[ashley678]

screenshots just remind me of another prey. not duke nukem.

[X-Vector]

ashley678, on May 8 2009, 08:27 PM, said:

screenshots just remind me of another prey. not duke nukem.

Prey, Half-Life 2, Black Mesa: Source, Deus Ex, Unreal 2 - anything but the DNF that got me excited in 2001.

There's just a very clinical and characterless look to it and for me it almost totally lacks the "I want to explore these environments" buzz of the Unreal screens.

[Ramen4ever]

yossa, on May 8 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

It's a default postion for models that are dropped into editor/not rigged yet.

... It's also the default. "I'm so buff I can't keep my arms against my sides" pose.

[ThePinkus]

Some of those infestation pictures reminded me of Duke, all you had to do was add in slimers and Octabrains and you'd be set

That Valet pic is honestly, pretty awful. It's such simple detailing, and the building itself isn't even done. Makes me get the impression they were still a ways off.

[Bad Sector]

I think the model is used to keep scale in mind.

@X-Vector:
These are "in-editor" screenshots and judging from the unfinished state of the casino (there is a huge wall there which i doubt would exist in the final game), i assume these levels weren't finished. Also it is possible that since these images serve as a portfolio, they contain only the level design aspects that the artist wanted to show for his work.

[Redcard]

I feel very sorry for the developers.

As a professional in this field, it will be very hard for them to find another job when they have spent years with nothing released on their resume to show for it.

All the screenshots and models and what not.. an untrained person could come up with those in 12 years time, much less a trained person. Some look nice, some look "eh", but all of them are things that don't take too long in a professional development house. Most projects start as mockups and what not , so we don't even know if we were looking at in game stuff or just fanciful wishes.


I wouldn't hire someone from 3DRealms. Would you? Honestly? We don't know what anyone there is capable of. Oh sure, they can produce.. but development? What product did they release, really? Hype is not a release. Talk about how wonderful the game is going to be doesn't do anything. Any company can create hype, and if they're not ever able to deliver, then all their talk is worthless.

I'm upset, having been looking forward to this game.. to see if this company could prove everyone wrong and actually do it.. but the sad fact is, many people in this industry have thought it was a joke all along.

[ThePinkus]

Yeah, they wouldn't show monster spawns or items or the like in a portfolio pic of an environment.

I would hire the character modelers, Redcard

[ashley678]

well its kinder pretty obvious they wernt close if they did indeed need 5 more million. that is alot of money. id say they were about half way finished.

[Tekedon]

ashley678, on May 8 2009, 11:27 AM, said:

screenshots just remind me of another prey. not duke nukem.

I think the screenshots look pretty good.

BUT!!!

I would be happier if they looked like crap, because the game will probably never come out anyway.. so if the screenshots looked like shit I atleast would feel better about not getting to play it... ever.

NOW I feel that I (and everbody else for that matter) have missed out on something that could have been extraordinary.

[Redcard]

ThePinkus, on May 8 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

Yeah, they wouldn't show monster spawns or items or the like in a portfolio pic of an environment.

I would hire the character modelers, Redcard

They'd show whatever it took to convince people to fund or use the project. I've seen items and monster spawns in environment mockups before. Heck, I've seen an entire "level runthrough" faked by a 3d movie company. The fact is, in mockups, your job is to sell the finished product before its even started. If that means to your end customers, or to internal customers, or even to incoming hires, that's the job.

But you are correct. I'd hire the character modelers. If they are allowed to use their DNF stuff in their portfolio so that it can be seen. There's a chance that that may remain work product, though.

[MrAdidaKing]

Prometheus, on May 8 2009, 08:44 AM, said:

Long time lurker, and odd that my first post is to defend Joe but

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!

He has a baby coming in three weeks. For those of you who aren't parents, that is as big as it comes. He has just lost his job and that means unless he gets employed soon, he could lose his house, everything. And let me tell you, the first weeks of parenthood are not the time to be worrying about getting a job, even in a great economic climate. DNF is a game. There is NO COMPARISON. I think Joe is doing a fantastic job right now - I would have lost the plot a long time ago and so would most people here in a similar situation, and I would have been considerably more vitriolic in my response to whining posts about DNF getting cancelled.

