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College tuition prices rising.  "Are you getting sick of high-priced enrollment shit?"

User is offline   Fox 

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#61

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

fucking degenerate.

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

fucking pussies.

It seems these are the only viable options for you.

This post has been edited by Fox: 16 July 2014 - 06:38 PM

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#62

View PostForge, on 16 July 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

at least east and west have something in common, they like to riot when cops beat black guys in L.A. & Toronto


Black people freaking the fuck out is nothing to brag about. At all.


View PostMark., on 16 July 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

The real protest to watch will be if conservatives ever get pushed to the breaking point. It takes a lot to get them active but when they do I think the rush of "activism power" will go to their heads and become quite a show.
( for a while, then they will go back to their jobs, listen to talk radio and wait for the next election )

Thats their problem. They are not activists by nature. They somehow still believe that all they need to do is vote for the right person and then sit back and wait for the results. They need to get as active as the left. The loosly organised Tea Party is about the most activism you'll see from the right. At least they pick up the garbage when they leave an event. :whistling:


It's not going to happen because today's right wing is made up of people who don't actually believe in personal or corporate responsibility. They believe in "that's not my responsibility." You're in the minority. You actually understand shit. The left has the same issue, just not as pronounced.

"Fuck you, I got mine" is basically today's right wing.

View PostForge, on 16 July 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:


you're a pussy, pussy

seriously though, gen X isn't much better than the baby boomers. their generation grew up and now they work as managers at walmart


I think the only reason my generation has a shot at fixing things is due to their attitude. Once they start hitting their mid 20's they drop the whole juvenile attitude towards society that Boomers and Gen X held on to.

Most people who grew up during the Cold War don't care about others outside our own clique, and see how their decisions affect the population at large. Boomers and Gen Xers just buddy up and form their own little cliques, which include their family, friends, and people nearby who think like them. Everyone else is out of the loop. Sure, they might care when wrongs are being committed against others. But as long as it's outside their own little clique, they'll never try to stand up for those people. At most they'll just delegate that responsibility to HR or some government agency who makes shit worse.

That high school way of thinking breeds all of the narcissism, ignorance, ego, and bullshit that is ruining America. Society cannot keep itself in check when there is no sense of community. Like I said before, it's just a watered down version of the mentality that plagues post-communist nations such as Russia and China. It's one big degeneracy factory.

You guys can't bash commies nonstop when so many of you share the same "every man for himself" attitude.

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There is no race, only racists.
Proud trigendered babysexual pan-Korean anarcho-transhumanist
Muslims are peaceful people oppressed by cis white males! Hillary for presidynt!
WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED BY DONALD TRUMP'S VIOLENCE!

This post has been edited by Protected by Viper: 16 July 2014 - 06:58 PM

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User is online   Jimmy 

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#63

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Black people chimping the fuck out is nothing to brag about. At all.

Fixed that for you.
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#64

Dat's rayciss, Jim.

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There is no race, only racists.
Proud trigendered babysexual pan-Korean anarcho-transhumanist
Muslims are peaceful people oppressed by cis white males! Hillary for presidynt!
WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED BY DONALD TRUMP'S VIOLENCE!
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#65

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

Dat's rayciss, Jim.

wat?

black chicks are hot.
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#66

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Most people who grew up during the Cold War don't care about others outside our own clique, and see how their decisions affect the population at large. Boomers and Gen Xers just buddy up and form their own little cliques, which include their family, friends, and people nearby who think like them. Everyone else is out of the loop. Sure, they might care when wrongs are being committed against others. But as long as it's outside their own little clique, they'll never try to stand up for those people. At most they'll just delegate that responsibility to HR or some government agency who makes shit worse.

That high school way of thinking breeds all of the narcissism, ignorance, ego, and bullshit that is ruining America. Society cannot keep itself in check when there is no sense of community. Like I said before, it's just a watered down version of the mentality that plagues post-communist nations such as Russia and China. It's one big degeneracy factory.

You guys can't bash commies nonstop when so many of you share the same "every man for himself" attitude.

