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Total 3D level editing idea

User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#31

View PostDarkhog, on 03 July 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

3. You may be right about that, but editing complex maps with TRORs all over the place still would be more convenient with Trenchbroom-like tool.


Introducing Isometric View Mode (F3 key). Allows you to view your map from any incline/angle/pitch/whatever giving you full freedom to see the 3D-ness of the map from any view, absolutely fantastic for TROR. You didn't really think we'd have to edit ROR from a 2D top-down view did you? http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

3 levels using TROR all seen at the same time. It's kind of hard to visualize what's going on just from a screenshot of it, but rotate it around a bit and you get a very clear picture of what's what and where.


http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/1_zps9f1f709b.png

This post has been edited by Micky C: 04 July 2014 - 01:14 AM

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User is offline   Photonic 

#32

View PostDarkhog, on 03 July 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

1. I can see mapster32 existing along with that Blender export script. It's all about choice, so people familiar with one or the other can use tool they're more convenient with.
3. You may be right about that, but editing complex maps with TRORs all over the place still would be more convenient with Trenchbroom-like tool.

Well, one problem about Mapster is that it has too many keyboard bindings and too little toolbars and menus. So no, scripts aren't going to help with that one.

lol
1. 3.
lol
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User is offline   MetHy 

#33

I've been friendly with you and I'm the first who say I would love a more 'modernized' level editor; but this just sounds to me like you're just too lazy to learn the key bindings and want somebody else to do your hardwork so you don't have to learn a few keys.

Also using Blender to make Build engine maps sounds like a terrible, terrible idea; and probably even more complicated than 'modernizing' mapster32's interface.

BTW - were you trying to learn mapster32 key bindings instead of using your time to make this (useless) thread and answer to the posts; you would have already learnt most of them.

This post has been edited by MetHy: 05 July 2014 - 05:46 AM

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User is offline   Hank 

#34

View PostDarkhog, on 03 July 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

1. I can see mapster32 existing along with that Blender export script. It's all about choice, so people familiar with one or the other can use tool they're more convenient with.

This workflow does not apply to mapster32. You can make models in Blender and import those as md3 into mapster32, right now. The actual level making is a one step process, done right in mapster32. To introduce a bridge between a modelling program and mapster32 would add an extra cumbersome step for level making. That is why no one here takes this suggestion serious.

As for convenience, yes, you need to make a print out of all key commands and learn them. Or you can make a gui for mapster. This is the only thing missing for mapster32. Mapster32 is updated nearly every day, so it is as modern and relevant as it possibly can get.

If after all the comments above me, you still want a Blender bridge, use a different game engine. EDuke32 is not it. http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

This post has been edited by Hank: 05 July 2014 - 06:37 AM

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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#35

It's possible to export bsp files from Blender to the various Quake engines and even Doom 3.

http://www.katsbits....cs-tutorial.php

If nothing else, try and see if you can get a script that will convert bsp files to .map format. Not sure if such a beast exists, and I don't have time to google it for you.

Importing MD3 files into EDuke and using them as level geometry is a horrific pain in the ass. You have to create blocking sprites and positioning stuff precisely is a nightmare. You also very quickly run into limitations with MD3's poly count limit.

Nobody here is interested in doing anything other than what they have been. Get a UDK license or learn to mod for Doom 3.

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 05 July 2014 - 08:57 AM

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User is offline   Photonic 

#36

script that will convert bsp files to .map format
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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#37

How about we pay force Drek to sit at the computer all day for a few weeks so he can create a variety of seamless, perfect hills and valleys of all shapes and sizes in Mapster. Then we can cut and paste them all into our maps as needed. :P

This post has been edited by Mark.: 05 July 2014 - 09:35 AM

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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#38

I don't understand why you can export from Blender to BSP and then over to map, but you can't get from blender straight to map?
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User is offline   Jblade 

#39

Numerous people with actual coding knowledge have repeatedly said it's not possible, it's just not possible (and this is not an 8bit bias, the two are simply incompatible - you might as well ask why you can't build a map with a legoset)

Quake 3's engine is a massive different kettle of fish to Build, it's not going to be relevant in the slightest what you can do with that. I can appreciate you might be under the impression that the guys don't WANT to do this, but I'm telling you it's because it is literally impossible (and even if it wasn't, you understand how difficult it would be to even approach coding it)

also drek's post was a joke, if you clicked on the link.

