[Frederik Schreiber]

Currently we're pretty far in putting something great together for the fans to play around with.
There is a big bump in the road though.

We've been getting countless emails, spam mails, threats, hack attempts, etc. (These appear multiple times, on a daily basis), from a certain individual you all know by name (under countless fake names, facebook and email accounts).
We feel discouraged to ever releasing this material, if something like this continues.
It's simply not worth it, compared to the amount work and personal/professional harassment we're going through, for something as simple as wanting to please individuals in our fanbase.
We'll keep you updated.

Meanwhile, we have a lot of great material hitting the 3D Realms site in the next few weeks, including articles, blogs, and great "behind the scenes" assets to share with you guys.

[DNSkill]

I don't think it's fair that the community might be punished for one wipeless asshole's behavior though. Then again, I could be reading this wrong and that might not at all be what you're saying (it's 5:20am here so please forgive me if I'm getting the wrong picture). All I know is that the harassment is uncalled for. I thought it would've stopped by now after all that had been said and done earlier.

I'm looking forward to part 2 of Tom Hall's level design tips and any future post!

[Mr. Nukem Roses]

well. best i can say is, screw those haters that do that. we'd all love to see some beta stuff from Duke 3D

[The Commander]

What's the legal status of the situation of that faggot?

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

I've seen similar situations happen before where some brats throw a temper tantrum and try to sabotage the release of pre-release content or try and steal it because they don't have it RIGHT NOW. I say "fuck them" and release as much as you can. All of his phishing attempts are laughable and it'll pass eventually. We've gotten a lot of good stuff from devs willing to speak out and share, even though there were teenagers trying to ruin it.

I know it's discouraging, but Bryan is a blip on the radar compared to how much goodwill you'd get from doing this.

Plus, the way I look at it is that Bryan will continue harassing you if you stop reconstruction work because of discouragement. Get it done, get it out, and show him that acting like a brat will not give him any special treatment.

[MetHy]

Frederik Schreiber, on 21 November 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

It's simply not worth it, compared to the amount work and personal/professional harassment we're going through, for something as simple as wanting to please individuals in our fanbase.
We'll keep you updated.

I'm the kind of guy who's not afraid to say what he thinks, and honestly I'm sorry but I think you are out of loop if you think all this work with the betas is only "to please individuals in your fanbase".
You're doing something no developers or publishers would ever do, and something that fans only dream of.
When you'll do this, people will think you're fucking awesome for doing it, that you're some the coolest devs ever, and that you are very close to your fans. In this day and age of facebook, twitter, etc being close to the customers is something every single company wants (not just in video games, in about everything), it's become a very important part of the marketing process, and you're doing it in a way that no other devs did and that the customers love.

Edit : just think of Resident Evil fans. For more than a decade they've been trying to get Capcom to do something with the RE2 beta (RE1.5) that was 80% complete. countless worldwide petitions and other things that Capcom never responded to. Some fans went as far as doing crazy things to get hold of copies of a beta. One guy was trying to sell it for 10k $. Others reported that behaviour to Capcom. Now a small group of pro devs actually paid that and are working on making a fully playable version of it on their past time, anonymously and for free so that Capcom can't get to them.
That's just an example. Tons of communities love to look for the slightlest information they can get on betas of games they love.

When you release a playable beta, it's going to hit every pro video game website or magazine, and even non 3DRealms fans will think "that's fucking cool" and would dream of getting the same treatment from other devs they are fan of. They'll want to be a 3Drealms fan.

If done right, this could erase the memory of all the bad publicity you've been getting lately.

Edit : but if you give up because of one 12 years old kid, you're showing to your fans how weak you are.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

MetHy, on 21 November 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Edit : but if you give up because of one 12 years old kid, you're showing to your fans how weak you are.

Seconded. I expect that most of the other DN heavyweights on this forum will come to Frederik's side on this, but you have already isolated who the problem person is. Blaming the entire (mostly well-behaved) fanbase for it is the very definition of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We can't control some snot-nosed little shit.

If Bryan wants to continue being a child, get a restraining order.

[ReaperMan]

I say don't release anything, knowing that it would piss off Byan 200% more makes makes me feel good.