That's the breed of mentality you get when you have everyone convinced they're living 2 minutes to midnight.

the government and media are always warping reality to control their masses and create nationalism. It didn't really work since all they get is a bunch of bunker dwelling survivalists once they tire of protesting the bomb, but at least they're scared and controllable.

they're still trying that shit on your generation with, "the terrorists are going to drive a Yugo full of M-80s through your living room wall any minute now."
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#67

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

I think the only reason my generation has a shot at fixing things is due to their attitude.

The only reason your generation had a shot of having a different attitude is because of smart tough boomers and gen-x-ers who kept hammering away at changing the public conversation despite the overwhelming power of the TV and groupthink.

The rate of change in the world perception I've watched grow up around me the past 15 years or so is damn near Science Fiction compared to what it was like before say around 1995 when the internet started to enter people's homes.

Your generation were preteens when I started my version of nudging along all this madness on the internet and with my family/friends (much to their resistance and mockery)... and I'm chump change in this information and perception drama.

I wasn't born yet when many of the genuinely heroic bastards I learned from were writing books on real paper and spreading it friend to friend despite the risks to their actual lives and families and careers.

You get to talk openly about this stuff without it having any real impact on your life.

Fuck the divide in generations. They are all products of their parent's fears and psychopath's lusts and I love them all for what they dealt with in their own pocket of insanity in time.

If you can't remember what it was like before an internet... you don't really have any cognitive structure to sense what it's taken to get the public discussion to this point. The degree of information lag and information isolation engendered an alien existence compared to now.

We're all inheriting a great deal from each generation despite the awfulness wrought by the way they were taken advantage when isolated from each other. We just happen to be around at a time where it's all converging into one big giant planet wide family photograph that nobody can realistically ignore anymore.

The only thing that really makes your generation different from the boomers is the internet and the information people now long dead risked to dig up, archive, spread, etc. via books and person to person word of mouth.

Most of the boomers in my personal life are up to speed with their millennial and gen-x offspring in terms of awareness of the fog they used to live in... except they also have a lot more wisdom and experience that has yet to be fully applied.

We'll see how it all plays out... but one thing I know for sure is that we're at a point where it's ridiculous to to bitch at each other for the way we dealt with truly alien upbringings and environments relative to each other.

This post has been edited by Wieder: 16 July 2014 - 08:12 PM

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#68

View PostWieder, on 16 July 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

The only reason your generation had a shot of having a different attitude is because of smart tough mother fucking boomers and gen-x-ers who kept hammering away at changing the public conversation. Your generation were preteens when I started talking about all this shit on the internet and with my family/friends (much to their resistance and mockery)... and I'm chump change in this drama of information warfare.


That's exactly my point. It's talk. All talk. No action. When is the last time you saw college administrators try to control tuition and speak loudly about doing so? Why are managers in corporations not fighting H1-B visas and poor HR hiring practices? Why are you guys still pulling 60 hour work weeks with shit pay and even worse benefits?

All I ever hear is talk from people older than me. No one tries to fix things on a smaller scale unless they are piss easy to do, and improve your image. It's why I don't have that much empathy for people not being able to retire. You created this culture, you get to reap the "rewards." You wanted 401K's instead of pensions, long hours and bureaucracy instead of autonomy.

Quote

I wasn't born yet when the genuinely heroic bastards *I* learned from where writing books on real paper and spreading it friend to friend despite the risks to their actual lives and families and careers.


That's an overexaggeration. This isn't Soviet Russia and it wasn't like radical books were samizdat.

Quote

You get to talk openly about this stuff without it having any real impact on your life.


As did people fifty years ago.

Quote

Fuck the divide in generations. They are all products of their parent's fears and psychopath's lusts.


Fuck using it to divide people, use it to point out this country's broken culture so we can fix ourselves. Everyone is broken in different ways in America, and it''s by design.

Quote

If you can't even remember what it was like before an internet... you don't really have any neural or cognitive structure to sense what it's taken to get the public discussion to this point.


