[Mr. Tibbs]

http://www.rockpaper...05/13/best-fps/

Quote

“What about Duke Nukem 3D?” The first level’s incredible, the rest is not and it’s sure as hell not as funny as it was in the 90s.

No Wolf3D, no Heretic, no Hexen, no Outlaws, no Blood, no DN3D, no Sin, no Kingpin, no Soldier of Fortune, no Unreal, no UT99, no Return to Castle Wolfenstein, no Shadow Warrior, no Prey.

[Daedolon]

Classic RPS.

EDIT: Hilariously they're recommending Shadow of Mordor for fans of Dishonored and Five Nights at Freddy's for Alien: Isolation fans (which, apparently is a shooter now as well as being based on the 1986 Aliens movie).

Should not have expected anything else from RPS.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Duke Nukem is not socially justicey enough for this brave new world.

[brownfarted]

Cock, Toilet Paper, Shitgun

[duke64nukem]

Duke Nukem, Turok, Blood, Shadow Warrior I don't need any others honestly. List sucks

[Jinroh]

Duke64Ghost, on 13 May 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Duke Nukem, Turok, Blood, Shadow Warrior I don't need any others honestly. List sucks

I thought the same thing, no Turok, no Duke, no Shadow Warrior, no Redneck Rampage. Fuck, no Power Slave. Shogo made it at least. What's the mean age of the people behind this list?

[HulkNukem]

Doom being #1 and not Call of Duty or Halo saves this fucking list

[Hank]

Is it a list that counts? Didn't know Thief is an FPS, nor have I heard of Action Quake, but then I don't know shit.
Anyway, who cares, I have my own favs, which in turn no one cares about.

[Jinroh]

Hank, on 13 May 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

Is it a list that counts? Didn't know Thief is an FPS, nor have I heard of Action Quake, but then I don't know shit.
Anyway, who cares, I have my own favs, which in turn no one cares about.

I thought the same thing about Thief and Action Quake. Just struck me as a bunch of hipsters who think they know something about FPS games. Though I thought they moved away from websites and onto Youtube or something ages ago.

[MetHy]

RPS were the ones who leaked their press release of Amnesia: The Dark Descent for piracy before release of the game.
This was known from a sure source btw, the forum admin of the devs' website.

This shows the kind of mentality that goes on there, I haven't clicked on a single RPS link since.

[Jblade]

I stopped visiting RPS when Nathan 'Whale-hunter' Grayson said that the Sonic Megadrive games were bad.

[Micky C]

Jblade, on 14 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

I stopped visiting RPS when Nathan 'Whale-hunter' Grayson said that the Sonic Megadrive games were bad.

It's easy to criticize, but I don't see you writing your own game blog.

/Jk

[Jblade]

I maintain a strict update schedule of when-I-can-be-bothered I'll have you know

[Gambini]

What´s funny is that they put Doom first as if "yeah we are die-hard fps players and know our classics" then it comes with Stalker, Metro 2033!! TC: Rainbow six vegas 2??? Not to mention their omissions. What´s sad is that there will be lot of kids reading and believing their shit.

[MusicallyInspired]

Stupid list is stupid.

[Duke of Hazzard]

It's a shit list since Duke3D pushed the genre forward in ways even Quake which was more advanced didn't.

Wolf3D, though, IMO doesn't deserve to be in a top 50 list. Yes, it was the first, and yes, there's a great, albeit small, modding community around it, but the barebones game aged terribly, is repetitive, lacks weapon variety, feels claustrophobic, and can be punishing (mutants on Death Incarnate come to mind).

Shadow Warrior probably wouldn't make any top 50 lists on a mainstream site either since it's too "offensive" to Azns and the politically correct shit world of today.

Jblade, on 14 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

I stopped visiting RPS when Nathan 'Whale-hunter' Grayson said that the Sonic Megadrive games were bad.

I bet this Nathan Grayson fellow couldn't beat Sonic 1 nor get any of the Chaos Emeralds without cheats.