[Jblade]

I would rather they not get released if you're gonna tease us with releases for months and then pull out and blame it on a teenager. We're not entitled to the beta files at all I understand that and completely agree, but I don't want to become beholden and apologize on behalf of somebody who's never been part of this community and who has nothing to do with us at all, both in action and in spirit. If you've decided that the bad taste is not worth the effort than I'd argue that you should forgo trying to build a fanbase at all because fanatics are an unfortunate part of the territory, and that won't ever change.

There ARE obsessed people, sometimes with genuine mental issues, that is the nature of such esoteric hobbies like ours. To talk up a storm about releasing this stuff and then deciding to publicly announce you have second thoughts because of a single outlier who's not 'one of us' at all just seems like you don't understand the whole scene at all. The pre-alphas/bets are now yours however, you can do whichever you want with it and I won't argue that for a second.

At the very least however, it would be great if you'd allow TX, Hendricks or someone trustworthy like MYHOUSE or Marphyblack to have access to the betas and document them for everybody to see. I think there'd be genuine interest in that.

[Forge]

Frederik Schreiber, on 21 November 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

We feel discouraged to ever releasing this material for something as simple as wanting to please individuals in our fanbase.
It's simply not worth it, compared to the amount work we're going through,

Meanwhile, we have a lot of great material hitting the 3D Realms site in the next few weeks, including articles, blogs, and great "behind the scenes" assets to share with you guys.

this is what i got out of it.

all that material was more work and cost than originally estimated. Bowing down to some pissant cyber-terrorist is just an easy out.

oh and btw: bump the 3DRealms site and products.


Not the smartest thing to say on a forum full of rabid 'fanboys', but it still would have been better to offer the material 'with purchase' of another product. You might have painted yourself in a corner by prematurely announcing the free distribution of all this material. Lose-Lose. Piss off the fan base, or take a hit to the wallet.

[DNSkill]

Jblade, on 21 November 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

MYHOUSE or Marphyblack to have access to the betas and document them for everybody to see. I think there'd be genuine interest in that.

MYHOUSE, Marphy, and I were all contacted about this months ago when this all was announced, so it was on the table at first but I think legal reasons prohibited this from happening, or it hasn't got to that stage yet. It doesn't bother me that they may have decided not to allow us to do so, because I feel TX and Hendricks are doing great work in the background on their own, I just hope it all wasn't done for nothing.

And to be clear, I'm not bitching or anything, and I'm not the type to get jealous (even though we all would love to say we got to see this stuff before anyone else). I really do believe TX and Hendricks are the most fit for this stuff, and even if having a larger team would've made things move a bit faster, I think it's better for it to take time and TLC than just rushing to get it all out there to fans.

[Kathy]

Frederik Schreiber, on 21 November 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

We feel discouraged to ever releasing this material, if something like this continues.

Then don't release it. If you want to be a public face of the company, suck it up and deal with it. You can't expect community to do this for you.

[Fox]

So a 14 years old with Internet connection has so much power over your company?

[icecoldduke]

Quote

So a 14 years old with Internet connection has so much power over your company?

Apparently so :/.

Quote

We feel discouraged to ever releasing this material, if something like this continues.

I feel that all this thread is going to do is insight a mob against the kid which is the wrong way to pursue this matter, this should be taken up with the police, who can properly take care of the situation. We in this community can not and should not take any action against this kid or who ever he might be, and I feel that you guys are indirectly asking members in this community to take such action.

I hope that TX and Hendricks work doesn't go to waste but honestly if they don't end up releasing it, it won't hurt 3dr very much it will just annoy people on this forum, we are just a drop in the bucket from a marking stand point .

[The Commander]

[DukeNukem64]

To be honest I met Fred the other day and asked about the release of beta material. Of course I can't reveal much other than he seems very excited about the whole thing.
However, Interceptor/3D Realms is bonding very close to their fans and I think Fred hoped that we would accept him more as ''one of us'', and didn't expect some one (like Bryan) to completely terrorize him through-out this. I think that they would like some more support from us (not that people aren't supportive, at all.). I just think they feel people aren't that grateful - as they could be, when they are working on something for free..
Personally, I don't think this will stop them on their road of pleasing us with the betas, however I just think Frederik is trying to draw a line here.

[icecoldduke]

DukeNukem64, on 21 November 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

I think that they would like some more support from us (not that people aren't supportive, at all.).

We can offer support in saying Brian is someone that needs to be locked up, and I believe for all of us this goes with out saying. I'm not sure what more he expects us to say that hasn't already been said in the sticky thread dedicated to this very topic.