I was born in 1988. Try me, I used to make mixtapes and rent laserdiscs, and use my imagination and play outside because a Sega Genesis can only display so many colors.

Posted Image
There is no race, only racists.
Proud trigendered babysexual pan-Korean anarcho-transhumanist
Muslims are peaceful people oppressed by cis white males! Hillary for presidynt!
WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED BY DONALD TRUMP'S VIOLENCE!

This post has been edited by Protected by Viper: 16 July 2014 - 08:38 PM

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#69

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

That's exactly my point. It's talk. All talk. No action.

Changing a culture for the better isn't done by shooting assholes or plugging yourself into the very system that ruined the people who came before you.

It's done by talking to people and changing their minds in ways that their day to day choices change... even slightly. You may not recognize it... but I assure you... the bulk of the planet's mind has changed. We're all just trying to figure out what *exactly* to do next with these legacy systems/people without descending into chaos or winding up right back where we started.

The action is done personally and locally... as I accept you have already said you know very well. The way you manage your finances. The way you treat the people around you. The skills you teach yourself. The example you set for the younger generation to follow.

That's how you change a culture... and it finally blooms when the older generations pass on.

"...a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

You can't see the action? Really? You can't see what's coming down the pipe once there are no longer people alive who didn't grow up hearing all this stuff from childhood? As well as a humanity that finally has a massive worldwide public record accessible to everyone to quickly and easily ask "How have all other fiat currencies turned out?"

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

When is the last time you saw college administrators try to control tuition and speak loudly about doing so? Why are managers in corporations not fighting H1-B visas and poor HR hiring practices?

Some are... some aren't. Some of the assholes are boomers, some are xers, some are millennials. Some of the heroes who are changing minds are boomers, some are xers, some are millennials, etc.

What is it you're looking for? The GOVERNMENT to change? The mega corporations? This isn't 1776... these things can be killed without shooting people. They are killed by the 20-40 year generation shift of perception.

What exactly are you wanting to see regarding action? Legislation? Fuck that... that's their game. A revolution? Fuck that... that's their game. Opting out as much as you can is the best action possible... and it's largely silent and invisible. That's why it works.

I see it happening constantly around me. The groundwork of different ways to do almost everything is being built right under our noses by people in all different generations. It's all just waiting for the big decaying tree to fall and finally clear out some space. Which it is doing quite rapidly. Fingers crossed we can keep our cool and not fall for the trick of shooting at everyone during the transition.

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

Why are you guys still pulling 60 hour work weeks with shit pay and even worse benefits?

I'm not. Nobody at my company is. Very few in the industry are unless they are trying to get something up off the ground... or trying to prove themselves. Those complaints are fading... and the places where it is still assumed are either consensual or holdouts that have yet to collapse under their own weight.

The company I am at is pretty much founded with the intent to not do those things and building a smarter model.

That's actual action real people are doing to change things that has real world effects. My part is by choosing them (free market, consensual relationship)... and assisting them in being successful.

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

All I ever hear is talk from people older than me.

All I ever hear is whinging from people younger than me?

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

No one tries to fix things on a smaller scale unless they are piss easy to do, and improve your image.

No one?

Look... if you're waiting for the MASSES to suddenly become self motivated self driven self educated sharp people all on their own, you are delusional and you will continue to be disappointed. If you instead actually deal with the world and people as they are... you see that the mass mind/population will always follow the path of least resistance.

It is always going to come down to smaller pockets of people who open doors... and up until the internet... those doors were very tightly controlled and manipulated. Many of them were literally invisible to even well intentioned people.

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

It's why I don't have that much empathy for people not being able to retire. You created this culture, you get to reap the "rewards." You wanted 401K's instead of pensions, long hours and bureaucracy instead of autonomy.

I don't pay into a 401k, btw. I have no debt and have almost never had any except once with a car that I chose to carry rather than pay off right away just because I thought it would be "good" for my credit. I'm saving directly for my retirement. And as you said... it's not like I'm paid super highly compared to my cohort in other industries. :dukecry: I'm not an anomaly either... you just don't hear about the bulk of us... you're simply parroting the media parody and painting with a broad paintbrush.

