 after that press the ( key to export.

2.Next after importing and finishing the artwork on this 1024x1024 file you resize the file back down to 32x32 again and save it as either 1of 3 file types: Bmp pcx or gif but before reimporting this finished file back into Editart go back to Editart first and resize down the tile you copied earlier from 1024x1024 back to it's original size 32x32

3.Finally import the file by pressing the (U key) and go down the list and pick the file you just finished working on and press (Enter).

Pretty much it.

I'd recommend saving as a GIF - when I tried BMP, Build screwed the image up.

I can't say whether or not enlarging the image is good or bad - I suck at art. However note that your image editor may only offer a reduced selection of effects because the original image is 256 colours and many graphics programs want 24-bit colour before applying effects (certainly the case with PaintShop Pro 7 wot I use). If you do increase the number of colours then you should save the palette first, then reduce back to 256 colours using the saved palette (or use Mark's palette file in post #8).

As you are replacing an existing tile with another of the same size, EditArt will import it as you said.

TTFN,
Jon

PS: I'm guessing you are replacing switch texture with a door texture and you will find 32x32 is too low resolution and want something a bit bigger. This is where EditaArt becomes a real PITA ! If you too find EditArt refuses to handle the simple concept of importing an image in the images original damn dimensions (grrr, fecking thing!) take a look capfil.txt, I found manually entering my new image here before opening EditArt often fixed it.

[Nukester10]

Something is wrong here!?

I went into Editart as instructed and chose the tile 1111 "handswitch" it's size is 32x32

Next I tryed to enlarge this tile to 1024x1024 by pressing the (S) key and this is what happened,it came out like this,

1024x102

Editart would not allow me to put in the last 4 now what's up with that!?

Next I even went into the
capfil.text file for this same tile and changed it from 32,32 to 1024,1024 saved it and went back into Editart and tried it again and still the same thing!?

1024x102

I don't get it!?

[Danukem]

Do you need to use editart? You can get the tile the way you want it in a modern editor, save it as bmp or png, then use the tilefromtexture def command to put it in the game. AFAIK this will work fine even with the classic renderer. Of course you will have to make sure that the image uses the Duke 3D palette, but you were going to do that anyway.

[Nukester10]

Trooper Dan said,

"Do you need to use editart? You can get the tile the way you want it in a modern editor, save it as bmp or png, then use the tilefromtexture def command to put it in the game. AFAIK this will work fine even with the classic renderer. Of course you will have to make sure that the image uses the Duke 3D palette, but you were going to do that anyway."

Yes and No

Yes I need Editart to copy the tile but No I have Paintshop Pro and I'm not going to copy a 32x32 tile upload it to PSP resize it to 1024x1024 do the artwork then resize it back down to 32x32 and expect it to look right. Why not? Because I've already tried this
and the tile comes out looking nothing like it did before. It's very blah! looking and there's a major amount of pixels missing to no surprise.

Why would I use tilefromtexture?
what does that tell Editart to do,

"shrink this tile but keep the artwork looking the same."

You know it's funny I remember in the early 2000's I didn't have broadband back then but I did have 56k and I used to frequent this website called Excitechat.After a while I noticed this website evolve from simple avatars to what they called, "MegaAvatars"

Now generally speaking the size of an avatar is approximately 32x32 and the size of a Mega is 128x128 and people loved these Mega's because they could showoff their artwork on them more easily and there where even Mega artists who you could hire to create a custom
Mega for you.

Where am I going with this?

The reason I mentioned this is because I think there's a major similarity in resizing Editart textures,painting them and hoping they come out looking the same when you shrink them and creating MegaAvatars.

Now I know I had a tutorial on this written down somewhere I just have to find it or I might be able to get one online.

PSP has a optimization tool you use for creating MegaAvatars it's for Jpegs and gifs.This tool compresses these files so that they come out the way you want when you shrink them down.