So let's stop the Joe bashing and get back to staring blankly into space wondering what will happen now.

I feel like everyone in the world misread and/or did not read 90% of what I wrote. let me say this: PLENTY OF PEOPLE IN AMERICA HAVE BEEN LAID OFF, HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS, HAVE LOST THEIR SOURCE OF INCOME AND HAVE FAMILIES TO FEED MORTGAGES TO PAY (HELL MAYBE SOME OF THEM HAVE A BABY ON THE WAY TOO) THIS ECONOMY ISN'T BEING NICE TO ANYONE. HE SHOULDN'T PITY HIMSELF LIKE HE IS THE ONLY ONE.

BTW im not yelling I just wanted that part of my post to be heard and seen. I don't hate Joe. Hell I feel pretty God damn bad for him. BUT having said that, he has shown the same attitude towards fans before he lost his job aka when 3d Realms was still "doing well." So it is pretty upsetting to me that after all of their fans who have been sticking by them for 12 years can not express their sadness disappointment etc about something they have an emotional tie too (especially when most of their fans became gamers because eof D3D, started careers as programmers mappers etc because of D3D.) 3DR (and Joes Siegler in particular) are NOTORIOUS for shitting on their fans. They have done so pretty much after D3d came out... They have repeatedly said no to their fans who wanted a ROTT2 a Shadow Warrior 2... and even more importantly the release of DNF. Hell wouldn't you agree that constant updates and screen shots would have been acceptable to ANY of you?

And so now their FANS, their following, the people who have supported them through EVERYTHING aren't allowed to express themselves. Granted I shouldn't be this surprised because people couldn't even ask for a status update, express the fact that they were mad, etc. on the 3DR forums. So I guess I should have expected that Joe would be just as pissed if their FANS were to express disappointment, sadness, or whatever the fuck they are feeling.

To me it is pretty clear why 3DR has failed (it is more than one thing.) But Take 2 obviously realizes that the way that 3DR as a company operates is not kosher (as have many other gamers who have repeatedly said they do NOT give a fuck about DN4 because of how GB, 3DR and Joe Siegler treat their fans.) T2 has realized that they are not willing to be business smart in many areas and to me these include: The treatnent of their fans (obviously T2 knows that if you openly mistreat your fan base you are alienating people who will spend $60 on a game... the more fans you alienate the less money you will make) Obviously how to successfully complete a game and more importantly how to run a company(especially in terms of media and public relations... think about the "Fuck T2" comments GB repeatedly said.)

Lets do a what if: What if GB really did ask for the 5 million to finish the game... Do you think that after all GB and 3DR has done to T2 and the fans of 3DR (in terms of the verbal abuse and the fact that it has taken 13 years to finish a game) that it would be wise for T2 to invest a good amount of money in to what seems like a disaster? The answer is no.

[Daedolon]

Tekedon, on May 8 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

I would be happier if they looked like crap

Why? Wouldn't that mean that you wasted all the years waiting for some terrible game to be released? At least now we know it would've been great. In that sense, 3DR didn't fail us.

[ashley678]

as some guy just posted. 3d realms arent the only guys losing there job. ascaron who made sacred an sacred 2 have lost theres pretty much.

you then have 10000s unemployed but no one cares for them.

its like when a normal person dies no one cares unless its something weird or an out break of something.

but yet when a celeb dies its plastered everywhere.

[Redcard]

MrAdidaKing, on May 8 2009, 11:50 AM, said:

Lets do a what if: What if GB really did ask for the 5 million to finish the game... Do you think that after all GB and 3DR has done to T2 and the fans of 3DR (in terms of the verbal abuse and the fact that it has taken 13 years to finish a game) that it would be wise for T2 to invest a good amount of money in to what seems like a disaster? The answer is no.

It's just business.