That is not what they chose... it is what was foisted upon them in the same way your generation is sitting around getting unhealthier and unhealthier... making video game publishers rich wasting their time playing the same games over and over. Unemployed and living with their parents rather than creating their own jobs.

Oh no... they were misled! Just like your generation is having parasitism foisted on it as a widely adopted career path. Same with the generation before, and before, and before. There is nothing superior in your generation... the only thing that is superior is the information environment we're all immersed in.

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

That's an overexaggeration. This isn't Soviet Russia and it wasn't like radical books were samizdat.

The entire point is the western method of information control proved superior in controlling the public mind (at the time) than the Soviet method. Surely you understand the West and East were comparing notes? Just because a boot isn't stomping on a face doesn't mean the public isn't conditioned from birth to lay down on command and make fun of or fear anyone who doesn't.

20 years ago bringing up the Federal Reserve was a sure way to get ostracized. Yes you could do it... but it wasn't going to win you many friends. And I use that as an example because it's one of the "safest" out of the things we've been dealing with.

View PostWieder, on 16 July 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

You get to talk openly about this stuff without it having any real impact on your life.

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

As did people fifty years ago.

*Some* people. A very small portion of people compared to today... and the environment was far more hostile to considering many of the things that are taken for granted now.

How many people 50 years ago were talking about the Federal Reserve compared to 12 year olds now being *bored* of hearing about them.

View PostProtected by Viper, on 16 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

Fuck using it to divide people, use it to point out this country's broken culture so we can fix ourselves. Everyone is broken in different ways in America, and it''s by design.

I agree... so what are you doing about it that is so special? Protest? That's what the design *wants* you to do. Are you still using dollars? Do you still use a car? Gasoline? Do you have any debt? A plastic card you make purchases with? Grow all your own food? What?

(ran into the limit of quote blocks, heh)
I was born in 1988. Try me, I used to make mixtapes and rent laser discs, and use my imagination and play outside because a Sega Genesis can only display so many colors.

That's like a kid saying to you that just because they were 7 when the iphone first came out... they totally understand what it was like when cell phones were new and rare.

You have never had to try to research something (not talking about school work) where you didn't have a search engine as an option... and a database of information that puts to shame every physical library possible. Your physical brain has never meaningfully had that state of existence as "the only way it is, has been, or ever will be".

That's not a criticism.

I still play outside, am paid to use my imagination, and play a select few games despite there being more colors in them than real life now. :huh: Yet it's still a vividly alien world compared to what it was like before the internet.

I project this backwards as well... it's not like I'm special relative to you on this. I don't know what it's like to be a child growing up fearing being drafted into a war. Even though I have long been aware of the concept and can empathize, I simply don't have the wiring of having actually lived it.

Done editing. :blush:

Hey! Post #69! :whistling:

This post has been edited by Wieder: 16 July 2014 - 11:19 PM

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#70

View PostWieder, on 16 July 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

You have never had to try to research something (not talking about school work) where you didn't have a search engine as an option... and a database of information that puts to shame every physical library possible.

ah, the good old days where the only way to get information from outside of the community was to read a newspaper or tune in to the three available channels on the TV.
i bet the government and media miss having that much canned control

This post has been edited by Forge: 17 July 2014 - 05:20 AM

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#71

Quote

i bet the government and media miss having that much canned control


nah, now it's sooo much easier to get at everybody, they can have half the country hating this group or that within hours. hate is almost as powerful as love.

Wieder man,

Quote

Fingers crossed we can keep our cool and not fall for the trick of shooting at everyone during the transition.

