[ck3D]

very nice map. as it's been said before by others, perfect blend of modern design and kickass traditional gameplay. liked how it had just one definite central theme as well, something many modern maps (including mine) tend to overlook in favor of recreating wide environments (whole cities etc.) instead, thereby stepping aside the traditionalism of the original levels for a minute. took me 25 mins, found 2 secrets, thought the difficulty was just right although I did die a few times. cellar was my favorite part, reminded me of the Construction Destruction map in Duke Hard (to be fair it wasn't hard to spot your occasional sources of inspiration here and there, but they were subtle and integrated with style). didn't really keep track of how many areas I had to visit and how many switches I had to trigger in order to finally unlock the next areas in order to progress, but running in circles around the map trying to find where to go next and going after the respawning monsters eventually did the job. I had some fun ! thanks for sharing

[MetHy]

I got that wrong with the switches inside the bar in my previous comment. I thought you needed to press a switch to open the elevator leading to the cellar, and that there were several of those same switches scattered throughout the bar. Turns out those switches scattered throughout the bar only open different doors of different rooms of the bar. The elevator doesn't seem to be locked, at all; meaning that you can go straight to it, press the switch which open the exit door, and leave; and this without even visiting most of the bar.

Honestly, while I believe that the vast majority of players will be checking the entire bar before going to the cellar, and that the few who won't will check the entire bar anyway after going to the cellar, I think it would have been better to have that elevator locked one way or another (the key/switch could be located on the other side of the bar so that the players has to go around at least one way around).
This would have given a purpose to visiting different rooms of the bar, instead on my first play I kept finding switches which in the end I didn't even need to press because I had pressed the equivalent switch on the other side, and so on. I was a bit confused, thus thinking one (or several) of those switches unlocked the elevator.

I guess that brings up a rather interesting question: does the player even need a purpose ? As far usermaps go, this bar area shows that, well, not really. Hell, according to the comments, nobody seems to even have noticed what I'm bringing up here.
Players will be visiting the map and be killing aliens anyway, with or with no purpose, because that's what they're here for. However, I think most players will expect a purpose (as simple as finding a key or a switch) and not giving that purpose may be a little misleading.

Or maybe that's just me having a too traditional way of concieving usermaps, then again not many mappers would make 1/3rd of their map optional.

[quakis]

MetHy, on 28 August 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

The elevator doesn't seem to be locked, at all; meaning that you can go straight to it, press the switch which open the exit door, and leave; and this without even visiting most of the bar. [...] I think it would have been better to have that elevator locked one way or another (the key/switch could be located on the other side of the bar so that the players has to go around at least one way around).

Perhaps keeping the first employee door locked with a broken switch nearby might have been enough incentive to explore either the left or right side of the bar, because what you say is true. Later in development I changed the intended path to what it is now - originally players would go out the back first and then enter the cellars with a red key card with different plans beyond that point. However resources were running thin (16305 walls!) to execute the ideas, so the back alley eventually became the final destination instead. Had I planned the route as it stands while working on the pub's layout, this might have been addressed sooner. Case in point as MickyC suggested; design the map around gameplay.

I honestly don't mind that problem too much though; it can be an extra bonus for completionists. My overall goal was a simple romp with some degree in interconnectivity along the lines of the original levels - some of which can also be completed without seeing certain areas. E1L1 and E4L2 come to mind. I didn't want to rail road the player too much by forcing them to see everything - just another part of my experimentation when designing gameplay differently to how I used to. There's still plenty to think about and experiment with in future too.

[Paul B]

Well, i've played through the map and it took me 33 minutes. I found 3 out of the 4 secrets on my first play through and there was no way I could have found that 4th secret it was a tough one to find (you already know which one that is). I played it on Let's Rock difficulty and I didn't really have too many problems with ammo there always seemed to be several guns to choose from and the health was plentiful. However, I found there wasn't a lot of shottie ammo, this probably was intended since it tends to be an over used weapon. I thought I was going to be let down with the game play but I wasn't. You didn't make it impossible to survive and along with all the great detail you gave the player enough room to dodge, dip, duck, dive and dodge. You placed the AI well allowing for the player to take-in all the details without being raped. I made the mistake of playing the map with the Polymer render in Windows 7. Probably not a great idea because I suffered from 6 - 15 fps even with the Polymer lights off. I'm sure it plays a heck of a lot better in a different renderer mode. Anyway, the eye candy was incredible its really hard to believe this can all be pulled off with the original art, this map was totally worth the wait and one of my top favorite maps, a master piece.

Thanks!

[Gambini]

MetHy, on 28 August 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

I got that wrong with the switches inside the bar in my previous comment. I thought you needed to press a switch to open the elevator leading to the cellar, and that there were several of those same switches scattered throughout the bar. Turns out those switches scattered throughout the bar only open different doors of different rooms of the bar. The elevator doesn't seem to be locked, at all; meaning that you can go straight to it, press the switch which open the exit door, and leave; and this without even visiting most of the bar.

Honestly, while I believe that the vast majority of players will be checking the entire bar before going to the cellar, and that the few who won't will check the entire bar anyway after going to the cellar, I think it would have been better to have that elevator locked one way or another (the key/switch could be located on the other side of the bar so that the players has to go around at least one way around).
This would have given a purpose to visiting different rooms of the bar, instead on my first play I kept finding switches which in the end I didn't even need to press because I had pressed the equivalent switch on the other side, and so on. I was a bit confused, thus thinking one (or several) of those switches unlocked the elevator.