This all may be overkill but without me being fully explained on what's going on I can't think of any other way of doing this that'll work and keep me from going round and round.

[Hendricks266]

 Nukester10, on 04 November 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Next I tryed to enlarge this tile to 1024x1024 by pressing the (S) key and this is what happened,it came out like this,

You should ignore everything Spiker has said, particularly about resizing. As far as I know, he has never made any 8-bit art.

 Nukester10, on 04 November 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Trooper Dan said,

On the bottom-right of every post, there is a button called "Reply" that you can click to write a new post with that post in quote tags.

Alternatively, you can click the "MultiQuote" button for every post you want to quote, if you want to quote more than one, and then you can click Add Reply at the bottom of the page.

[The Mechanic]

 Nukester10, on 04 November 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Editart would not allow me to put in the last 4 now what's up with that!?

I suspect that image size is too big for EditArt. Have you tried 256x256 instead ? I dont think any standard textures are as big as 1024 - when EditArt was written most people were probably using monitors that were lower resolution than that!

My rule with EditArt is you must do the absolute _minimum_ in EditArt, at least if you value your sanity. Export an existing image so that you get a 256-colour image complete with the correct palette in it. Resize/edit in an external package - I use PSP but I've also used the free GIMP. Save as a GIF. Import into EditArt whilst crossing fingers that it bothers to use the actual image's dimension.

 Nukester10, on 04 November 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Why would I use tilefromtexture?
what does that tell Editart to do,

Nothing ! It is a much later addition supported by Eduke where you can use a .DEF file to specify textures. Haven't yet tried this, but if it avoids using EditArt I'm damn sure I'm gonna start using it !

TTFN,
Jon

[Spiker]

 Hendricks266, on 04 November 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

You should MUST ignore everything Spiker SAYS!!! has said, particularly about resizing. As far as I know, he has never made any 8-bit art.

I fixed it for you

[Tea Monster]

Has anyone told him that EDuke will accept 24 bit PNG files?

...

(runs for cover)

[Hendricks266]

Sure, and then your custom tile won't match the rest of the game.

[Nukester10]

 Tea Monster, on 05 November 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Has anyone told him that EDuke will accept 24 bit PNG files?

No nobody told me that, I guess the art quality would look a lot more nicer under 24 bit but would it make things any easier as far as exporting and reimporting under Editart?

That's what this is really all about,

You probably read this entire thread Tea but maybe you didn't anyhow,

All I want to do is take that 1111 "handswitch" 2- tile from Editart and paint it to look like a steeldoor with a wooden bar across it so that when a player walks up and clicks on the door the tile changes to the second that has the wooden beam angled so as the door is opened.

Now I have tryed going from 32x32 on this tile to enlarging it to 1024x1024 and like I said earlier Editart's answer to that was,

1024x102 ← no last digit possible!?

So I haven't even been to first base on this.

I could try as suggested 32x32 to 256x256 but even after I tried earlier 32x32 to 1024x1024 and like i said after Editart refused for me to get that last digit I even went and tried changing the capfil.text from 32,32 to 1024,1024 and that didn't work either!? Probably because the hardcode wouldn't allow it.

Tea Monster how would you go about doing this?

[The Mechanic]

 Tea Monster, on 05 November 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Has anyone told him that EDuke will accept 24 bit PNG files?

...

(runs for cover)

Not on my machine it doesn't. I assume this is because I'm running render mode 0, though there is no mention of this restriction in the wiki. (No, I didn't forget r_detailmapping).

TTFN,
Jon

[The Mechanic]

 Nukester10, on 05 November 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

I could try as suggested 32x32 to 256x256 ...

But _did_ you try 256x256 ? Has one less digit , plus I think original Duke3D uses that size so it should work.

 Nukester10, on 05 November 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Tea Monster how would you go about doing this?

I'm sure he'll recommend this wiki page . (Goes and reads it himself) er, ok, hey Tea Monster, got a working example ?

TTFN,
Jon