[DustFalcon85]

Good news folks. I just passed my driving test and getting a driver's license. Is there a brand or a car w/ very good gas mileage, handling and so on that you can recommend me?

EDIT: Also the most affordable car as possible.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Are you adverse to purchasing hybrids or all-electric cars?

Define affordable - are you looking for new? Used? Less than $20,000? Will you be taking out a car loan or paying in cash?

[DustFalcon85]

Looking for a used. A car around $3500-$6000. We'll see. Any brand to recommend like Saturn, Toyota, GM or so?

[Inspector Lagomorf]

DustFalcon85, on 20 April 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Looking for a used. A car around $3500-$6000. We'll see. Any brand to recommend like Saturn, Toyota, GM or so?

At $3,500 to $6,000 you're looking at used cars, 2005 or older.

The important thing with used cars is that you want durability and easy maintenance, because chances are you'll be buying a SEP (someone else's problem). Honda Civic is a good way to go if you want a used car with great MPG and durability. I found a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid in my area for $6,000 and 88,000 miles. 48 city MPG and 47 highway MPG. Toyotas are up there as well in terms of reliability.

Avoid GMs. Avoid them like the plague.

Be advised to do your due diligence. Check CARFAX's, dealer reviews, KBB.com value of the car, etc.. If the dealer or seller will not allow you to select a mechanic to inspect the car, walk away.

[Mblackwell]

How do you get more in town than on the highway?

[Inspector Lagomorf]

It's not the only one: Ford Fusion Hybrid 2015

[TerminX]

Mblackwell, on 20 April 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

How do you get more in town than on the highway?

Might be a setup where the electric engine is used nearly exclusively for low speed driving with frequent stops, but freeway use exceeds the speed it can provide or depletes the batteries to the point where the gas is needed more often.

[Mblackwell]

TerminX, on 20 April 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

Might be a setup where the electric engine is used nearly exclusively for low speed driving with frequent stops, but freeway use exceeds the speed it can provide or depletes the batteries to the point where the gas is needed more often.

Ah.

My car is a piece of shit in the MPG department. Not as bad as it could be (usually 16-19 in town, and 26-29 on the highway), but I didn't really buy it to get great mileage either. I bought it because I can easily hit 70 going down the on ramp and corner crazily. 2006 VR6 3.6L Passat. Expensive car though, don't buy it unless you want a car that's fun to drive (and somewhat luxurious in the interior). Sounds like you want practicality. You want a Toyota Camry!

Spoiler

I'm not being sarcastic.

[Person of Color]

Comrade Major, on 20 April 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

At $3,500 to $6,000 you're looking at used cars, 2005 or older.

The important thing with used cars is that you want durability and easy maintenance, because chances are you'll be buying a SEP (someone else's problem). Honda Civic is a good way to go if you want a used car with great MPG and durability. I found a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid in my area for $6,000 and 88,000 miles. 48 city MPG and 47 highway MPG. Toyotas are up there as well in terms of reliability.

Civics are the worst value on the market. Newer, better, lower mileage competitors cars can be had for the same money, and they'll be just as reliable.

Brand determines resale value more than anything else.

Quote

Avoid GMs. Avoid them like the plague.

Worst advice ever, but I can't blame someone for saying that considering how American car companies shit on their customers. Avoid old Chryslers and Fords like the plague. GM actually has a bunch of good models, and a bunch of crap.

With 90's/2000's Ford, I'd only recommend a Mustang, second gen Explorer, or Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. A later Focus is a good bet though. Also Tempos and old Escorts are very reliable, but so is seppuku. Brand new Fords are the shit though.

Chrysler? Fuck nearly all of them. Yes, that includes Dodge. Only buy new. Their older stuff is the baseline for crap.

As for GM?

Saturn SL/SC, Saturn LS/L300, Chevy Cobalt, Chevy Aveo, Pontiac G3, Pontiac G5, Pontiac G6, Pontiac Grand Prix, later Malibus, some earlier Malibus, later Saturn Ions, Saturn Astra, almost anything Buick except Skylark/Rendezvous, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, I mean, fuck, even the Cavalier/Sunfire is bulletproof although it's a God damn deathtrap.

