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TROR Question

#1

Is it possible to add a roof top to a building I have already made?? I'm building from the inside out and don't know if it's possible now.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#2

Um, yeah.

Select the area around the building and extend it upwards.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#3

Might be helpful to post how to select / deselect sectors one at a time (I can't remember so).
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#4

; & right ctrl & right alt

Sometimes mapster shortcuts feel like playing musical chords.
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#5

Mickey... I'd totally love to know how you 'only' select the outside of my building. I'm all ears..... Because When I 'select' the area. It selects EVERYTHING. So please elaborate how this process is done since you seem to be the master of building on this forum with your boasting ego of yours.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#6

View Post1337DirtAlliance, on 16 June 2014 - 04:09 AM, said:

Mickey... I'd totally love to know how you 'only' select the outside of my building. I'm all ears..... Because When I 'select' the area. It selects EVERYTHING. So please elaborate how this process is done since you seem to be the master of building on this forum with your boasting ego of yours.


You didn't specify what the problem was, generally with help threads, the more information the better.

Theoretically everything you should need to know about TROR is in the TROR guide on the wiki. Included on the page is a little section on precision highlighting (which is also found on the mapster32 keyboard commands page).

Here you go:
http://wiki.eduke32....OR_related_keys

I also recommend checking out the "two story building example" further down the page.

This post has been edited by Mickey C: 16 June 2014 - 04:24 AM

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#7

View PostMickey C, on 16 June 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

You didn't specify what the problem was, generally with help threads, the more information the better.

Theoretically everything you should need to know about TROR is in the TROR guide on the wiki. Included on the page is a little section on precision highlighting (which is also found on the mapster32 keyboard commands page).

Here you go:
http://wiki.eduke32....OR_related_keys

I also recommend checking out the "two story building example" further down the page.




I'm pretty sure I was crystal clear on my question. I asked how a roof aka TROR is possible when an internal component has already been completed. I know How to make a TROR from scratch when you know that is going to even happen. But in my case were I built a single story building and then was like... oh fuck... I need to add this key feature to my building and the only possible way to achieve this is by utilizing the TROR feature. And knowing I already fucked up the first part of this process. I'm wanting to know, if possible. How to add a roof to this building. I'll attach a pic to show you the damage needed. Shown in green is the area I need to add two more stories to the building to get the height needed for this roof.

And for the record, following the Wiki is like trying to follow a foreigners directions. It tells you essentials but doesn't really lead you on to how they are clearly implemented.


http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/XxMetal-GEARxX/capt0009.png



This is what happens when you try to alt select everything

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/XxMetal-GEARxX/capt0010.png



As you see. You aren't able to select the container
0

User is offline   Kyanos 

#8

View PostDrek, on 16 June 2014 - 03:39 AM, said:

; & right ctrl & right alt

Sometimes mapster shortcuts feel like playing musical chords.

Or maybe ' & right ctrl & right alt
One selects A sector one combo deselects a single sector. 2d mode.

Or just harass Micky more ^_^
1

User is offline   Micky C 

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#9

Send me the map and I'll have a look at it within the next 24 hours or so. It's difficult to see what exactly is going on from the 2D view. It might be easier for me to just try to do it and you have a look at how it's done.

This post has been edited by Mickey C: 16 June 2014 - 05:08 AM

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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#10

There are so few outdoor sectors so it should be easy to do with manual selection.
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#11

LoL f'n Drek.. I was messing with those before I even posted.



I shot you a pm with the current build Mickey. I included everything I have so you don't get weird black bullshit textures.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#12

The only map I can see is 25kb and only appears to be a fraction of the map in that shot?
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#13

https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing

Forgot mapster plugs your map into the main folder and the one in my addon was outdated. My bad
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#14

I'll have a look tomorrow, it's super late here. Although someone else could also have a look in the meantime if they don't mind a touch of HOM. If I can get it to work ill probably take a picture or two and annotate it with steps along the way.
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#15

View PostMickey C, on 16 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

I'll have a look tomorrow, it's super late here. Although someone else could also have a look in the meantime if they don't mind a touch of HOM. If I can get it to work ill probably take a picture or two and annotate it with steps along the way.


