[ultra tree 85!]

dalbrech, on May 8 2009, 10:23 PM, said:

How could it have happened?
Easy.
Incompetence.

It would take more than that. It would also take a complete lack of concern for the community, and the developers. George and Scott obviously don't give a fucking shit about the game, the community, or the people who have just lost their jobs. The people were all fired without warning because of the heartlessness of the two people at the very top- George and Scott.

[Sangman]

Calm down ultra tree, you know just as much as all of us: Nothing. You are making claims that might be correct, but personally I believe in the notion of "innocent until proven otherwise".

[peoplessi]

ultra tree 85!, on May 9 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

First of all, I would not have been such a poor leader that the development went on to the point where the funds ran out. Scott was saying in early 2008 that they were likely to release in early 09', and if that had been true, they would have released just soon enough to save the company.

That's what you say, and you don't know from outside how George Broussard led the team. You don't know what would have been soon enough either.

ultra tree 85!, on May 9 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

Even if I somehow woke up one day and realized that there was no money left, I would have tried to find a way to overcome the problem, instead of sitting around posting on Twitter, and spending time driving a fucking Hummer and playing Geometry Wars all day like George did. I would have tried extremely hard to find some way to get the money, and would have devoted every minute of the day to that. This is a company that George and Scott have run together for almost 20 years, so it should have meant enough to them to justify spending countless hours trying to save the company instead of just sitting there driving it right into a black hole.

That's an assuming George Broussard didn't try to do anything. You again don't know this. Joe Siegler said that every play in the book was tried, but they didn't come through. You being in that position wouldn't have changed it at all. Again pure speculation.

ultra tree 85!, on May 9 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

Another thing I would have done is be honest with the developers who have put so much into the project over the years, and the fanbase that has waited and spent so much time dreaming of the game...

How do you know George wasn't honest? What good would have it done in regards DNF of mentioning the situation before it was SURE. Since George Broussard obviously tried to the end to fix the situation. Your solution would have meant more imminent closure. The amount of speculation and assumptions in your post makes me face palm.

As for the money George Broussard has or hasn't, you don't know shit about. Selling Hummer H2, that wouldn't have made a difference, at all. That's not worth even 100k second hand.

ultra tree 85!, on May 9 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

I certainly would not have just closed it down. Even without any of the options that were available, like personal sacrifice or the closure of Scott's absurd Radar Games venture, I still would NOT have been willing to just throw in the towel and say "Oh well, there's nothing else we can do." I would have tried desperately to complete the game in a short time, and I would have motivated the entire team to make one last stand for the company that fans of Duke around the world love. There would have been a tremendous last-ditch effort to prepare the game for release. Everyone would have known that it was the Zero Hour for 3D Realms, and I would have taken the role of a highly motivating leader who truly believes in something special, and is willing to do anything to make sure that the dream is realized. I would owe that much to everyone who had faith in me and our dream. The bottom line is that I WOULD HAVE KEPT THE COMPANY GOING UNTIL THE FEDS CAME TO SHUT IT THE FUCK DOWN THEMSELVES, and I'M NOT FUCKING KIDDING ABOUT THAT.

Your above routines would have MEANT more imminent closure, and your speculation doesn't prove anything what happened over at 3D Realms, and what George did. Based on what you said, it's sure that 3D Realms would have been no more, just a bit sooner. Telling employees of the situation before it's 100% sure, would alone made the difference.

All this shows you are no more competent to give any real alternatives in how to lead a company.

Also, on a related note. Why are you so fucking angry? You have something personal against George Broussard? Sounds like it. Those hate posts are sure to help, sure.

[ultra tree 85!]

peoplessi, on May 9 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

Your above routines would have MEANT more imminent closure, and your speculation doesn't prove anything what happened over at 3D Realms, and what George did. Based on what you said, it's sure that 3D Realms would have been no more, just a bit sooner. Telling employees of the situation before it's 100% sure, would alone made the difference.

That's absurd. OF COURSE ACTUALLY TRYING to finish the game in a quick manner would INCREASE the chance of success. Why would that be a bad idea? My brain is and will always be incapable of understanding how the hell speeding up development would make the situation worse. The thing that no one really understands is that just closing 3D Realms like good little boys who don't want to get into massive debt isn't an excuse. This is 3D Realms that we're talking about here. Of course they should have kept it going indefinately no matter what. And I'm sure that Scott could have given money to support the company, as well as George, but they didn't. Also, unless someone can justify George's disgusting Twitters about LOTR and other crap, I will never accept the idea that he cares or tried everything he could.

[AgentScotty]

If you're in a house that's on fire, needing 1 second to jump out a window won't do you any good if the fire flashes over and kills you in a quarter of a second.

While it may have been possible to prevent what happened if 3DR had pushed harder to finish DNF, we don't know how long ago that push would have had to start. For example, if they would have had to push hard 1 year ago to finish DNF today, that wouldn't have done them any good if it became apparent 3 months ago that closure was imminent.

The whole situation sucks. Thirtysomething ppl just lost their jobs, and if a deal to get DNF picked up by another studio isn't done quickly, whatever they have done of DNF will become obsolete from a tech standpoint. The story and gameplay ideas may still be valid, but Moore's Law would crush the underlying technology.

