[HiPolyBash]

 Duke Legacy, on 28 March 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

I don't know if anyone here mention this idea to 3DRealms make it like EDuke32 Add Mod Support and Usermap Content with MP, Im sure it would work just don't know how much though since this game is basically new.

Considering it's based on and built using EDuke32 I don't think modding or usermaps will be an issue.

[NNC]

If the Bombshell Prequel ever sees the light of the day, and if it sells relatively well, it might means there is still some market for oldshool shooters and WT's failure was just because of Gearbox mistreatment (high pricing, removal of Megaton etc). If Bombshell fails as well on the market, it means there is a close to zero future for oldschool platformers as commercial releases. It might also means that the remaining bugs of WT will never gets fixed, and Allen/Levelord will never return again to the mapping scene. That would be a damn fucking shame though, but as it seems now it's a high chance.

[Micky C]

I wouldn't call it mistreatment per se, just bad circumstances.

1. High price.
2. Game being re-released many times.
3. Very little new content.
4. 1000's of hours of free user maps to play instead.
5. Not being the full package of expansions (meaning there's no way to get them legally at a reasonable price).
6. Some lazy design such as the final boss.


Yes, points 5 and 6 Gearbox should have rectified. Point 5 may be addressed in the future but then they'd probably charge for it as a separate product .


Points 2-4 don't apply to the Bombshell prequel, and if the game is long enough and of sufficient quality than a high price (~$20 perhaps, you'd be pushing to go higher if you want to appeal to a wide audience).

[NNC]

I don't agree with 3-4. The return of the original devs and the original composer, along with the rewind feature and a new 3D renderer are enough justice for an anniversary release. It just shouldn't cost higner than Megaton, should have had the 3 expansions, proper modding support, and they should have some quality control before release (ie. fixing the last boss or the muffled sounds before getting smashed by the critics). Maybe they should have add 3 extra levels even if that means some delay, as critics don't watch size but numbers.

[Micky C]

The return of some original devs doesn't equate to quantity of new material.

We never asked for a new renderer in a closed-source release, and polymer has been available for many years now.

[TerminX]

 Nancsi, on 28 March 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

If the Bombshell Prequel ever sees the light of the day, and if it sells relatively well, it might means there is still some market for oldshool shooters and WT's failure was just because of Gearbox mistreatment (high pricing, removal of Megaton etc). If Bombshell fails as well on the market, it means there is a close to zero future for oldschool platformers as commercial releases. It might also means that the remaining bugs of WT will never gets fixed, and Allen/Levelord will never return again to the mapping scene. That would be a damn fucking shame though, but as it seems now it's a high chance.

If? The game is coming along great and I expect an official announcement to be made within the next couple of months, including the title of the game and a proper reveal of everything else.

[NNC]

 Micky C, on 28 March 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

The return of some original devs doesn't equate to quantity of new material.

That's why I said they should have the 3 expansions in the release and no higher price than Megaton. Even with all the other troubles, this would have been a welcome port for the fans then...

But this is all ifs and buts, and the past now, Bombshell Prequel will be the benchmark how the oldschool Build Engine FPS can sell today. I'm pretty sure they won't release it without quality control, etc. So if it sells poorly that means mass audiences don't care about oldschool. If it sells well, it might mean there is hope for more in the future.

[NNC]

 TerminX, on 28 March 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

If? The game is coming along great and I expect an official announcement to be made within the next couple of months, including the title of the game and a proper reveal of everything else.

You are my hero TerminX!

[Micky C]

 Nancsi, on 28 March 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

That's why I said they should have the 3 expansions in the release and no higher price than Megaton. Even with all the other troubles, this would have been a welcome port for the fans then...

Even then, the expansions wouldn't classify as 'new' material. Although if they were adapted to the new renderer with good light placement that would certainly make the price more justifiable I'll admit.

 TerminX, on 28 March 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

If? The game is coming along great and I expect an official announcement to be made within the next couple of months, including the title of the game and a proper reveal of everything else.

Solid colour surfaces or bust

[TerminX]

What do you mean by solid color surfaces? We do have 77 different palette lookup tables for recoloring everything...

[Fox]

Regarding World Tour sales, Randy said something among the lines of Duke being a bad investment but doing it for love. So it seems it sold badly on all platforms.