You don't go to a company like Take 2, who survived an attempted takeover last year.. in the middle of a recession.. and demand 1/20th of their revenue for a game.

It would have worked outside of a recesison.

It would have worked outside of the takeover attempt by EA.

It would have worked had it not been 12 years late.

But I can't blame Take2 for finally deciding that they've waited for this one long enough.

[Redcard]

Daedolon, on May 8 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

Why? Wouldn't that mean that you wasted all the years waiting for some terrible game to be released? At least now we know it would've been great. In that sense, 3DR didn't fail us.

You don't know it would have been great.

It's just marketing materials. We don't know WHAT the game would have been like.

[Tekedon]

Daedolon, on May 8 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

Why? Wouldn't that mean that you wasted all the years waiting for some terrible game to be released? At least now we know it would've been great. In that sense, 3DR didn't fail us.

I don't know, that's just how I feel right now. I'm still very disappointed in 3D Realms... but everybody can make mistakes so I'm not mad at them, just disappointed.

[Kathy]

Daedolon, on May 8 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

Why? Wouldn't that mean that you wasted all the years waiting for some terrible game to be released?

They were wasted either way. He meant that if DNF looked like crap then there won't be something to miss about it not being released.

[MusicallyInspired]

MrAdidaKing, you entirely missed what I was trying to say. If you react this way to everybody who's disappointed you who's also lost a job they've been at for almost 20 years or so you're a horrible horrible person. Just because you or thousands of others are going through the same thing he is doesn't give you the right to run him or anyone into the dirt. Maybe you're right. But don't kick them while they're down. As if you're better than they are. What's the matter with you? Do you get off on it? Taking pleasure in someone else's suffering (in real life, not video games ) has got to be the lowest possible thing on earth that you can do and makes you a very small person. That's like kicking a puppy who can't walk because of a broken leg and justifying yourself for it because other puppies have broken legs too and it's whimpering just a little too loud. Sure it's annoying, but....come on.

Just have a little consideration instead of overreacting like a 9-year-old.

[SyntaxN]

ashley678, on May 8 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

as some guy just posted. 3d realms arent the only guys losing there job. ascaron who made sacred an sacred 2 have lost theres pretty much.

you then have 10000s unemployed but no one cares for them.

its like when a normal person dies no one cares unless its something weird or an out break of something.

but yet when a celeb dies its plastered everywhere.

Go to some Sacred fan forum and you will find the same stuff as here. In the end, everyone cares about his shit (meaning stuff he cares about) and everyone elses comes 2nd. It?s a natural thing, and in this case, i care about what happens to Duke Nukem Forever and the people who made it.

[Daedolon]

Redcard, on May 8 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

You don't know it would have been great.

It's just marketing materials. We don't know WHAT the game would have been like.

True, but anyone can distinct between something that looks promising and something that looks terrible.

Lotan, on May 8 2009, 09:58 PM, said:

He meant that if DNF looked like crap then there won't be something to miss about it not being released.

Still, 3DR gets all the respect from me.

[Tedades]

3DR site is back online

[Ramen4ever]

I'm curious were these apparent facts are coming from?

Anyway, the only fact I see is 3dr shutting down. And things like even a fan site getting 19,000+ views for this thread alone. That's with 600+ comments, shacknews is at over 1300 comments. I'm not sure how many views. The thread at 3dr as over 190,000 views and it's only like 3 days old. Pretty decent numbers. If it was closer to 1000-2000 then I wouldn't be surprised by an abandonment. It's only good business to exploit the numbers.

[MrAdidaKing]

MusicallyInspired, on May 8 2009, 11:59 AM, said:

MrAdidaKing, you entirely missed what I was trying to say. If you react this way to everybody who's disappointed you who's also lost a job they've been at for almost 20 years or so you're a horrible horrible person. Maybe you're right. But don't kick them while they're down. As if you're better than they are. What's the matter with you? Do you get off on it? Taking pleasure in someone else's suffering (in real life, not video games ) has got to be the lowest possible thing on earth that you can do and makes you a very small person.

Just have a little consideration instead of overreacting like a 9-year-old.