Thank you, I appreciate it!

If anyone else wants to take a stab at it ask 'n i'll pm the core content
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#16

Ok so, problem solved.

The reason why the main sector wouldn't select, is because you had a child sector (as well as a void sector) dragged outside of their parent sector. This is a very bad situation (any sector drawn within a bigger sector should never leave the boundary of the bigger sector). I'm surprised it doesn't register as a corruption actually. Generally in mapping if something's causing a glitch, just shoving it into a far corner of the grid isn't going to make it go away. If you're not sure how to fix it, ask for help on the forums. Luckily it's pretty easy to fix.
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/th_1_zps502e5fa0.png

You drag the child sector inside the parent, as well as the void sector (which you make into a child sector with ctrl-s), and you simply join them with the parent.
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/th_whoops2_zps5fef8e90.png

So, drag a box around the whole thing to select everything.
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/th_4_zpsae0ccb92.png

Drag a smaller box around the building, holding semicolon (:) when you release alt. This deselects the sectors in the box. Also note that if also hold down ctrl when you release alt, only the sector you're pointing at with the cursor will be deselected (or selected, if you're holding down apostrophe ' instead of ^_^. I'd suggest playing around with these modifiers since they come in quite useful with general mapping. It's hard to tell, but there's a little minus sign next to the cursor since I'm holding semicolon for deselecting.
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/th_5_zps3829427b.png

Finally here's everything except the building selected, not too hard eh.
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/th_3_zpsf600dc2b.png

Now you extend those sectors up by pressing ctrl-e, and at the prompt of whether you want to extend up or down, you press a for up. To make the roof, just press ctrl-s in the void sector in the top like in a regular sector (you can shift the vertical editing range by pressing pg up and pg down). I also raised the roof a bit for realism. All done.
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/th_8_zps97949412.png

When the think about it, the above steps aren't difficult or time consuming, I literally did the whole thing in about a minute (definitely spent more time making this explanation). It really is just a matter of following the wiki. It might seem a bit tedious and confusing at times, but push through, and try to follow that guide word for word and you should end up with results. As with other aspects of mapping, try out the different key combinations and types of constructions to see what does what. I've attached the map below:

https://www.mediafir...gwhp89nmnyjmprr

This post has been edited by Mickey C: 17 June 2014 - 03:47 AM

2

User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#17

https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_images/cgs/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />Mickey C, on 17 June 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:



I didn't even know that was possible without breaking the map for good.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#18

Are you saying it causes some kind of hidden permanent problem under the hood?

I've made a post about this situation in the mapster32 thread so we'll see what Helix has to say about it if/when he checks it. IMO there should be some kind of warning, at least outside of script_expertmode.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#19

Stuff like that always usually can break map but it only appears later when you start adding new sectors etc. Their walls get wonky and are thrown outside the map boundaries etc.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#20

Yeah I've worked on maps where if I try to add a new sector, sometimes funky stuff happens. I generally get around it but I imagine the underlying problem is still there.

Is there a list of this subtle-problem causing stuff somewhere? I doubt that it's common knowledge. People need to know that things like having really long walls, or (less commonly known) drawing really, really big sectors can mess things up permanently.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#21

Never heard of that myself.

The obvious one is to never built outwards.
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User is offline   Jblade 

#22

View PostMickey C, on 17 June 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

Yeah I've worked on maps where if I try to add a new sector, sometimes funky stuff happens. I generally get around it but I imagine the underlying problem is still there.

Is there a list of this subtle-problem causing stuff somewhere? I doubt that it's common knowledge. People need to know that things like having really long walls, or (less commonly known) drawing really, really big sectors can mess things up permanently.

That's a good point, I think it's harder to screw things up in Mapster32 but other times there can be errors that just pop up out of nowhere. There IS an indicator for a wall that's too long (it's blue in 2D mode) but it's hard to really know what constitutes a sector that's too big (sometimes it renders fine, other times there's constant glitches)
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User is offline   Stabs 

#23

technically you can drag a white sector that is inside a red sector out into no mans land and it will draw that sector through skywalls, it takes it height of the host sector and will not draw if you cannot see the host sector though, i used it in DNE mainly DNE04 and DNE02 to put buildings in the background like a skybox, probably polymer only though. The host sector also has to be large enough to accomodate your white drawing aswell.