This is obviously still a on going problem and needs to be handled by the police, and honestly should have nothing to do with whether the beta stuff gets released.

[JoJo the Idiot Circus Boy]

You know I would love to see a betas of Duke64 if they have them

[Fox]

If one is avaiable it would exist in physical format.

[Hendricks266]

Frederik Schreiber, on 21 November 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

We've been getting countless emails, spam mails, threats, hack attempts, etc. (These appear multiple times, on a daily basis), from a certain individual you all know by name (under countless fake names, facebook and email accounts).
We feel discouraged to ever releasing this material, if something like this continues.
It's simply not worth it, compared to the amount work and personal/professional harassment we're going through, for something as simple as wanting to please individuals in our fanbase.

Quite frankly, I don't think pulling out will be effective in stopping his harassment. He knows we have the materials. But TX and I have filed a complaint with the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center, and Amazon is actively investigating the DDoS attack on eduke32.com that came from some cloud computing instances.

Harassment from a single person can be annoying, even infuriating, but it is not representative of everyone else.

DukeNukem64, on 21 November 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

However, Interceptor/3D Realms is bonding very close to their fans and I think Fred hoped that we would accept him more as ''one of us'', and didn't expect some one (like Bryan) to completely terrorize him through-out this.

Here is some set theory for you:

Duke4.net ∩ {Bryan} = ∅

(It says there are no common elements in the set of Duke4.net and the set containing Bryan.)

DukeNukem64, on 21 November 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

I think that they would like some more support from us (not that people aren't supportive, at all.). I just think they feel people aren't that grateful - as they could be, when they are working on something for free..

At this point in the process, that level of support is akin to blind faith, which isn't something you can demand from a fanbase. Suggesting that the launch will be scrubbed because of one unrelated person's actions only hurts that dynamic further.

[icecoldduke]

Hendricks266, on 21 November 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

At this point in the process, that level of support is akin to blind faith, which isn't something you can demand from a fanbase. Suggesting that the launch will be scrubbed because of one unrelated person's actions only hurts that dynamic further.

Completely agree with you.

Quote

Meanwhile, we have a lot of great material hitting the 3D Realms site in the next few weeks, including articles, blogs, and great "behind the scenes" assets to share with you guys.

While this stuff is undoubtedly very interesting it shouldn't be considered a replacement for whatever goodies are still in the works.

[Forge]

Hendricks266, on 21 November 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

At this point in the process, that level of support is akin to blind faith, which isn't something you can demand from a fanbase. Suggesting that the launch will be scrubbed because of one unrelated person's actions only hurts that dynamic further.

'freebies' are supposed to be a secondary reason for loyalty to a company. (can't say using 'free stuff' that only matters to a small niche community is a good marketing ploy anyway)

failing to deliver on the promise of 'free stuff' (no matter how weak the excuse) should not make or break the company and its fan-base. it should be based off the quality of their commercial products.

being upset over the failure to satisfy one's curiosity, or more likely, greed for the material only shows the true colors of some of the individuals in said small-niche community.


imo, the actual 'free stuff'' is a secondary or non-issue; I see the 'excuse' not to release the material as rather suspect. Blaming one douch-bag for ruining things for the rest of the fans? It's damaging to the credibility and trustworthiness of the company's head representative.

Fred should have said something more point blank and honest sounding like, "it's costing too much money and man-hours at this time". Next time he should let the marketing or PR person handle these kind of announcements.

[Fox]

Forge, on 21 November 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

I see the 'excuse' not to release the material as rather suspect. Blaming one douch-bag for ruining things for the rest of the fans?

You said it all.

[Kathy]

Forge, on 21 November 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

failing to deliver on the promise of 'free stuff' (no matter how weak the excuse) should not make or break the company and its fan-base. it should be based off the quality of their commercial products.

As of now, there is nothing else really except the "free stuff".

Quote

imo, the actual 'free stuff'' is a secondary or non-issue; I see the 'excuse' not to release the material as rather suspect. Blaming one douch-bag for ruining things for the rest of the fans? It's damaging to the credibility and trustworthiness of the company's head representative.

This.

[MetHy]

Forge, on 21 November 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

being upset over the failure to satisfy one's curiosity, or more likely, greed for the material only shows the true colors of some of the individuals in said small-niche community.