^ That has made me think. How else will the majority handle a 'transition'? Change is a scary thing for most, I need a change. Northward I go hi ho hi ho

( "Just wait..." -Hendricks266 )
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#72

View PostDrek, on 17 July 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

nah, now it's sooo much easier to get at everybody, they can have half the country hating this group or that within hours. hate is almost as powerful as love.

hardly. there's so much information available at your fingertips, it doesn't take too much digging to get real facts that haven't been twisted left or right.


btw, i would have said radio too, but most people on here wouldn't know what the hell i was talking about.
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#73

View PostForge, on 16 July 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

they're still trying that shit on your generation with, "the terrorists are going to drive a Yugo full of M-80s through your living room wall any minute now."

I'm 21. Most of the people I went to high school with can barely remember 9/11. I was only 8 years old. Still remember it. Invasion of Iraq. Toppling of Saddam statues. Capture of Saddam. Invasion of Afghanistan.
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#74

I remember the day it happened. I was in first grade, six years old. My elementary school was a short walk from my house and my brother (older by 14 years) tried to explain it to me as he walked me home after school was out and I had no clue what the "world trade center" or "terrorists"* were. I do remember seeing footage of the buildings and the president's address.

*I don't remember what word they used. It might have been "hijackers". Don't quote me.
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#75

I was 13 when 9/11 happened. It was all over the news. I knew what the WTC were because I liked to know of the tallest buildings in the world.

The funny part is that, despite living in the Third World, the day after the invasion of Afghanistan began everyone here was like "it's all an excuse to steal their oil". On the other hand, US was all like the war was for "freedom", "gender equality", "Jesus" and miscellaneous non-sequiturs.

This post has been edited by Fox: 17 July 2014 - 06:51 PM

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#76

Alright, first off, sorry if I come off as I dick, I think you're a pretty cool person but I was fucking tired when I wrote my last post.

View PostWieder, on 16 July 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Changing a culture for the better isn't done by shooting assholes or plugging yourself into the very system that ruined the people who came before you.

It's done by talking to people and changing their minds in ways that their day to day choices change... even slightly. You may not recognize it... but I assure you... the bulk of the planet's mind has changed. We're all just trying to figure out what *exactly* to do next with these legacy systems/people without descending into chaos or winding up right back where we started.


It's also done by entering those legacy systems and instilling gradual positive change. That wasn't done. At all.

Quote

The action is done personally and locally... as I accept you have already said you know very well. The way you manage your finances. The way you treat the people around you. The skills you teach yourself. The example you set for the younger generation to follow.

That's how you change a culture... and it finally blooms when the older generations pass on.

"...a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."


No one has to die. The 60's changed everything for worse and the WWII vets were alive and at full influence.

Quote

You can't see the action? Really? You can't see what's coming down the pipe once there are no longer people alive who didn't grow up hearing all this stuff from childhood? As well as a humanity that finally has a massive worldwide public record accessible to everyone to quickly and easily ask "How have all other fiat currencies turned out?"


They've turned out terrible, as have all currencies over time, Fiat or not. Human beings aren't exactly great at ultra long term planning.

Quote

Some are... some aren't. Some of the assholes are boomers, some are xers, some are millennials. Some of the heroes who are changing minds are boomers, some are xers, some are millennials, etc.

What is it you're looking for? The GOVERNMENT to change? The mega corporations? This isn't 1776... these things can be killed without shooting people. They are killed by the 20-40 year generation shift of perception.


They are changed by influencing the systems to begin with. Actions are louder than words. One of the key problems with our culture is that nearly all corporations have a shitty attitude towards their workers. No one has any money. People become crazy and desperate. Culture becomes degeneracy. A strong middle class is priority number one.

Gen X was entering the workforce during the largest economic expansion since WWII, they could have changed things and set the rules but they sold out accepted crappy pay and long hours. Now two decades later we're the ones making demands and refusing shitty jobs during the largest recession ever because we don't believe in selling ourselves out unless it's a matter of survival or being homeless. Corporations have had to change management methods and working conditions to attract us. Gen X jacked off in their cubicles when they were stressed out, selling out to greedy bosses won't really give you many other options.

Likewise, saying "fuck the system" and eschewing any and all aspects of it is exactly what they want as well. They don't want you in it when shit goes tits up - they want full and total control. No positive influence will lead to another version of what we had to begin with. You're playing into their hand.