[Jinroh]

So true, since I bought it, at launch I've been able to get exactly 0 games on Xbox One. In the one Duke group, people are always posting messages to play, but never coordinate. >_<

Honestly I ended up buying it twice. I pre-ordered the digital version and couldn't refund after I found the physical copy was coming out, that I just HAD to have for my Duke collection. x3

 HulkNukem, on 28 March 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

All I can say is that I have never seen other players online for WT on PS4 since I bought it launch day, and the PS4 has a higher player count than X1 does.

I am super pumped for the new Bombshell BUILD too, you guys are doing some amazing from screenshots so far btw! I always need more BUILD. ^^

[Micky C]

 TerminX, on 28 March 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

What do you mean by solid color surfaces? We do have 77 different palette lookup tables for recoloring everything...

I was just making a reference to how people think only intentionally bad graphics are oldschool, like Gorescript.

[brownfarted]

 Nancsi, on 28 March 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

I don't agree with 3-4. The return of the original devs and the original composer, along with the rewind feature and a new 3D renderer are enough justice for an anniversary release.

GIDF pls go

[necroslut]

 Micky C, on 28 March 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

I wouldn't call it mistreatment per se, just bad circumstances.

1. High price.
2. Game being re-released many times.
3. Very little new content.
4. 1000's of hours of free user maps to play instead.
5. Not being the full package of expansions (meaning there's no way to get them legally at a reasonable price).
6. Some lazy design such as the final boss.


Yes, points 5 and 6 Gearbox should have rectified. Point 5 may be addressed in the future but then they'd probably charge for it as a separate product .


Points 2-4 don't apply to the Bombshell prequel, and if the game is long enough and of sufficient quality than a high price (~$20 perhaps, you'd be pushing to go higher if you want to appeal to a wide audience).

Most of these points don't apply to the same degree on consoles, where last time I checked games still sell for higher prices and mods aren't a concern. With people who aren't hardcore fans there's a high chance they wouldn't even know the expansions existed.
Still, it can't have been a runaway hit on consoles either, but the circumstances would be a bit better there.

[Lunick]

 necroslut, on 28 March 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

Still, it can't have been a runaway hit on consoles either, but the circumstances would be a bit better there.

I hope you don't mind that I sort of attacked your post, I believe the game would have sold better on console rather than PC too but It seemed like you had some statistics or something as you mentioned "from what I've seen".

[necroslut]

 Lunick, on 29 March 2017 - 01:59 AM, said:

I hope you don't mind that I sort of attacked your post, I believe the game would have sold better on console rather than PC too but It seemed like you had some statistics or something as you mentioned "from what I've seen".

There were some linked, probably estimates, some way back in (I suppose) the World Tour thread. I looked for the links a bit but couldn't find them again.
From what I recall it had sold aroughly twice as much* on PS4 and 1.5 times as much* on Xbox One, but its been a while so I would take that with a pinch of salt.

I'm not sure they really expected it to do well on PC, but only releasing it on console probably wouldn't have gone over well with people.
*compared to PC/Steam

[Hank]

 necroslut, on 29 March 2017 - 04:50 AM, said:

There were some linked, probably estimates, some way back in (I suppose) the World Tour thread. I looked for the links a bit but couldn't find them again.
From what I recall it had sold aroughly twice as much* on PS4 and 1.5 times as much* on Xbox One, but its been a while so I would take that with a pinch of salt.

I'm not sure they really expected it to do well on PC, but only releasing it on console probably wouldn't have gone over well with people.
*compared to PC/Steam

Was it this thread?
https://forums.duke4...page__p__267450

The latest guess numbers show a grand total of 160k units sold, pc included.

Compared to Megaton, it's a drop in the bucket.

[HiPolyBash]

 Fox, on 28 March 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

Regarding World Tour sales, Randy said something among the lines of Duke being a bad investment but doing it for love. So it seems it sold badly on all platforms.

Randy does it out of love...demented Misery style love...the kind of love that smothers you with a pillow in your sleep because that's what's best for you...even though it's a bad investment he still does it out of love.

[Sanek]

 Nancsi, on 28 March 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

But this is all ifs and buts, and the past now, Bombshell Prequel will be the benchmark how the oldschool Build Engine FPS can sell today. I'm pretty sure they won't release it without quality control, etc. So if it sells poorly that means mass audiences don't care about oldschool. If it sells well, it might mean there is hope for more in the future.