[Ramen4ever]

AgentScotty, on May 9 2009, 10:23 AM, said:

If you're in a house that's on fire, needing 1 second to jump out a window won't do you any good if the fire flashes over and kills you in a quarter of a second.

While it may have been possible to prevent what happened if 3DR had pushed harder to finish DNF, we don't know how long ago that push would have had to start. For example, if they would have had to push hard 1 year ago to finish DNF today, that wouldn't have done them any good if it became apparent 3 months ago that closure was imminent.

The whole situation sucks. Thirtysomething ppl just lost their jobs, and if a deal to get DNF picked up by another studio isn't done quickly, whatever they have done of DNF will become obsolete from a tech standpoint. The story and gameplay ideas may still be valid, but Moore's Law would crush the underlying technology.

For sure. Question is.. will any company want to invest under the current economic situation. Microsoft had a firing spree of like 17% of the workforce. Imho, either a daring company will buy it up or it's up to foreign investors who aren't hit quite so hard by the current economic state.

thoughts?

[AgentScotty]

3DR has always considered IP to be very important. They have the Duke Nukem IP, which all of us want to see used for another FPS (which we always assumed would be DNF). They helped to fund and produce Max Payne, which brought both 3DR and Remedy an unprecedented windfall for an IP sale, allowing Remedy to join the small club of developes that can call their own shots. Although the in-house Prey appeared to have imploded, the IP was good enough that 3DR was able to line up another developer to get it made.

Although the current economic climate may preclude the completion of DNF before Moore's Law takes its toll on the underlying tech, the Duke Nukem IP will always be worth something, and hopefully someday we will see another game based on it.

[Ramen4ever]

That's like best worst case scenario. If a different company worked with whatever there is of DNF, I doubt they'd be able to screw it up completely. I really wouldn't mind something like that. But worst case scenario is that no company will buy up the rights or even if they do, they won't us the rights to do anything. Or at least not for another decade.

[Redcard]

Ramen4ever, on May 9 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

That's like best worst case scenario. If a different company worked with whatever there is of DNF, I doubt they'd be able to screw it up completely. I really wouldn't mind something like that. But worst case scenario is that no company will buy up the rights or even if they do, they won't us the rights to do anything. Or at least not for another decade.

I think without 3DR keeping the hype up on the game, that Duke Nuke'm will fade away into the background. The fact is, the Duke IP is not worth much anymore, because it's so associated with failure. Even if 3DR finished the game, it would never have lived up to the 12 years of hype .. now imagine a non-3DR finished game. What company in their right mind would set themselves up for failure in trying to live up to the hype that was created before.

Every Duke game released , even the spin-offs, was compared to a game that might as well have never existed.

The IP is not worth the hassle that the future developers would take for not "living up to the true intent of the game." It'd be more worthwhile for a company to innovate their own IP and build the brand for 12 years than try to rescue this.

[Yatta]

AgentScotty, on May 9 2009, 10:38 AM, said:

3DR has always considered IP to be very important. They have the Duke Nukem IP, which all of us want to see used for another FPS (which we always assumed would be DNF). They helped to fund and produce Max Payne, which brought both 3DR and Remedy an unprecedented windfall for an IP sale, allowing Remedy to join the small club of developes that can call their own shots. Although the in-house Prey appeared to have imploded, the IP was good enough that 3DR was able to line up another developer to get it made.

Although the current economic climate may preclude the completion of DNF before Moore's Law takes its toll on the underlying tech, the Duke Nukem IP will always be worth something, and hopefully someday we will see another game based on it.

Well said, again. I think you're one of the most intelligent person on the forums, seriously.

[dalbrech]

Bottom line is, as much as I loved Duke Nukem 3d, to have a game 12 years in devlopment is totally ridiculous. The ridicule that 3dRealms has gotten over this is totally deserved and the argument that they were victims of chaning technology does not hold because lots of very good games don't go through endless changes of engine that DNF did.
But accusation of wrongdoing are totally without support at this time. I can't see how you can avoid questioning the management skills of GB and Scott at this time, but to question their motives is going overboard.
In the end I think that GB was a brilliant game designer but just did not have the management skillsa and business knowledge to run a company

[dalbrech]

The real problem with the Duke IP is that DNF has been a standing joke in the industry for years, and I doubt any company will be anxious to pick up the biggest fiasco in gaming history..and, let's face it, that is what it now is, right away.
And you have a whole generation of gamers who know Duke Nukem only by name and by the endless jokes about DNF. That will reduce the value of the IP.

[Striker]

I am still pissed at the entire situation....

All I hope for is some sort of miracle, or that someone manages to pick up DNF and get it done ASAP. I don't want it to go to waste. Too much work has gone into it for it to be thrown away.

I know one thing is for sure, if there is something or someone to blame for all of this, I'll sure be letting loose on that something/someone without mercy.

[Redcard]

I do have to question a bit why more didn't come out from former employees about this. I mean, employees know when they are being poorly managed. They know that "not having schedules" and releasing "when it's ready" is not a good business plan. When we go to school to get degrees for software engineering, we're taught that there are many different methods of software development.. but if you never sell anything, you will never succeed.. and to sell things, you have to have a sell date. And to have a sell date, you have to have schedules.

I'm not blaming them for being fired.. but to act like they are not innocent.. they what was going on relatively quickly in their employment. They chose to stay. Eventually the piper was going to have to be paid.