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EDuke32 2.0 and Polymer!  "talk about the wonders of EDuke32 and the new renderer"

User is online   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#5341

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 29 October 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

Didn't think this was worthy of it's own topic, so I'll post it in here. In eDuke 5400 lately I noticed that the laser tripmines are the solid red color instead of the more fancy looking translucent color. I remember from looking in the con file of a mod recently that you can change that in the con settings. I don't have any con files in my eduke folder, so is there a console command to change that, or some other way to fix that setting back to the better looking way? Thanks.


There are 3 CON files that come with Duke 3D. They are GAME.CON, USER.CON, and DEFS.CON

You should definitely have copies of these in the same folder that contains DUKE3D.GRP. Note that the copies that are loose in your folder will override the copies that are zipped inside of DUKE3D.GRP
I believe that the Atomic edition comes with those files outside of the GRP and ready to edit.

The tripbomb settings, and many other settings can be found in USER.CON
Here is the relevant part:

define TRIPBOMBLASERMODE        1     // 0 = always visable
                                      // 1 = transluscense
                                      // 2 = invisible w/o IR goggles
                                      // 3 = totally invisable


Again, even if you don't intend to do much with the CON files, it is good to have them handy.
3

User is offline   ReaperMan 

#5342

View PostMark., on 29 October 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

It would be fantastic if there were lots and lots of code "snippets" or examples to go along with the technical info in the wiki. There are already some very useful ones in there but many more are needed. Sometimes it seems that the wiki was written assuming basic knowledge of cons and you can get lost if just starting out.

Mark that is a great idea and would help immensely.
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#5343

View PostTrooper Dan, on 29 October 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

There are 3 CON files that come with Duke 3D. They are GAME.CON, USER.CON, and DEFS.CON

You should definitely have copies of these in the same folder that contains DUKE3D.GRP. Note that the copies that are loose in your folder will override the copies that are zipped inside of DUKE3D.GRP
I believe that the Atomic edition comes with those files outside of the GRP and ready to edit.

The tripbomb settings, and many other settings can be found in USER.CON
Here is the relevant part:

define TRIPBOMBLASERMODE        1     // 0 = always visable
                                      // 1 = transluscense
                                      // 2 = invisible w/o IR goggles
                                      // 3 = totally invisable


Again, even if you don't intend to do much with the CON files, it is good to have them handy.


Much thanks. I've only been copying Duke.grp and Duke.rts into my eduke folders since I read those were all you need. I haven't played Vanilla DOS Duke in a long time. But I do have those .cons there in the classic folder in Megaton, so I don't have to dig out the ol' CD, right on.
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#5344

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 29 October 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

To be honest I did try making a con file last week messing with various stuff, and it didn't work, it would always say there was a bunch of mistakes when trying to load. And I'm sure there were. :)


Well the error messages should point you in the right direction, but if it was the sheer quantity of error mesages that put you off just bear in mind that, just like the 'C' language, CON files are such that just one mistake can generate an absolute shed load of error messages all over the place including other files.

My top two errors these days are 1) using "var" instead of "varvar" e.g. setvar instead of setvarvar, doesn't always give an error message that is obvious but once you've seen it a few times you know _exactly_ what you feck'd up :) The other is getting { and } to balance, can lead to quite a bit of head scratching but using notepad++ with a CON-specific plug in can really help there.

I agree with Mark, plenty of trial and error needed, you learn lots that way.

I am toying with a tutorial on getting started with CON files. Not put much time in as, well, didn't think there'd be anyone to read it so currently it is in the form of Mechanic-with-a-head-like-a sieve notes.

The Wiki has all the info but, agian, as Mark said it kinda assumes you are already up to speed and indeed some information just isn't easy to find - I've asked a few questions only to get a (helpful) direct link to a relevent page that I swear never turned up via Google or starting with the scripting page of the Wiki.

TTFN,
Jon
1

User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #5345

View PostMark., on 29 October 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Sometimes it seems that the wiki was written assuming basic knowledge of cons and you can get lost if just starting out.

It was! There are a few older 1.3D/1.5 CON tutorials that have been on the wiki for years that everyone is expected to read before getting started with the more complicated stuff. It's mentioned pretty early on in the basic page about scripting you reach via the wiki's front page. :)
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#5346

View PostThe Mechanic, on 29 October 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

My top two errors these days are 1) using "var" instead of "varvar" e.g. setvar instead of setvarvar, doesn't always give an error message that is obvious but once you've seen it a few times you know _exactly_ what you feck'd up :) The other is getting { and } to balance, can lead to quite a bit of head scratching but using notepad++ with a CON-specific plug in can really help there.


If you format your tabs as 4 spaces and always do your code with indentations keeping track of brackets isn't very hard since you have a visual line to go from (and can always move down the lines and see if it's there).

