[Jblade]

A while ago I mentioned removing the classic collection from the TC, and a few people weren't fond of that idea. My reasoning was that at the time there wasn't a huge amount of content with the first release, and I wanted to include an extra set of good maps to play with the new characters. However EP2 is significantly larger than EP1, so the need for extra content isn't so pressing.

However, it's proven quite popular and it helped emphasis the community nature of the TC (even if that has faded over time) I'm not too convinced that keeping it a separate entity is a wise choice now though. The TC's format has changed quite a lot and you can approach missions from a fairly nonlinear sequence now, via the command interface (which serves a purpose a cross between the X-com interface and the galaxy map from Mass Effect) You can choose any mission you like at any time (assuming you've reached it through the campaign)

So....one of the ideas I had was to remove the classic collection from the episode screen, and integrate them into the mission select screen as side missions that will appear (possibly straight away or depending on what you do) They would be specifically marked as different from AMC TC levels, so that the player will know which levels are part of the TC and which are part of the classic collection. Thoughts?

Finally, should levels serve some role in the narrative, or should they be emphasized as purely a collection of classic Duke usermaps for the player to try out with the AMC characters? And do you think edits to levels that allow modification to further suit the new gameplay is a good idea, or purely leave them untouched? A few levels had extra temp weapons placed into them in the classic collection and I didn't receive any feedback if people liked or disliked that...I'm kinda struggling to see what I should view the collection as in the eyes of other people (Just to clarify incase anybody misunderstands, I do not mean using existing usermaps and turning them into main AMC TC levels and missions...more like minor random missions that may crop up like in X-com)


Thanks in advance if you come up with a written response, but even just filling out the poll will help me get a handle on what people would like.

[Micky C]

I'd still say that the TC is community thing. Although you and me are doing a big chunk of the work, I can think of 8 mappers whose work will end up as part of episode 2, at least another 2 more mappers who are currently working on maps (although I'm not sure which episode they'll end up in), and perhaps another 3 or more who have expressed interest in mapping for the TC.

My vote was for: integrating it into the main game but keeping it seperate as standalone levels, and to integrate AMC TC gameplay. Some of the classic collection maps are pretty good (others not so much ) which is why they should be kept IMO, but should be emphasized that they're not part of the main storyline. I don't see why the AMC squad can't be doing "regular" missions when they're not out saving the world/solar system/universe. As for integrating gameplay, I think some touches would be nice; I remember liking how C4 was used at the start of one of the levels instead of what I imagine was originally a pipebomb and crack. Things like that are good, plus maybe some extra AI variety to spice things up.

Of course it'd be great to hear what others think.

[Jimmy]

I realize this thread is months old, but I never saw it. Here's what I think, you should have them as optional backstory missions. Like say you pick up a diary, and it mentions a character did this or that, that unlocks a mission where you go through what was mentioned.

[Micky C]

That's sort of how the secret levels in episode 2 are found (and there's a few of them; short but sweet), so we've got that idea covered.

[TheDragonLiner]

I agree totaly with Micky C !

The advantage of the new system on the current one would be that in the end you would be able to acess any mission while in in the current system you have 4 by 4 choices and if you wanted to play one specific map you'd have to go through some other maps ...

Also about adding temp weapons (since nobody commented on that) I'd say it has been done reasonably in the current game but sometimes not enough. For exemple in "Descent to Hades" there is one temp weapon but since the level is short it's no problem but most maps actualy don't have any. Same for "Invaders" since we lose all the weapons the fact there's a temp one allows us not to be unarmed against 5 enforcers which would be ridiculous.
My point is that having temp weapons in maps that don't already have one (and there are losts of them) can help people unlocking them for the loadout screen and/or for the second episode if they've just completed Ep 1 then they would re-think theire loadout to anticipate as many situations as possible and so on ... besides this would have helped in the current game since the Katana and the Nail Gun are impossible to find (one in a invasion level and one by entering a command line) and consequently impossible to unlock.