Quote

What exactly are you wanting to see regarding action? Legislation? Fuck that... that's their game. A revolution? Fuck that... that's their game. Opting out as much as you can is the best action possible... and it's largely silent and invisible. That's why it works.


No, you're supposed to do both. You don't just ignore the system and say "fuck it," you actively tear it down from within and redesign it.

Quote

I see it happening constantly around me. The groundwork of different ways to do almost everything is being built right under our noses by people in all different generations. It's all just waiting for the big decaying tree to fall and finally clear out some space. Which it is doing quite rapidly. Fingers crossed we can keep our cool and not fall for the trick of shooting at everyone during the transition.


Israel exists. They'll be the first to fuck anything up.

Quote

I'm not. Nobody at my company is. Very few in the industry are unless they are trying to get something up off the ground... or trying to prove themselves. Those complaints are fading... and the places where it is still assumed are either consensual or holdouts that have yet to collapse under their own weight.

The company I am at is pretty much founded with the intent to not do those things and building a smarter model.


Most aren't. Most companies fuck over everyone low on the totem pole then wonder why their customer service and product sucks, then remain clueless as to why they're circling the drain.

Quote

That's actual action real people are doing to change things that has real world effects. My part is by choosing them (free market, consensual relationship)... and assisting them in being successful.


I'm all for that.

Quote

All I ever hear is whinging from people younger than me?


No one whines more than Boomers and teenagers, but they are one and the same thing. We both know that. Most of them aren't calm and collected when talking politics, like Mark or my father.

Posted Image
There is no race, only racists.
Proud trigendered babysexual pan-Korean anarcho-transhumanist
Muslims are peaceful people oppressed by cis white males! Hillary for presidynt!
WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED BY DONALD TRUMP'S VIOLENCE!

This post has been edited by Protected by Viper: 18 July 2014 - 08:27 AM

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#77

Quote

Look... if you're waiting for the MASSES to suddenly become self motivated self driven self educated sharp people all on their own, you are delusional and you will continue to be disappointed. If you instead actually deal with the world and people as they are... you see that the mass mind/population will always follow the path of least resistance.


No, we're actually agreeing on this. But people who know better shouldn't sell themselves out.

Quote

It is always going to come down to smaller pockets of people who open doors... and up until the internet... those doors were very tightly controlled and manipulated. Many of them were literally invisible to even well intentioned people.


That's one of the many reasons why the powers that be want net neutrality dead. I recently did my part and switched to Cablevision for my Internet and phone, they're getting $130/month they can use to fight for net neutrality. Even if Verizon was the greatest thing ever their ethics would have earned a stern middle finger. Waaay more effective than chewing out congressman nonstop, but I do that too.

Quote

I don't pay into a 401k, btw. I have no debt and have almost never had any except once with a car that I chose to carry rather than pay off right away just because I thought it would be "good" for my credit. I'm saving directly for my retirement. And as you said... it's not like I'm paid super highly compared to my cohort in other industries. :whistling: I'm not an anomaly either... you just don't hear about the bulk of us... you're simply parroting the media parody and painting with a broad paintbrush.


I'm not parroting the media on this. My point wasn't that too many people use a 401k. It was that we had stable pension systems and safeguards that have been destroyed in this country while good people sat back, did nothing, and took their paycheck. My grandparents fought for this shit and it's like everyone got selfish and forgot about it for thirty years. Thanks, postmodernism!

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That is not what they chose... it is what was foisted upon them in the same way your generation is sitting around getting unhealthier and unhealthier... making video game publishers rich wasting their time playing the same games over and over. Unemployed and living with their parents rather than creating their own jobs.


It's hard to create jobs when no one has any money. When things are foisted upon you, you can still fight them maybe 10-30%. That's where change comes from - pushing back. Not just eschewing the system and saying "fuck it." When you do that, they still hold all the cards. They will still control the day of reckoning.