I can keep listing good GM cars if you want.

You wanna save money? Buy American. The good American cars are worthless, because the bad ones are worthless. Brand dictates resale value more than any other factor.

If want a reliable import, and wanna avoid the "Jap Tax," go Hyundai, Kia, or Suzuki. Mitsubishi Galants and Lancers are reliable, but overall that company is the Japanese Chrysler.

Quote

Be advised to do your due diligence. Check CARFAX's, dealer reviews, KBB.com value of the car, etc.. If the dealer or seller will not allow you to select a mechanic to inspect the car, walk away.

^^^^^^^^ This. Also if you like a car, research the individual trim level. Great example: 09-I think maybe 2012? Malibus. The four cylinders are very reliable but the six cylinder models have chronic engine failure.

[Person of Color]

Mblackwell, on 20 April 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

Ah.

My car is a piece of shit in the MPG department. Not as bad as it could be (usually 16-19 in town, and 26-29 on the highway), but I didn't really buy it to get great mileage either. I bought it because I can easily hit 70 going down the on ramp and corner crazily. 2006 VR6 3.6L Passat. Expensive car though, don't buy it unless you want a car that's fun to drive (and somewhat luxurious in the interior). Sounds like you want practicality. You want a Toyota Camry!

Spoiler

I'm not being sarcastic.

16 in town?!

I have to beat on my Mustang to get those numbers, and I have a V8!

What the fuck, VW?

[Person of Color]

[Mblackwell]

Person of Color, on 21 April 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

16 in town?!

I have to beat on my Mustang to get those numbers, and I have a V8!

What the fuck, VW?

It's an automatic. There's a lot of stops and I drive short distances (4m each way). Lots of time idling. It takes about 12-15 minutes to get those 4 miles. Not enough time for the engine to warm up really. Hence why I can get 19 at times. With a warm engine and not many stops I can get in the twenties in town, particularly if I flip to the Tiptronic and shift myself (6th gear at 42mph). I also almost never get a chance to drive on the highway and let the computer reconfigure itself.

I haven't driven it in summer ever though (I purchased the car in October), so we'll see if it's better then. It's better so far than my '04 passat.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Volkswagens are fun to drive but are notorious gas-eaters. The TDI is sort of a way to get around that, but have you seen the price of diesel lately?

Quote

Worst advice ever, but I can't blame someone for saying that considering how American car companies shit on their customers. Avoid old Chryslers and Fords like the plague. GM actually has a bunch of good models, and a bunch of crap.

With 90's/2000's Ford, I'd only recommend a Mustang, second gen Explorer, or Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. A later Focus is a good bet though. Also Tempos and old Escorts are very reliable, but so is seppuku. Brand new Fords are the shit though.

Chrysler? Fuck nearly all of them. Yes, that includes Dodge. Only buy new. Their older stuff is the baseline for crap.

Just to be clear here, I'm going from personal experience. My parents were Chevrolet owners until a few years ago and continuously complained about their lack of reliability (even minus the ignition switch scandal). I do agree with your assessment regarding brand new Fords, as I have a 2014 Ford Focus SE that is worth every penny I paid for it and then some. With that being said, I know his budget is limited, so I could not recommend something along that range.

[Mblackwell]

Comrade Major, on 21 April 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

Volkswagens are fun to drive but are notorious gas-eaters. The TDI is sort of a way to get around that, but have you seen the price of diesel lately?



Just to be clear here, I'm going from personal experience. My parents were Chevrolet owners until a few years ago and continuously complained about their lack of reliability (even minus the ignition switch scandal). I do agree with your assessment regarding brand new Fords, as I have a 2014 Ford Focus SE that is worth every penny I paid for it and then some. With that being said, I know his budget is limited, so I could not recommend something along that range.

New Fords seem pretty nice but I tend to avoid GM cars because they always seem to miss little details that bug me (trim and seals and other nonsense that most people probably don't notice or care about). Seems to be a common problem in American cars these days really. Though, I'm tempted to pick up a 2015 V8 Dodge Challenger because it's so beautiful. But I could never justify the purchase or afford it for that matter.