Also, it might be asking too much but, it would be nice to have a few new maps included even if it's just 2 or 3 the idea would be there, unless the modifications (if they're operated that is) done to the existing maps makes them play very differently but we wouldn't want to run the risk of screwing one up or making it any worse or too easy (with too much temp weaps for exemple). And actualy this would be the occasion to fix glitches in some levels like the one I reported in the "Resort Island Base" (5th map or the first series) where there are glass doors that stick to each other or the door that looks like a library, behind which we find the Yello Key, which must be activated twice ...

[Jblade]

White Guilt, on 03 January 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I realize this thread is months old, but I never saw it. Here's what I think, you should have them as optional backstory missions. Like say you pick up a diary, and it mentions a character did this or that, that unlocks a mission where you go through what was mentioned.

I like this idea - as Micky said there are some secret side missions that are picked up through a minor bit of detective work but I like the idea of these missions being unlocked by books and stuff....maybe through conversations as well.

Quote

besides this would have helped in the current game since the Katana and the Nail Gun are impossible to find (one in a invasion level and one by entering a command line) and consequently impossible to unlock.

I never really considered that people would aim to unlock all of the weapons which is why I didn't put those in...now that I'm aware of that though I'll go to greater efforts to ensure that all of the new stuff is either featured somewhere or locked off until the next release.

[Jimmy]

And then the optional unlockable side missions could unlock other things like new weapons.

[Jblade]

They unlock something even better, don't worry about that part of it

[Jblade]

Just want to take some feedback in, any suggestions for maps to include in the classic collection? Right now I've got the red series and Wet dream, I'm also thinking of including the CBPs as they are in the same community spirit as the TC was originally made in (although that has kinda faded since most of the team retired from Building )

Exceptions are maps that the author has forbid any edits to the levels (which naturally leave things like the Roch levels out, although I'm not a massive fan of them compared to the levels they inspired) which I won't add in.

[Jimmy]

Here are some older maps I really enjoy and you don't hear much about them these days;

• Fruit Loops and Leaving L.A. by C3PO
  
• Needle Time (St. Duke Hospital) by Alias Conrad Coldwood
  
• Streets of Gotham City by Daniel Aashage
  
• Escape From An Unknown Street by Filip
  
• FbSp003: City Under Siege by Geoffrey van Dijk
  
• Russian Missile Base by Jason Bredhauer
  
• Freedom by Kevin Cools
  
• The Restless Resort by Maarten Pinxten
  
• Factory and New York Plaza by Michael and Robert Caraballo
  
• City of Screams by Nut Wrench
  
• The System: Opposing Facility by Ryan Rouse
  
• anything by Salacius Crumb
  
• Jungle Factory by Semicharm
  
• Jungle Tour 3 by Stephano Lessa
  
• The Starlite Project by Stranger
  
• Dark Alley and Canyon City by Vedran Jelenic

[Robman]

White Guilt, on 05 February 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Dark Alley and Canyon City by Vedran Jelenic

Vedran from Croatia made some nice looking sw maps also

[Micky C]

White Guilt, on 05 February 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Here are some older maps I really enjoy and you don't hear much about them these days;

• Fruit Loops and Leaving L.A. by C3PO
• Needle Time (St. Duke Hospital) by Alias Conrad Coldwood
• Streets of Gotham City by Daniel Aashage
• Escape From An Unknown Street by Filip
• FbSp003: City Under Siege by Geoffrey van Dijk
• Russian Missile Base by Jason Bredhauer
• Freedom by Kevin Cools
• The Restless Resort by Maarten Pinxten
• Factory and New York Plaza by Michael and Robert Caraballo
• City of Screams by Nut Wrench
• The System: Opposing Facility by Ryan Rouse
• anything by Salacius Crumb
• Jungle Factory by Semicharm
• Jungle Tour 3 by Stephano Lessa
• The Starlite Project by Stranger
• Dark Alley and Canyon City by Vedran Jelenic

The question is do those maps explicitly allow modification?