This post has been edited by James: 05 July 2014 - 10:33 AM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #40

View PostTea Monster, on 05 July 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

I don't understand why you can export from Blender to BSP and then over to map

How can you do that?
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#41

I saw the link and assumed that he'd found one. I haven't clicked on it.
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User is offline   Darkhog 

#42

There are no impossible things, there is only lack of skills. I obviously lack those needed to do this, otherwise you'd get exporter alpha. Are you saying you lack those as well?
-3

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#43

That's just underhanded
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #44


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User is offline   Photonic 

#45

View PostTea Monster, on 05 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

I saw the link and assumed that he'd found one. I haven't clicked on it.

Sorry buddy :P T'wasn't trollin' u

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/081/250/yo-dawg-xzibit-43.jpg
1

User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#46

Let's not forget that Ken Silverman, creator of the build engine itself, wrote a script/program to convert Doom maps to Build engine maps. Let's examine the facts shall we.

1) Doom and Build are both 2.5D engines, with the same structure of geometry (sectors, walls etc).
2) They both have the same limitations; vertical walls, no 3D stuff.
3) The damn thing doesn't work properly and requires a fair amount of manual editing to fix issues.

So, if the guy with the ultimate knowledge of Build can't fully convert something from a simple, (relatively) similar format to a Build map, how the hell are we going to convert from a 3D mesh???

For the sake of argument, let's say it is possible and that after years of research, development and testing, you finally end up with something capable of converting simple meshes to a workable map. Like I said, terrain would be tricky, so that's out of the equation, 3D geometry due to TROR is out of the equation. What's the point? Once you import your simple mesh, you'd have to texture everything, add all the sprites, tag all the effects, implement gameplay. For all the work, you might as well just make the damn level in mapster anyway. It's really not that hard or slow. If I had a clear vision of what I wanted (layout, architecture, gameplay) I could probably whip up a pretty solid, high detail fun map in a week or two, assuming I had the time and worked during most of each day of course. If you know what you're doing you can make some really good looking stuff really quickly.

So, everyone's said it's impossible (or otherwise, insanely impractical and incredibly limited if you choose to assume not impossible) It's not exactly something you can just whip up in an afternoon, and make a thread with the word "DONE" in big colourful letters the next day. Like others have said I'd much rather they invest the time in vamping up mapster.
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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#47

I seem to remember back when I first joined the forums ( late 2009 ?? ) that someone posted pics of E1L1 that were converted from BSP ( I'm assuming from a Quake mod ) to map format. They mentioned in the post that a whole lot of glitches occured and that it wasn't worth dealing with all the issues. So if I remember correctly, it has been done.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 06 July 2014 - 08:04 AM

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User is offline   Photonic 

#48

View PostMark., on 06 July 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

I seem to remember back when I first joined the forums ( late 2009 ?? ) that someone posted pics of E1L1 that were converted from BSP to map format. They mentioned in the post that a whole lot of glitches occured and that it wasn't worth dealing with all the issues. So if I remember correctly, it has been done.

Link please :P
And why would e1m1 exist in bsp format in the first place. No offence but I think you may be confused with the opposite conversion, map -> stl then to bsp.
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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#49

I edited my post while you were composing. It may have been from a quake mod. I don't recall. Its from so long ago it might have even been in the 3DR forums.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 06 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

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User is offline   Photonic 

#50

All jokes aside.
I found this. It will convert from .map (not builds .map but .map pre .bsp half life levels from worldcraft or hammer) to a playable GZDoom TEXTMAP (UDMF)
http://forum.zdoom.o...=33248&p=638156

Quote

It reads all brushes from the Half-Life uncompiled map (.MAP, not .BSP) and uses their coordinates to build equivalent 3d floors in a GZDoom setting, all inside a very large 16384x16384x16384 cube sector with sky and line_horizon background, which would be very useful for making void maps. The result is something unreadable unstable in Doom Builder, but fully playable in GZDoom.
I stopped working on it because of a serious limitation: no speed optimization on GZDoom 3d floors at all.

Here is the source code, compilable with Dev-C++ or whatever works for you.


Note that it just makes a mesh readable in GZDoom with some tags and clipping. Never could this be used with build, or even DooM. It's going from one 3D format to another. No one has ever gone ID Quake style 3D level -> doom 2.5D.
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