[Jblade]

I'd argue for Wolf3D's inclusion, because it did kickstart the action genre even though not in the same way as Doom did. Duke3D's exclusion is nothing but pandering to an agenda, because it did indeed contribute a fucking MASSIVE amount to the genre. I could go on about it but even just naming one of the things, it was the first game to actually try and model levels in a way that both fit gameplay but also fit a narrative purpose. Later levels did sway more heavily towards DM play (I would say that E3 is the one episode the most 'guilty' of this, with a couple of exceptons) rather than SP but they were incredibly talented at level design. The enemies were designed to be more cinematic and interesting rather than just purely with gameplay in mind (Each one has it's own neat trick to play) To shit over that because of the raunchy material is blatant and pathetic political-driven bullshit. Half-life took more ques from Duke3D than it did Quake when it came to game design.

[Jinroh]

Jblade, on 15 May 2015 - 06:11 AM, said:

I'd argue for Wolf3D's inclusion, because it did kickstart the action genre even though not in the same way as Doom did. Duke3D's exclusion is nothing but pandering to an agenda, because it did indeed contribute a fucking MASSIVE amount to the genre. I could go on about it but even just naming one of the things, it was the first game to actually try and model levels in a way that both fit gameplay but also fit a narrative purpose. Later levels did sway more heavily towards DM play (I would say that E3 is the one episode the most 'guilty' of this, with a couple of exceptons) rather than SP but they were incredibly talented at level design. The enemies were designed to be more cinematic and interesting rather than just purely with gameplay in mind (Each one has it's own neat trick to play) To shit over that because of the raunchy material is blatant and pathetic political-driven bullshit. Half-life took more ques from Duke3D than it did Quake when it came to game design.

Yeah not to mention that Wolf3D sold like hot cakes and afforded the iD Team the money to buy Ferarris or whatever. It was also a massive decline in productivity at offices. Streamlining the gameplay and whipping up a fast and furious FPS game, compared to say Catacombs.

[HulkNukem]

Jinroh, on 15 May 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

Yeah not to mention that Wolf3D sold like hot cakes and afforded the iD Team the money to buy Ferarris or whatever. It was also a massive decline in productivity at offices. Streamlining the gameplay and whipping up a fast and furious FPS game, compared to say Catacombs.

Doom did that ten times over AND had multiplayer

Can't argue Wolf3D's importance, however it does not hold up well. I know I could come up with 50 FPS games I'd rather play instead.

[ReaperMan]

Where is Super Noahs Ark 3d!

[Lunick]

ReaperMan, on 15 May 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Where is Super Noahs Ark 3d!

DAMN IT, I just thought of this one this morning

[MrBlackCat]

ReaperMan, on 15 May 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Where is Super Noahs Ark 3d!

Below... and on my shelf... around the corner from Catacombs.


Sure Catacombs was EGA, but for the time it was amazing. Wolf over-shadowed it quickly, but still, it was "see what id can REALLY do!" pre-Wolf. While Wolf was a huge, rather short lived, defining moment in FPS history, technologically, Catacombs was "required" for Wolf to exist. John Carmack said that by the time they had finished Catacomb 3D, he was "disgusted with the technology". He knew could do better, even at that time, with little or no change to current computer technology, in VGA... and he did... it was called Wolfenstein 3D.

MrBlackCat

[Balls of Steel Forever]

No Ultima Underworld? It wasn't even mentioned... Why? Sure it's outdated, but so is Wolf 3d, and at least Wolf 3d was bloody mentioned. And Ultima Underworld was the first true revision of the fps, not Wolf 3d (Leaving it ahead). Ultima Underworld wasn't even an underrated gem, it had a nice success of 500,000 copies sold which is really good for its time. I guess people tend to forget the origin of things, that's fine, I do it too, but not mentioning the name of your real grandfather, and instead mentioning a more popular and well renowned man, is absolutely and unmistakably unforgivable.

[Duke of Hazzard]

Jblade, on 15 May 2015 - 06:11 AM, said:

I'd argue for Wolf3D's inclusion, because it did kickstart the action genre even though not in the same way as Doom did. Duke3D's exclusion is nothing but pandering to an agenda, because it did indeed contribute a fucking MASSIVE amount to the genre. I could go on about it but even just naming one of the things, it was the first game to actually try and model levels in a way that both fit gameplay but also fit a narrative purpose. Later levels did sway more heavily towards DM play (I would say that E3 is the one episode the most 'guilty' of this, with a couple of exceptons) rather than SP but they were incredibly talented at level design. The enemies were designed to be more cinematic and interesting rather than just purely with gameplay in mind (Each one has it's own neat trick to play) To shit over that because of the raunchy material is blatant and pathetic political-driven bullshit. Half-life took more ques from Duke3D than it did Quake when it came to game design.