Robman, on 05 February 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

Vedran from Croatia made some nice looking sw maps also

Again with the Shadow Warrior? This is a Duke mod. Episode 2 is about as far from Shadow Warrior as you can get

[Robman]

Micky C, on 05 February 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

Again with the Shadow Warrior? This is a Duke mod. Episode 2 is about as far from Shadow Warrior as you can get

I'm sorry man... I f*cking love Shadow Warrior and I wish to communicate on a build related level, Sw is as close as I can get to your Duke. I made 1 duke map back in the day, 1997 maybe? Had no sector effects and was uber lame, but then I found Sw I used to play dial-up modem deathmatches of Duke3d with friends from school in that time period also. I remember Quake 2 came out and my buddy had a p2 266 ... Good ol' days.

I talk, probably too much and I seem to yank and splat my Sw errywherr, sometimes it lands in unwanted areas.

[Jimmy]

Micky C, on 05 February 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

The question is do those maps explicitly allow modification?

No idea what James' criteria is for that exactly, so I didn't look. Cool maps reguardless.

[TheDragonLiner]

The Fruit Loops usermap is already present in the TC itself ^_-

[Jblade]

Those are some strong suggestions, I'll take a look around and see which ones are the most suitable (and if they allow modifications)

[Rhaisher]

Hmmm... how about "Mincer City" by RazorZ (although its readme states that "this map cannot be used as a basis of a new level", I don't know if that excludes modifications or not ). "Dogville" by Taivo Maripuu (whose readme doesn't states anything ) or "Clear The Coast" by the Oostrum brothers (you have to ask for their permission, though. But as Merlijn is an AMC member and Maarten is an AMC collaborator... )?

[Jblade]

I already asked Merlijn about the Red series, I don't think they will mind at all to see Clear the Coast included (incidentally that map has fast become one of my favorite maps for the game)

[Jimmy]

thedrawliner, on 05 February 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

The Fruit Loops usermap is already present in the TC itself ^_-

I thought some of them might be, but I included them because some of these are just really old and easy to forget.

[TheDragonLiner]

I think that among all your suggestions only Fruit Loops is already in the TC, I've played the classic collection more than 40 times and I don't recall seeing any of your suggestions apart from Fruit Loops

[Radar]

I voted to get rid of the classic collection (I think it takes away from the awesomeness of the main campaign), then I saw that the Red maps were added in and potentially Clear the Coast, and now I'm super excited.

[Micky C]

I had a blast playing Clear the Coast with the TC, even more than playing the original map, although I did get stuck right at the end

[Jblade]

How did you get stuck? No ammo or something? or just lost?

[Micky C]

Well right after the boss fight with all the battlelords in that underwater area I just couldn't figure out where to go or what to do. The ammo was ok.

[Jblade]

You should have a jetpack at that stage - use it to fly up into the room at the far end of the room where you can find a switch that'll destroy the machinery - a door will then open up to the upper right of the OTHER side of the room with a bunch of enforcers and stuff. Kill them and fly up there to finish the map.

[Radar]

A masterpiece for sure.

I once tried playing CTC with the Duke Nukem Forever mod so I could ride a bike around the place after killing all the aliens. It was fantastic.


EDIT: On the topic of maps by the Oostrum bros, you might want to consider putting Abba in the classic collection. Another one of my favs.

P.S. If it's not already clear, I'm a huge fan of Merlijn and Marteen's work for Duke. I just finished playing Imperium again yesterday.

[Radar]

I'm not sure if requests on maps to include are still being taken (I understand if the collection is frozen due to the mod already being released) but one map I'd love to see in the collection is WGCity.

[Radar]

Question about the map collection: am I supposed to be able to access the maps from the mission selection interface in the episodes? Or are they only accessible through selecting "user map" and then picking them out of the folder?

[Lt.Havoc]

The classic maps in episode 2 are the EDF missions I suppose. No idea about episode 1 classic collection

[Radar]

OMG. That's exactly what I was looking for. I have no clue how I missed it. Thanks.