[Perro Seco]

Where can I get a map converter to convert V7 maps into Tekwar V6 maps?

[Hendricks266]

http://advsys.net/ken/convmaps.zip

[Perro Seco]

Thank you!

[oasiz]

My link Might require launching trough DOS4GW

I didn't look in to that package to see if it has this but you might be interested in this, It's the TekWar build.exe compiled from the released sources and handles the SpriteXT functions.
While TekWar seems to be compatible with the regular build format, it appeds it's own extensions during saving that contains various attributes for NPCs and such, including "Does this NPC drop an item X ?" "What is his behavior ?" etc..

Without this you will end up with broken maps as I am pretty sure that other programs just truncate the rest.

If you need help with understanding the game, I have played it a bunch and I take pride in being the fastest TekWar player in the world!
In a more serious note, If you have questions on why some things are so fucked up then I can help you.

[Corvin]

Oasiz, where did you get that exe?

From the tekwar src?

Does it work good?

[oasiz]

Tekwar sources, It's pretty much what you get with Duke3D build except for some missing features, major one being the absence of slopes.
Compiled it from TekWar sources with watcom (not openwatcom) and it worked just fine.

Take an older 1995'ish kenbuild editor and you'd have something similar aside from the extensions.
Looking trough the sources they had some nice ideas planned for the extensions but it never really worked out.

[Corvin]

Maybe they used them in WH2 then or the Fate team included them. They are based on WH1/Tekwar.

[Perro Seco]

Thanks a lot for your link Oasiz, with the map converters I couldn't place NPCs on the maps. I played Tekwar a lot too, and I always wanted to make some maps for it. Now I only have one problem; I don't know how to edit the NPCs properties, only assign them states.

And thank you Corvin for your page, I find it very useful.

[Corvin]

Your Welcome Perro.

Is there anything I should know more about this version of the editor? I'd like to have more info for the file.

[oasiz]

This version of the editor is basically 1.3d Duke's editor that has some more tiny bugs, 1995 snapshot.
It's just like regular build but they added the sprite attribute editing to it.
Also during map load / save you will get extra status text that refers to the extension append/load

WH1's build might be somewhat similar but I am not sure.

WH2 already has slopes in it so I think they just took a new engine snapshot and started off from that. Haven't really tried it.

About the property editor, it's a key combo. I'm at work so I can't verify this but it was one of the lower row letters and it might have required shift/ctrl/alt or something as well.
I think that it was one of the F keys that printed the list of new buttons.

If you want to see the game get destroyed TekWar is stupidly easy once you figure out some things about it, it's a real shame since the game has loads of potential. I think it might be easier to re-make it for eduke straight away as it's full of bugs anyway.
Where old games tended to be long because they were hard, TekWar is long because it tries it's hardest to confuse you.

[Corvin]

Thanks for clearing somethings up, much appreciated. Now we need a faq on the TekWar specifics

@oasiz, which version of watcom did you use 11c? or 9.5?

[alias conrad coldwood]

I know it has little to do with your problem, but I don't want to start a new thread with the same title -- here's a universal Build Map converter (supports v3 to v7, converts to any other version)

Beside that, it's just weird how the extra data chunk was meant to be a Map5 feature, which they scrapped in Map6. I suppose the TekWar structure is not the same as the Map5 one? -- every map loading code I've seen so far doesn't bother checking what could be located after the sprite table anyway... it shouldn't be such an issue to keep the extra data.

Would you happen to have one of the original TekWar map around? I only got the one from the demo (city.map), but there's just not enough info in the extra chunk to get any kind of information out of it.

Attached File(s)

•  MapConv.rar (59.6K)
  Number of downloads: 369

[Corvin]

I could send you the maps from TekWar if you send me a PM with your e-mail address.

Does this converter save sprite data for other games too?

[alias conrad coldwood]

Corvin, on 26 October 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

Does this converter save sprite data for other games too?

I'm not sure I understand the question... I know it can convert maps from PowerSlave, LameDuke and TekWar; but I never tried to read and copy extra data...

EDIT: Just to clarify: I could easily carry over the extra data from one map format to another, I don't think it should cause any issue when loading the map. However, this data WILL be ignored by the level editor, so it's not going to be saved after the map is modified.