I guess that brings up a rather interesting question: does the player even need a purpose ? As far usermaps go, this bar area shows that, well, not really. Hell, according to the comments, nobody seems to even have noticed what I'm bringing up here.
Players will be visiting the map and be killing aliens anyway, with or with no purpose, because that's what they're here for. However, I think most players will expect a purpose (as simple as finding a key or a switch) and not giving that purpose may be a little misleading.

Or maybe that's just me having a too traditional way of concieving usermaps, then again not many mappers would make 1/3rd of their map optional.

I actually had a similar feel when i found my way around the garage door but then pushed a switch, later, that opened it. I didn´t mention this because I can´t describe it in detail as I was rather focused on not getting stuck (it was the first duke map that i played in probably 2 years). And eventually it wasn´t a big deal since I visited all areas and kept progressing. But had I managed to skip such an important section (the first two areas of the map are the best designed) I would have tried to let him know.

[Mark]

I'm not much of a player so I usually go around a map in God mode and noclip looking at the technical side of things. WOW, a visual masterpiece. I never stop being amazed at the creative use of sprites. I loved all the shading,props and trim details. Its easy to see why eveyone is so excited to play your maps.

[Helixhorned]

Played it recently and was blown away.

quakis, on 27 August 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

Overall impressions suggest that my experiment with tight supplies early on might have been too stingy in the long run for most players. Only after that hurdle is cleared it appears players had a much better time. Having tested this a dozen times it actually became difficult to entirely notice this problem even after both my testers had similar experiences. Honestly speaking I didn't expect players to have that much trouble even after throwing in extra pistol clips and health. Oops! Gameplay has always been a weak area of mine so I took the opportunity to improve in that aspect here, including some experimentation. My intended goal was to create a tough start by not simply providing the usual linear weapon progression right away and to get more use out of the pistol beyond distant sniping. Definitely a big whoops on my behalf, but it's also valuable feedback to consider when designing gameplay in future.

It's true that the start is challenging, but I think that you rather succeeded with your goal. Usually, I'm pretty quick to get demoralized when having to face anything tougher than troopers or slimers with only a pistol, but here it was different. At no time I felt overwhelmed despite occasionally being short on ammo. Rather, these situations resulted in original melee fights such as kicking piggies to death, hiding behind columns from their attacks. Another nice touch was

Spoiler

the need to face the battlelord without RPG (or maybe I missed a secret area). So, the freezer had to do the job, which was good fun.

[Mateos]

Outstanding work, thank you for taking to time to make it as a whole new level

[sergey808a]

Great map!
This is new level of DN3D maps detalization! I'm surprised!
Best looking map of 2015 year.
Thanks!

[Daedolon]

Helixhorned, on 30 August 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

slimers with only a pistol

But you use the mighty foot to kill them with no detrimental effects.

[pmw]

Extremely beautiful map. Just played it. Feels like made by professionals.
Details of this level is just amazing. But one thing is really common that bothers me on almost every map.

This map has it too. Everything is super detailed, but:


World ends pretty quickly.. I would love to see more innovating borders for map. I think this kind of solution is not offering the same amazing feel than rest of this map.

Anyway, the most beautiful map I've played in decades. Not much to play thought, pretty simple gameplay here.

[Merlijn]

Kick ass map! The quality of the trimming, design and the eye for detail really stood out! Even loved the tiniest details you managed to put into this, such as the flowers outside or the various joke signs (loan sharks lol). The bar itself actually felt like a believable real life location, really cool.

I actually thought the unlinearity worked to its advantage. You could just explore the place without having to push some obligatory buttons.

Gameplay was challenging but didn't feel too unfair, I died during my first attempt but managed to get past the beginning the second time. The trick is to shoot the RPV down after it moved away from you. After that, there's enough distance to easily take out the pig cop.

Anyway, thanks for releasing this! It felt really fresh and creative.

[Jan Satcitananda]

Very cool. Undoubtedly A+ for design and layout; the map has got a nice feel and plays really well, yet pretty straightforward overall. What to note is a lot of fresh and inspiring eyecandy here and there. The 3D flowers you placed by the road are so cute =3 The signs are quite interesting as well. Also it's kinda hilarious to see an iphone in a 1996 game, lol. Great work Quakis, felicitations to you on completing this awesome level!

[PsychoGoatee]

Just played this, very good stuff! Impressed with the uber detail and great lighting and little touches of course, and it played well with a nice feel to the pace. I liked how you use the microphone to taunt the aliens, a cool clever touch.

Also good that there was a hooker in the map. Just because, I'd be offended if there wasn't one. (The obligatory joke. Or am I joking... )

[LeoD]

Holy shit, this is amazing! I love all the detail you've put into this. And the gameplay fits very well, too.
One more highlight in this really good year of releases.

quakis, on 24 August 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Not intended or designed for the HRP, keep this in mind if used.

Especially in this case, maphacks make a BIG difference.

[Danukem]

This is one of the best looking maps ever made for Duke 3D. Very impressive use of the original tileset. My favorite room was the one with the custom detailed arcade machines and the mirrors with decals.

[David B.]

I liked especially that Irish pub theme and its realistic design. I played it twice.

[Radar]

I have no where else to post this so I'll just put it here. SPEED RUN of The Flaming Shipwreck completed in 1:15.

[Dukebot]

This map was released long time ago but I managed to play it today. It reminded me of the classic Duke Nukem 3D maps but with a lot more details and realism. The level it's not too hard, and it took me 30 min to complete to the end. I can appreciate the effort that the author put on this map because it's extremly well detailed. It has a lot of very small interesting details. Also mention great work with texturing, architecture, shadowing and sprite work. Love how the scneario looks with all of those details and sprites, this is a great urban map.