Honestly I find it totally understandable that someone's view of the company change if nothing is delivered. It's not a question of curiosity or greed, but rather of disappointment since some of the coolest stuff ever was promised. I understand no fan is entitled to those betas, but if a company promises "COOL FREE STUFF FOR EVERYONE!" and then backs off after several months of wait, of course people will be disappointed and their view of the company will change somewhat, and there is nothing greedy about that.

Personally this (if there is beta or not) doesn't change much how I see the company. And after all, "3DRealms" at its current state is a like brand new company so there is not much opinion to change, only to build up.
What affects my opinion though is seeing the company lose against a single young teenage troll.
Again, this is on my personal level, so it's not worth much, but I believe that what I said earlier (about how this beta business, if done right, could have a huge impact on 3DRealms' popularity even to non-fans if it was released) could go both ways: I wouldn't be surprised if some of the most click-hungry "professional" video game "news" sites would spread the story while also exaggerating the facts and reminding people of 3DRealms' recent bad publicity at the same time .

[Hendricks266]

Forge, on 21 November 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Next time he should let the marketing or PR person handle these kind of announcements.

I would much rather hear an honest statement than carefully prepared PR bullshit. The latter merely builds a brick wall between the company and the fanbase--the exact opposite of the organic online presence Joe Siegler curated over the years through the forums, the Apogee Legacy series, etc.

MetHy, on 21 November 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the most click-hungry "professional" video game "news" sites would spread the story while also exaggerating the facts.

Indeed, the beta thread got picked up by news sites when it was just old 3D Realms logos converted to JPEG.

[TerminX]

Forge, on 21 November 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

'freebies' are supposed to be a secondary reason for loyalty to a company. (can't say using 'free stuff' that only matters to a small niche community is a good marketing ploy anyway)

failing to deliver on the promise of 'free stuff' (no matter how weak the excuse) should not make or break the company and its fan-base. it should be based off the quality of their commercial products.

being upset over the failure to satisfy one's curiosity, or more likely, greed for the material only shows the true colors of some of the individuals in said small-niche community.


I see it as the 'excuse' not to release the material seems rather suspect. Blaming one douch-bag for ruining things for the rest of the fans? It's damaging to the credibility and trustworthiness of the company's head representative.

Fred should have said something more point blank and honest sounding like it's costing too much money and man-hours at this time. Next time he should let the marketing or PR person handle these kind of announcements.

I clicked "upvote" before I read the second half of this post. It honestly is one douchebag to blame... well, 3, because he lives with both of his parents who are more than aware of his behavior. At this point, these people are so nuts that if I found out they were running a meth lab in their garage and that you-know-who was sampling their product, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Who lets their kid stay up all night and harass people worldwide? Frickin' tweakers who don't care, that's who!

The perpetrator should be hitting puberty soon, maybe then he'll move on to stalking local girls instead of stalking people with prototype games from half a decade before he was born.

[Hendricks266]

TerminX, on 21 November 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

I clicked "upvote" before I read the second half of this post. It honestly is one douchebag to blame... well, 3, because he lives with both of his parents who are more than aware of his behavior.

I think his point was that one douchebag is a questionable reason to pull the plug on something that was publicly announced. This is especially true given that it wouldn't stop Bryan, and he hasn't been able to cause any permanent damage.

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

TerminX, on 21 November 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

I clicked "upvote" before I read the second half of this post. It honestly is one douchebag to blame... well, 3, because he lives with both of his parents who are more than aware of his behavior. At this point, these people are so nuts that if I found out they were running a meth lab in their garage and that you-know-who was sampling their product, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Who lets their kid stay up all night and harass people worldwide? Frickin' tweakers who don't care, that's who!

The perpetrator should be hitting puberty soon, maybe then he'll move on to stalking local girls instead of stalking people with prototype games from half a decade before he was born.

He lives in Arkansas; making meth is a family tradition over there. It explains why his family can afford all of the retro PCs he gets for his birthdays.

[NUKEMDAVE]

If the betas aren't released, it'll make the third time that Interceptor/3DR has failed to deliver when it comes to Duke. Even if the last two failures weren't their fault, the new 3DR is looking a lot like the old 3DR as far as Duke goes.

So yeah, the whole fanbase shouldn't have to suffer because of the actions of one person.