This post has been edited by Stabs: 18 June 2014 - 12:44 AM

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#24

Bad Ass Mickey!! Thank you! I didn't think that fucked up sector I put aside was the cause of that not making it work in the first place. Reason why I was like uhhhhhh you're pullin my leg man lol.

Should of delt with that first before trying to raise the roof WOO WOO hahahahh.




And yea, The birth of this map wasn't really supposed to expand as large as it did. But it turned into where I want my first level to start. So I built outward. Not a bad thing If I was going to not use TROR. But, shit happens.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#25

View PostStabs, on 18 June 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

technically you can drag a white sector that is inside a red sector out into no mans land and it will draw that sector through skywalls, it takes it height of the host sector and will not draw if you cannot see the host sector though, i used it in DNE mainly DNE04 and DNE02 to put buildings in the background like a skybox, probably polymer only though. The host sector also has to be large enough to accomodate your white drawing aswell.


As long as you didn't notice any gameplay or visual glitches then it's probably ok, it's kind of walking the line though. In one of my really old abandoned WGR2 maps, I had this really big sector, and it was actually interfering with hitscan weapons, causing them to "hit" sections of space where nothing existed. There was also the problem with some coded effects not working properly even though they were set up just fine, not sure if they're due to the sector issue or not.

And lol I just looked at my little guide again and the semicolons and brackets turned into winky faces...

Edit:

Quote

Bad Ass Mickey!! Thank you! I didn't think that fucked up sector I put aside was the cause of that not making it work in the first place. Reason why I was like uhhhhhh you're pullin my leg man lol.

Should of delt with that first before trying to raise the roof WOO WOO hahahahh.



I'm just glad you had all the sky sectors the same height, it was a very clean and quick job. I suppose even if they weren't I could use the "set sky height" feature, but it sure beats having all sorts of different funky heights and slopes on the ceiling making the job difficult.

This post has been edited by Mickey C: 18 June 2014 - 12:52 AM

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User is offline   Stabs 

#26

yeah its a bit hacky, but never came up as an issue with the corrupt checker surprisingly

as for the hitscan thing, must be what the blue walls that are too long are for, i cant say i have ever had this happen,

lol damn its been nearly 20 years now and i still havnt found an engine or game to move on to, stupid brushes and scaling and their anal cube locking and fucking leaks WTF and everything else is some glorified terrain editor with models haphazardly splashed all over the place.

This post has been edited by Stabs: 18 June 2014 - 12:57 AM

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#27

Yea that was something I used to do when I first started building but then saw how it can fuck things up or you run into invisible walls with the jetpack
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#28

View PostStabs, on 18 June 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

as for the hitscan thing, must be what the blue walls that are too long are for, i cant say i have ever had this happen,


The walls themselves definitely weren't too long, just the sector was way too big. It wasn't until much later that I found out that drawing massive sectors was a known problem (at least for a few of the old timers), which permanently messed up maps.
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User is offline   Stabs 

#29

quite surprised you noticed this hitscan bug actually with how thick the vis gets, good find.
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#30

deleting and joining sectors in tror seems to kill tror effect. Was trying to copy and paste these arches so I didn't have to sit there and make every single one and apply all the slopes to each one and now i'm paying the damn price. This is why I rather just stick to doing it the long way because 'speed' building seems to fuck shit up.

In this picture you can see I peeled back the unconnected sectors I copy and pasted from the connecting wall sectors I copied from.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/XxMetal-GEARxX/capt0011.png


When you grab the points and manipulate them you see you can peel the walls that should of been connected. Are two separate walls.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/XxMetal-GEARxX/capt0013.png


So trying to join these sectors I make connections to the two areas and then Ctrl+Del to delete that middle area so I can then push them together and get a normal red line
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/XxMetal-GEARxX/capt0015.png

Connect those two now and this is what you get. The clipping on those two sectors are now gone. But also is the TROR
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/XxMetal-GEARxX/capt0017.png


Is there some special way of deleting TROR sectors? I tried Ctrl+J like the wiki said for joining. But I have never had any luck using keys to join sectors.
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