Where did I imply that I am getting off/taking pleasure in JS losing his job?

How did you conclude that I act this way to everyone who has lost their job?


And how is this overreacting?



Really, if you look at what I posted it was a realistic view of what 3DR has repeatedly done. If its a fact then its not an attack nor is it kicking someone when they are down.

[MusicallyInspired]

MrAdidaKing, on May 8 2009, 02:07 PM, said:

Where did I imply that I am getting off/taking pleasure in JS losing his job?

How did you conclude that I act this way to everyone who has lost their job?


And how is this overreacting?



Really, if you look at what I posted it was a realistic view of what 3DR has repeatedly done. If its a fact then its not an attack nor is it kicking someone when they are down.

You're definitely giving the impression he doesn't deserve sympathy. Which is just as bad.

[trackit]

guys lets not fight eachother...

Actually im too not worried about not being able to play DNF and more worried about how people at 3DR will cope with the blow... Yeah, i know that there are a lot of people who have lost their job in that economic situation... hell i too got laid off 3 months ago basically just as suddenly (luckily found a new and better job recently), but i guess its natural that you care more about people you know and 3DR is company that we have followed for many many years. So its natural that we feel empathic towords 3DR crew.

[EviL AnGeL]

The lack of any formal statement 3 days after the event is just strengthening the negativity. I understand that it has to be carefully constructed and worded properly but sometimes it's more important that something is said quickly rather than what is actually said and the longer it goes the worse it's going to get.

I think people just want to hear the truth about what went wrong, is there any future hope for the game or 3DR as a company and put this shit to bed once and for all.

[Redcard]

EviL AnGeL, on May 8 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

The lack of any formal statement 3 days after the event is just strengthening the negativity. I understand that it has to be carefully constructed and worded properly but sometimes it's more important that something is said quickly rather than what is actually said and the longer it goes the worse it's going to get.

I think people just want to hear the truth about what went wrong, is there any future hope for the game or 3DR as a company and put this shit to bed once and for all.

The truth about what went wrong is very simple. Scope Creep. Things kept creeping into specs, and that destroyed the project. All the while, to keep the project alive, they kept hyping it.

Finally, out of cash, with no end in sight, they went to people with their hands out. Nobody gave. Boom. Done.

As for "why didn't anyone know" about it? That's how this business is. You don't know it's coming until you walk in one day, and your manager meets you at the desk and walks you to the HR office. Or until you all get called into the cafeteria for a "quick team meeting" and are told not to return to your desks.

Otherwise, if you did know.. or if employees knew.. they might worry about it all the time. Or worse, they might take their stuff and delete it, upload it to a competitor, etc.

Anyone on the inside of the software engineering industry is not surprised this has happened. They're just amazed that the shell game was kept up this long.

[Kathy]

MusicallyInspired, on May 8 2009, 10:59 PM, said:

Just have a little consideration instead of overreacting like a 9-year-old.

Joe pretty much offended the poster saying that it's insulting to read that people whine about the game. Many people were there because of the game and, yes, they(nit all of course) do care more about the fate of this game than about moderator's life. Just like Joe probably didn't care much about someone else's life while enjoying his jolly-good life several weeks ago.

The news on every site mention DNF. That's the main news. Not some chaps losing their jobs(which happens every day).

That may sound cruel, but I do care about DNF more than about some Joe. He was nothing to me. I didn't talk to him or interact much on the 3dr forums. So, whatever.

[MusicallyInspired]

Lotan, on May 8 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

The news on every site mention DNF. That's the main news. Not some chaps losing their jobs(which happens every day).

That may sound cruel, but I do care about DNF more than about some Joe. He was nothing to me. I didn't talk to him or interact much on the 3dr forums. So, whatever.

Oh, and you knew DNF more did you? And interacted with it? You probably know as much about DNF as you do about Joe.

Besides that, the bottom line is it's pretty barbaric to care about a game more than a human being...even if you don't know him. But whatever, guys. Keep your opinions. I won't argue.

[Ramen4ever]