These days I always write like this:
useractor notenemy MYACTOR
    ifvare SOMEVAR 0
        state dostuff
    else
    {
        getactor[THISACTOR].extra SOMEVAR
        ifvarg SOMEVAR 10
        {
            ifvarg SOMEVAR 20
                state domorestuff
            else
            {
                mulvar SOMEVAR 100
                getactor[THISACTOR].xrepeat SOMEOTHERVAR
                divvarvar SOMEVAR SOMEOTHERVAR
                state doevenmorestuff
            }
        }
    }
enda


Blame TerminX for always enforcing fairly strict style guidelines when you code with him.
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#5347

View PostMblackwell, on 29 October 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

If you format your tabs as 4 spaces and always do your code with indentations keeping track of brackets isn't very hard since you have a visual line to go from (and can always move down the lines and see if it's there).


Yes - and no. The issue usually arrises when I modify a function such as commenting out blocks whilst trying to get my crap to work. It also takes me a few hours to switch between c#/c++/php/javascript mode and CON file mode during which time I do some real dumb things like

state my_really_cool_function
{
}


which I then compound replacing the trailing '}' with ends. I hate getting old.

View PostMblackwell, on 29 October 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

These days I always write like this:
useractor notenemy MYACTOR
    ifvare SOMEVAR 0
        state dostuff
    else
    {
        getactor[THISACTOR].extra SOMEVAR
        ifvarg SOMEVAR 10
        {
            ifvarg SOMEVAR 20
                state domorestuff
            else
            {
                mulvar SOMEVAR 100
                getactor[THISACTOR].xrepeat SOMEOTHERVAR
                divvarvar SOMEVAR SOMEOTHERVAR
                state doevenmorestuff
            }
        }
    }
enda



Wot no comments ? Shame on you :)

View PostMblackwell, on 29 October 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

Blame TerminX for always enforcing fairly strict style guidelines when you code with him.


Yes, and that is good. We differ on very few - I could write an essay on why you should ALWAYS follow an if statement with curley braces even for single statements and why I am obviously right :) But it's irrelevent, I've learnt over the years that it is far better to have a common standard whatever that standard is. I've asked if there is one of the Eduke source files that could be used as a suitable style reference.

Anyhow, it sounded like PsychoGoatee was put off playing with CON files because of getting a bunch of errors, just wanted to highlight that just one actual error can lead to a shed load of errors but not to panic it may well just be the first error that is important.

TTFN,
Jon
0

User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#5348

Yeah, the first error you find is the most important. Everything is caused by it generally.

BTW I avoid { } for single statements because in CON it prevents the code from branching internally (and saves resources). Which is why things like nullop exist.

Also comments are only for when code is unclear on its own*. That code clearly says to do lots of stuff!

Spoiler

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User is offline   Kyanos 

#5349

I came across a modelling trick from an old game. They mapped the uv coordinates to the bottom left corner, 1 pixel. The engine is then told to ''float'' the pixel around the texture, using numbers pulled from the angle of the camera, it makes the object look flat and shiny.

Would you guys duplicate that in EDuke32?

This post has been edited by Drek: 11 November 2015 - 09:37 AM

1

User is offline   Mark 

#5350

I can't picture in my head what that looks like or what it's use would be. Do you have a link to a screenshot or video of that old game?

This post has been edited by Mark.: 11 November 2015 - 10:48 AM

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User is offline   Kyanos 

#5351

It's from turok actually, I've started helping duke64 with his turok mod. A few HUD models (auto shotgun barrel) and the keystone stands (gold metal trim) Extra life triangles, and health pickups are good examples of the effect.

This post has been edited by Drek: 11 November 2015 - 12:06 PM

1

User is offline   Mark 

#5352

I'll check out a youtube vid of Turok then......

I guess I was wrong about something. I was mistaking an older game called Trespass with Turok. Anyway, I saw in Turok 2 the spinning pickups you mentioned. I would just create the spinning model ( or voxel if that's your thing ) and not worry about modifying the game engine.

BTW, was it Diaz that had screenshots of a fantastic looking jungle in his unfinished mod? Team up with him if he's still around.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 11 November 2015 - 01:02 PM

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User is offline   Kyanos 

#5353

I'm ripping the models, they come like that it's how I even figured it out. I have no problem changing them to a static skin, I just thought is was a cool feature and it would be a better mod if the effect worked the same way here.

added a video:


This post has been edited by Drek: 11 November 2015 - 04:00 PM

1

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#5354

View PostDrek, on 11 November 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

I came across a modelling trick from an old game. They mapped the uv coordinates to the bottom left corner, 1 pixel. The engine is then told to ''float'' the pixel around the texture, using numbers pulled from the angle of the camera, it makes the object look flat and shiny.

Would you guys duplicate that in EDuke32?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't sound like best practice - that is what smoothing groups are for. As Mark says, if you can link to a vid or a tutorial, that would be great.

One big problem with EDuke and MD3 models is that NPherno's MD3 tool tends to babber up smoothing groups, placing them at UV seams, which is really bad.

One technique they use nowadays is vector normals. They used it in Alien Isolation and Star Citizen. You make your model so that the normals of the object hold all the shape. That way, the only normal maps that you need are textures (like rusty metal,worn paint, leather, etc. You can create all your spec and normal maps without doing any baking at all. Things like table tops and flat surfaces are easy to have looking 'flat' so that reflections behave as they should do. You still have to bake character details down from a high poly sculpt, but an awful lot of props can be made using this technique.