In Duke, LA Meltdown is the best at doing narrative line. I couldn't feel it as much in the other episodes, excluding The Birth of course which was just pure mindfuckery and an "EP" sort of thing much like Thy Flesh Consumed before it (Doom's story was wrapped up by Inferno, IMO Thy Flesh Consumed is just a set of hardcore levels for enthusiasts with little to no story implied).

Regarding the politically correct backlash against it, it's a bit childish. If people want games to be accepted as art, they're going to have to accept that a game that pushes forward ideas they dislike can still have great value because of it's intangibles (gameplay). Leni Riefenstahl's films were mostly Nazi propaganda, but she was incredibly talented as a director. People need to learn to separate both. I don't like the idea of a game like Hatred for example, but it could have innovative ideas. And Duke is far from being offensive. It's very over-the-top and oozes testosterone in a silly way, and that's why it's great.

[Jinroh]

Haha of course, but were making a case for Wolf3D.

Haha c'mon man, Wolf3D is different enough in its tactics and gameplay that it merits being on such a list. Sneaking around deaf guards, guards hearing you and hunting from other rooms, closing doors on them, etc. It's a refreshing change when you've played DOOM or Duke for a while. And still a damn good experience at that.

HulkNukem, on 15 May 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Doom did that ten times over AND had multiplayer

Can't argue Wolf3D's importance, however it does not hold up well. I know I could come up with 50 FPS games I'd rather play instead.

[Forge]

Give a retarded monkey a keyboard and enough time it will eventually bang out a story. Nobody ever said it would be a good story

[Jblade]

Quote

In Duke, LA Meltdown is the best at doing narrative line. I couldn't feel it as much in the other episodes, excluding The Birth of course which was just pure mindfuckery and an "EP" sort of thing much like Thy Flesh Consumed before it (Doom's story was wrapped up by Inferno, IMO Thy Flesh Consumed is just a set of hardcore levels for enthusiasts with little to no story implied).

Yeah - I definitely don't want to insult E2 and E3's level design but the progression wasn't as well woven as in episode one, but it's par for the course for the Build games to have a fantastic shareware episode and then a 'merely' good main package (SW's shareware episode was similar, where a ton of cool stuff was packed into 4 levels whereas in the main episode it was spread out across the 20 or so levels)

The Birth did have a good base for a storyline but it was kind of a random clusterfuck of cobbled together old maps with only the start and last few levels that really carried the story on. It was still a great expansion all together though.

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

Jblade, on 16 May 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Yeah - I definitely don't want to insult E2 and E3's level design but the progression wasn't as well woven as in episode one, but it's par for the course for the Build games to have a fantastic shareware episode and then a 'merely' good main package (SW's shareware episode was similar, where a ton of cool stuff was packed into 4 levels whereas in the main episode it was spread out across the 20 or so levels)

The Birth did have a good base for a storyline but it was kind of a random clusterfuck of cobbled together old maps with only the start and last few levels that really carried the story on. It was still a great expansion all together though.

I think E3 did just a good job of weaving the levels together as E1 did. Some of the levels are a little oddball, like Flood Zone being next to a bank, but it's not more weird than an isolated porn movie theatre having a hidden hallway in it's arcade that leads to an elevator in a nearby building that sends you to an isolated street with a porn shop, a strip club, and a demolition setup right in front of a strip club.

[OpenMaw]

Which is why if a remake of the old Duke maps was ever done, either in a full on remake of the game or a "Knee Deep in the Zdoom" style, i'd want to see the "dead ends" replaced with wreckage or destroyed tunnels/overpasses. Just to give it a little more realism.

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

Commando Nukem, on 16 May 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Which is why if a remake of the old Duke maps was ever done, either in a full on remake of the game or a "Knee Deep in the Zdoom" style, i'd want to see the "dead ends" replaced with wreckage or destroyed tunnels/overpasses. Just to give it a little more realism.

It'd be neat if the barriers depending on themes in the map. Like, Hollywood Holocaust and Freeway would have car pileups, and city maps with Slimer eggs in them would have alien goop, implying that the map is a part of LA quarentined by the aliens for raising eggs and that Duke managed to find a back entrance into them.