As for VW's being fun to drive: Yeah, it's similar to Audi or BMW where it's mostly about the driving experience. It's particularly fun if you shift to Sport mode but then your gas mileage tanks. I've only used it when I was running late for something and wanted to zip between cars.

[Person of Color]

Too bad VW's are as reliable as a bipolar ex girlfriend, and pricier than the lawyer fees.

My Mustang breaks all the time but it's usually fixed with five bucks and some chewed bubblegum.

[The Commander]

Get a 1980s Honda City or a Subaru Ace if you are concerned about full consumption and not your personal sanity...

[Mblackwell]

Person of Color, on 21 April 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

Too bad VW's are as reliable as a bipolar ex girlfriend, and pricier than the lawyer fees.

My Mustang breaks all the time but it's usually fixed with five bucks and some chewed bubblegum.

Bah, since after around 2001ish VWs have been fine. I've never really had any issues not normal for another car of the same age.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Mblackwell, on 22 April 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

Bah, since after around 2001ish VWs have been fine.

As a former owner of a 2008 Jetta, I must contest this notion. Routine repairs would frequently be in the range of $1,000-$1,500 for me (replacing CV boots, linkage joints, etc.) It feels like they incur more wear-and-tear costs than other cars of its class, and more frequently.

[Mblackwell]

Jettas suck, that's true.

Edit: Particularly the 4 door version. I think it's just too turbo-ed out for its own good. Honestly the 4 cylinder turbo Passats used to have some issues too before 2006ish, but even then I think the car is just too large and it's not fair to the (4cyl) engine. Sure the Turbo allows it to get up and go, but it's still a hell of a lot of stress.

Edit2: You paid way too much for the repairs if they were that much with any frequency. The only time I paid that much for anything was a timing belt change and cooling system flush combined with a bunch of hose replacements and other misc things that I'd needed to do earlier but weren't critical.

[Person of Color]

Mblackwell, on 22 April 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

Bah, since after around 2001ish VWs have been fine. I've never really had any issues not normal for another car of the same age.

Comrade Major, on 22 April 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:

As a former owner of a 2008 Jetta, I must contest this notion. Routine repairs would frequently be in the range of $1,000-$1,500 for me (replacing CV boots, linkage joints, etc.) It feels like they incur more wear-and-tear costs than other cars of its class, and more frequently.

Mblackwell, on 22 April 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Jettas suck, that's true.

Edit: Particularly the 4 door version. I think it's just too turbo-ed out for its own good. Honestly the 4 cylinder turbo Passats used to have some issues too before 2006ish, but even then I think the car is just too large and it's not fair to the (4cyl) engine. Sure the Turbo allows it to get up and go, but it's still a hell of a lot of stress.

Edit2: You paid way too much for the repairs if they were that much with any frequency. The only time I paid that much for anything was a timing belt change and cooling system flush combined with a bunch of hose replacements and other misc things that I'd needed to do earlier but weren't critical.

All car owners have a different idea of what "reliable" means. I'll be the first to admit my car is unreliable but it's so cheap to fix I don't really care.

German car fanatics don't even know the definition of that word.

Nearly all mechanics feel that VW, Audi, and BMW suck. You'll be hard pressed to find a mechanic who will recommend any of these brands...the people who work on all makes and models of cars every day for a living have the right idea. Mercedes is significantly better, and JD Power and Consumer Reports will back up my claims and every mechanic's.

American and Japanese performance car owners are too busy buying things with the money we save to care about German reliability claims. Those claims are fine if you do your own repairs...if not, enjoy your Ramen.

It's not that I dislike German cars, I love nearly everything Mercedes, and I'm a huge fan of 80's BMW's and Audis. But people keep defending their reliability and it's like conservatives talking economics...it's all faith based. I can spend ten minutes alone with a laser printer and create my own novel of horror stories and sketchy reliability data.

[Person of Color]

Commander Cody, on 22 April 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

Get a 1980s Honda City or a Subaru Ace if you are concerned about full consumption and not your personal sanity...

The civilized world never received these pieces of shit, sorry.

[The Commander]

Person of Color, on 22 April 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

The civilized world never received these pieces of shit, sorry.

What about the Toyota Starlet, Mazda 323 or Nissan Pulsar?