If you mean big studio's interest in Build Engine, then yes. I hope that this Bombshell prequel can spawn another Build game or two.
But regardless of the game's performance, there's always a small chance that some standalone TC will become popular, and even more retro FPS will follow. Buuuuut I guess it will never become a reality, since there's so much more modern free engines lying around. Unless you're a big company, you virtually can't make a commercial Build/Eduke32 game, because of the extremely complicated licensing process.

[Micky C]

 Sanek, on 30 March 2017 - 03:24 AM, said:

Unless you're a big company, you virtually can't make a commercial Build/Eduke32 game, because of the extremely complicated licensing process.

Huh?

[Lunick]

 Micky C, on 30 March 2017 - 04:15 AM, said:

Huh?

It's funny this keeps popping up and then TerminX or Hendricks explains how easy it is actually, the information for doing so must not be readily available because I see this kind of misinformation on a few forums.

[necroslut]

 Hank, on 29 March 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Was it this thread?
https://forums.duke4...page__p__267450

The latest guess numbers show a grand total of 160k units sold, pc included.

Compared to Megaton, it's a drop in the bucket.

Yeah, that was it. No wonder I couldn't find it if I was looking in the wrong thread.

All I really said though was that it did better on consoles than on PC, and going by those numbers it sold approx. 4x the copies on PS4 and 3x on Xbox, which was even more of a difference than I remembered. I do think that qualifies as doing considerably better than on PC.

Also, as have been mentioned before, Devolver practically gave away copies of Megaton, while World Tour I believe still hasn't dropped below 10$, so its not really a fair competition there.

[Lunick]

 necroslut, on 30 March 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

Yeah, that was it. No wonder I couldn't find it if I was looking in the wrong thread.

All I really said though was that it did better on consoles than on PC, and going by those numbers it sold approx. 4x the copies on PS4 and 3x on Xbox, which was even more of a difference than I remembered. I do think that qualifies as doing considerably better than on PC.

Also, as have been mentioned before, Devolver practically gave away copies of Megaton, while World Tour I believe still hasn't dropped below 10$, so its not really a fair competition there.

Pure sales outweighed all the bundle sales Devolver did.

[Micky C]

 Lunick, on 30 March 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

It's funny this keeps popping up and then TerminX or Hendricks explains how easy it is actually, the information for doing so must not be readily available because I see this kind of misinformation on a few forums.

I'm just confused as to why he specified you'd have to be a big company.

[MusicallyInspired]

I guess because he assumed that you'd need company-dedicated lawyers or something to understand and properly navigate the BUILD licenses?

[Sanek]

 MusicallyInspired, on 30 March 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

I guess because he assumed that you'd need company-dedicated lawyers or something to understand and properly navigate the BUILD licenses?

 Micky C, on 30 March 2017 - 04:54 AM, said:

I'm just confused as to why he specified you'd have to be a big company.

I can be wrong, but as I undrestand you need to contact Ken Silverman and Eduke32 Team members and make a license arrangement with each one of them. The problem is that they can name any price they want. It can be fair...or unfair - anything can happen! I doubt that a regular Duke4 Joe, who make his stuff during his spare time, can make such a risky investment. That's why only companies who have some kind of budget will be willing to spend money on that.

But I can be wrong! Sure, Eduke32 Team deserves a credit and their share in a game you made, but when you don't know how big they're share is...this is confusing.

[icecoldduke]

 TerminX, on 28 March 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

If? The game is coming along great and I expect an official announcement to be made within the next couple of months, including the title of the game and a proper reveal of everything else.

I wish you guys the best of luck and I hope the game moves a fuck ton of units .

[necroslut]

 Lunick, on 30 March 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

Pure sales outweighed all the bundle sales Devolver did.

I'm not trying to claim that World Tour did great, or that Megaton didn't do well, just that WT sold better on consoles than on PC. Which it did, if those numbers are anywhere near correct, and which I think it "should" have considering it would be in a better position there.
Mentioning bundles etc was just an attempt to nuance the Megaton numbers a bit, not dismiss them.

[Sledgehammer]

As The Kins said in the same thread:

 The Kins, on 06 December 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

The accuracy of VGChartz can be described as questionable at best and outright made-up at worst, and SteamSpy's method of acquiring numbers (extrapolating from a small, random set of Steam accounts, ala political polling) is only really accurate enough for console-wars style arguments on the internet. It's not really possible to get 100% accurate sales numbers without signing an NDA, sadly.

You can't know if it did or not, no one can except Gearbox themselves and they won't tell the real number to you or anyone else.