[Corvin]

Yeah, I assumed you where saving the sprite attributes and extended data. I guess not.

[alias conrad coldwood]

Here's what I have...

EDIT: Fixed a typo.

Attached File(s)

•  TekwarSpecs.txt (10.03K)
  Number of downloads: 318

[Corvin]

Wow, alot accomplished in a short time, many thanks.

[alias conrad coldwood]

Corvin, on 27 October 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Wow, alot accomplished in a short time, many thanks.

No problem. Relied a lot on the Build sources though. I think I should try to collect LoTags for every sectors using maps your provided, I'm pretty sure there's more undocumented stuff (the source is a bit of a mess).

EDIT: Since they were mentioned in the thread, I checked Witchaven, Witchaven II and Fate: none of them seems to use sprite extensions; I take Capstone only used the format for TekWar...

[alias conrad coldwood]

Sorry, last update (MapConv 0.3): now you can carry over extensions from one format to another, you can also dump the whole extension list to a script file that can be imported again later... but it's super tricky because EVERY extension in the table MUST be used, AND sprites can only call existing extensions (in short: only define what you need, nothing more, nothing less) -- tried with TekWar build, I don't have any Map5 extension so I'm not sure if it works properly or not.

All in all, it's probably not the most reliable thing on Earth and you'd rather stick with Oasiz' Build.

Attached File(s)

•  MapConv.rar (63.22K)
  Number of downloads: 220

[Corvin]

Thanks for this, we appreciate it!

We need more programers stepping up like this to make these obscured tools.

[oasiz]

Nice documentation and converter, thanks for doing it!

I agree, converting maps is a bit risky since the build was specially programmed to handle these extensions, it has nothing to do wit regular build map format.
This is something that the (game) developers added themselves.

Personally I think that redoing big parts of the game wouldn't be such a bad option (duke3d mod?) since the original code is very buggy and the engine can even crash easily if you clip in to geometry by accident and whatnot.
Tekwar itself is very much like a weird twisted version of kenbuild that has AI / NPCs, most of the effects and things you see are just the stock code that was already present in kenbuild from what I quickly glanced trough.
Even jumping is like the jump button inside build editor I believe.

It could be a much better game with some extra effort and doing simple fixes on things that obviously they ran out of time on, things like diving underwater instead of the current weird teleportation system that is just disorienting.

[alias conrad coldwood]

oasiz, on 29 October 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Nice documentation and converter, thanks for doing it!

I agree, converting maps is a bit risky since the build was specially programmed to handle these extensions, it has nothing to do wit regular build map format.
This is something that the (game) developers added themselves.

Personally I think that redoing big parts of the game wouldn't be such a bad option (duke3d mod?) since the original code is very buggy and the engine can even crash easily if you clip in to geometry by accident and whatnot.
Tekwar itself is very much like a weird twisted version of kenbuild that has AI / NPCs, most of the effects and things you see are just the stock code that was already present in kenbuild from what I quickly glanced trough.
Even jumping is like the jump button inside build editor I believe.

It could be a much better game with some extra effort and doing simple fixes on things that obviously they ran out of time on, things like diving underwater instead of the current weird teleportation system that is just disorienting.

No problem.

I don't know Tekwar at all (played the demo back in the days, that's about it -- and your run is hilarious by the way! I like it) but it does look like a mess; I understand what they tried to do with extensions, but I also understand why they skipped the idea entirely for their next games... talking about a port, that would be great to have a build-only port; never really looked into eduke32 sources, but I suppose (just a wild guess, I truly don't know) it's very Duke3D-oriented. Having a more "neutral" build port would probably help for redneck rampage, shadow warrior and maybe powerslave too? I don't know.

[TerminX]

Redneck Rampage was a fork of the Duke3D code. If we ever get the source, we can shoehorn it in.

[Corvin]

I too think TekWar would be a cool game without the problems with some design issues and bug fixes. I used to know all the problems but would have to play through to find them again.
I just remember them switching the gun effects around on two of the weapons latter in design from the demo to the full game.

Also I think RR was done from the v1.3d game code, not sure if the RA later game used anything from v1.5.