Or did America only make gas sucking V8's in the 80's?

[Person of Color]

Who the fuck would buy a 30 year old econobox? And yeah, they sold the 323 and Pulsar here. Pieces of shit.

[Mblackwell]

Dunno, everyone I know who's bothered to do the regular maintenance on their VW has had a good experience. The trick is never taking it to the dealer unless it's something only they can do for some reason. I don't disagree that they aren't really built to be easy to work on. I'm sure it's on purpose to tempt you to take it to a dealer!

Really, if you want something easy to work on yourself buy a motorcycle. Fun fun!

Spoiler

I need to finish the remaining work on mine so I can ride it again. Darn my lack of free time.

[The Albino Ape]

Person of Color, on 21 April 2015 - 01:14 AM, said:

Worst advice ever, but I can't blame someone for saying that considering how American car companies shit on their customers. Avoid old Chryslers and Fords like the plague. GM actually has a bunch of good models, and a bunch of crap.

With 90's/2000's Ford, I'd only recommend a Mustang, second gen Explorer, or Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. A later Focus is a good bet though. Also Tempos and old Escorts are very reliable, but so is seppuku. Brand new Fords are the shit though.

Chrysler? Fuck nearly all of them. Yes, that includes Dodge. Only buy new. Their older stuff is the baseline for crap.

As for GM?

Saturn SL/SC, Saturn LS/L300, Chevy Cobalt, Chevy Aveo, Pontiac G3, Pontiac G5, Pontiac G6, Pontiac Grand Prix, later Malibus, some earlier Malibus, later Saturn Ions, Saturn Astra, almost anything Buick except Skylark/Rendezvous, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, I mean, fuck, even the Cavalier/Sunfire is bulletproof although it's a God damn deathtrap.

Buick Centurys are possibly the most horrible GM to work on, especially the FWD V6. And on top of that, every 50k miles or so the intake gaskets blow, the reason why is because the upper intake is aluminum, and the bottom half is steel. That cause different temperatures and all that crap. But I'll admit that they are very good cars when they are running properly.

[Person of Color]

Blake, on 23 April 2015 - 06:09 PM, said:

Buick Centurys are possibly the most horrible GM to work on, especially the FWD V6. And on top of that, every 50k miles or so the intake gaskets blow, the reason why is because the upper intake is aluminum, and the bottom half is steel. That cause different temperatures and all that crap. But I'll admit that they are very good cars when they are running properly.

You're thinking of the newer ones, I'm talking about the A-body ones.

[The Albino Ape]

Person of Color, on 23 April 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

You're thinking of the newer ones, I'm talking about the A-body ones.

Gotcha.

[The Commander]

Person of Color, on 23 April 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Who the fuck would buy a 30 year old econobox? And yeah, they sold the 323 and Pulsar here. Pieces of shit.

No they weren't, what the fuck is wrong with you.

[Person of Color]

Compared to what we could buy in the 80's? Crap. Actually, those things are pure shit, regardless. Cheap ass rust bucket death traps. I don't know why the rest of the world thinks 80's econoboxes are great. They're shit. We get it, you can't afford gasoline. Aspire to something better.

Out of any A to B car from the 80's I'd take this guy. The Mercury Grand Marquis/Colony Park. Sure, the AOD transmission sucks, but I'll grab one at a junkyard if it fails. Legendary 5.0 Windsor engine (Optional 5.8), plush as FUCK, drop dead gorgeous inside and out, classy as shit.

I grew up in the Colony Park wagon. Fucking monster of a car. Seats up to 8, hauls up to infinity pounds, rear hatch opens both ways (to the side or like a tailgate), and even has POWER retracting glass. Fucking thing has all the bells and whistles of a Cadillac and does everything. Rides nearly as smooth too. One of the best cars America built in the past 30 years.

Also, find me a car from the 80's with front fenders like that. I fuckin' dare you. Plus the interior has lots of REAL chrome, not that plastic shit, everything from the guages to the control stalks to the buttons and door trim is chrome. Yes, it can burn you on hot days. Stop being a pussy.

[DustFalcon85]

Guys it's official. I just bought a Kia Soul.