EDIT: Blender tut:



This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 11 November 2015 - 04:19 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

#5355

OK Drek. Now I see what you're after.
0

User is online   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #5356

For the Duke 64 mod, I'm going to connect the spriteext members xpanning and ypanning to the UV coordinate of models.
1

User is offline   Kyanos 

#5357

View PostHendricks266, on 11 November 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

For the Duke 64 mod, I'm going to connect the spriteext members xpanning and ypanning to the UV coordinate of models.


Awesome. So I would be able to get at it in def or con somehow? On my end I want to do it for one or two surfaces in a md3 with more surfaces defined to regular textures.

This post has been edited by Drek: 11 November 2015 - 05:44 PM

1

User is offline   Mark 

#5358

Speaking of models, could you make it possible to assign additional normal and spec map skins to models using different pals like you can now with the diffuse skin?

I have some custom enemies with multiple skins but they all have to share the same normal and spec maps.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 11 November 2015 - 05:55 PM

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User is online   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #5359

View PostDrek, on 11 November 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

Awesome. So I would be able to get at it in def or con somehow? On my end I want to do it for one or two surfaces in a md3 with more surfaces defined to regular textures.

It would be from CON, and would apply to all surfaces.
0

User is offline   Kyanos 

#5360

Thanks for the info. I can definitely work with that, I'll just split apart some models and define the pieces to multiple sprites.
0

User is online   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #5361

You can now access a model's UV panning through setactor[<id>].xpanning and ypanning, in the range 0-255.
0

User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#5362

What's the mapster script command for deleting sprites?
0

User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#5363

View PostMicky C, on 11 December 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

What's the mapster script command for deleting sprites?

As stated in the M32script command index, there's deletesprite. It's not tested by a.m32 though, so... good luck :thumbsup:.
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User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#5364

Hmm that's weird, could have sworn I did a search for "delete" on that page but maybe it was something else. Anyway I got it off Hendricks on chat a week ago and it did exactly what I wanted, saving many hours of finicky work https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

Not sure how the mapper who did all that work would feel about me undoing it though...
0

User is offline   LeoD 

  • Duke4.net topic/3513

#5365

After importing maphacks into Mapster's 3D mode via F9, is it possible to save these changes into the map file?
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User is online   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #5366

View PostLeoD, on 21 December 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

After importing maphacks into Mapster's 3D mode via F9, is it possible to save these changes into the map file?

I don't see any mechanism to do this. I would have written an m32script to apply sprites' angoff members to their angles, but it doesn't look like m32script currently has access to spriteext[].

Is angoff the only thing you would want applied? (I don't see what else could be done.)

Helix: If I were to expose spriteext[] to m32script, would you prefer that I add the members to sprite[] (like how the game lumps sprite, hittype, and spriteext into getactor and sprite[]) or would you prefer I add a spriteext[] to the language?
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User is offline   LeoD 

  • Duke4.net topic/3513

#5367

View PostHendricks266, on 21 December 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

Is angoff the only thing you would want applied?
Ideally everything that can be done in maphacks. I might have been less of a nuisance during beta testing Decay if such a feature had been available. I admit that it's a niche application for limited purposes.
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User is online   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #5368

mdx/y/zoff, pitch, roll, and flags (notmd, nomdanim, away1/2) are not stored in .map files at all. That leaves angoff and light (which I forgot about earlier). I've never created a Polymer light, so I don't know if all the parameters that the light command takes are covered by an SE light.
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User is offline   LeoD 

  • Duke4.net topic/3513

#5369

View PostHendricks266, on 21 December 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

mdx/y/zoff, pitch, roll, and flags (notmd, nomdanim, away1/2) are not stored in .map files at all.
So it is not possible to have pickups adapted to a sloped ground without maphacks. Important to know for a non-mapper like me. I suppose that the others (except notmd, nomdanim) could be translated from MHK to an M32 script which actually modifies the map.

While we're at it - the mdzoff parameter on floor (and ceiling?) aligned sprites is interpreted differently by Polymost and Polymer.
Vanilla Red 5:
Attached Image: red5-no-mhk.jpg

Red 5 + MHK in Polymer renderer:
Attached Image: red5-mhk-polymer.jpg

Red 5 + MHK in Polymost renderer:
Attached Image: red5-mhk-polymost.jpg

Debug MHK attached. Is there a right or wrong, or is it just to be considered as two different legal interpretations?
In the latter case I'd prefer Polymost to be changed, since almost all maphacks are made using Polymer.

Attached File(s)



This post has been edited by LeoD: 21 December 2015 - 12:08 PM

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User is online   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #5370

View PostLeoD, on 21 December 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

While we're at it - the mdzoff parameter on floor (and ceiling?) aligned sprites is interpreted differently by Polymost and Polymer.

The z offset should be in the same direction as it is without the floor-aligned bit set. Do you know which renderer is correct in this case?
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