People have far more control over their destiny than you think. Rejecting abusive working conditions should be job #1 for killing off greed. My point is that too many Gen X'ers started shilling and just accelerated this problem. "I want this, but the system won't let me have it, and it'll never happen, so I'll just deal with it." I have personally heard this kind out outlook so many times over the years, even from a high school teacher. It makes my head spin.

Fuck hardcore cynicism. If someone can't organize at a low level, that's their fault.

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Oh no... they were misled! Just like your generation is having parasitism foisted on it as a widely adopted career path. Same with the generation before, and before, and before. There is nothing superior in your generation... the only thing that is superior is the information environment we're all immersed in.


There's an entirely different worldview. That's completely false. Thought evolves over time, you might not share the postmodernist worldview that ruined your cohorts chances at seeing the light, but too many older people do.

Here's the bottom line: Hand my generation everything, and they'll fuck it up overnight. People in their 20's suck less than teenagers, but they still suck. Saving America right now depends on older people to wake up and take a serious look at themselves, their culture, and their attitude. The people who caused this disaster don't know how to save it, but they have the organizational skills needed to make it succeed.

Too bad the best realistically hope for is naval gazing.

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The entire point is the western method of information control proved superior in controlling the public mind (at the time) than the Soviet method. Surely you understand the West and East were comparing notes? Just because a boot isn't stomping on a face doesn't mean the public isn't conditioned from birth to lay down on command and make fun of or fear anyone who doesn't.


Huxley was right, Orwell just needed to fill in his gaps.

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20 years ago bringing up the Federal Reserve was a sure way to get ostracized. Yes you could do it... but it wasn't going to win you many friends. And I use that as an example because it's one of the "safest" out of the things we've been dealing with.

*Some* people. A very small portion of people compared to today... and the environment was far more hostile to considering many of the things that are taken for granted now.

How many people 50 years ago were talking about the Federal Reserve compared to 12 year olds now being *bored* of hearing about them.


It was a big deal, but it's not like people were getting round up and shot. Your friends would still talk to you if you brought it up.

Controversial opinion become palatable over time, this is nothing new.

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I agree... so what are you doing about it that is so special? Protest? That's what the design *wants* you to do. Are you still using dollars? Do you still use a car? Gasoline? Do you have any debt? A plastic card you make purchases with? Grow all your own food? What?


I've walked out on employers that were abusive or unethical, to both me and their customers. I stand up for myself at all times. Fuck anyone who wants to crush or mold who I am. I do all my banking through a locally Credit Union. I have a credit card with Capital One but I rarely use it. I do have debt from for profit institutions, but only because of car damage due to a huge ass pothole. Speaking of my car, it's American, and with the exception of the suspension, I try to put American replacement parts on it. I grow some of my own food.

If you reject the system completely, it won't change for the better when shit happens. They have the power, they will create a new one, and they'll have obedient cogs instead of organized workers. It will evolve and morph into something worse because you didn't have your fingers in the right places. Your dick feels pretty good in your hand, but gradually fingering the filthy asshole of the powers that be is the real solution. Eventually, you can fist it, and watch them scream in pain.

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That's like a kid saying to you that just because they were 7 when the iphone first came out... they totally understand what it was like when cell phones were new and rare.

You have never had to try to research something (not talking about school work) where you didn't have a search engine as an option... and a database of information that puts to shame every physical library possible. Your physical brain has never meaningfully had that state of existence as "the only way it is, has been, or ever will be".

That's not a criticism.

I still play outside, am paid to use my imagination, and play a select few games despite there being more colors in them than real life now. :dukecry: Yet it's still a vividly alien world compared to what it was like before the internet.


Dude I would hang out in libraries as a kid to research and learn stuff. I would take out books constantly and they were always nonfiction and oftentimes they were straight up written for adults. I tested off every reading exam I was put on. I could read better than fifth graders when I was in second grade. I was the first person in my high school to finish the standardized reading test they used (You went as far as possible until you couldn't comprehend or pronounce things).

I had to call people using a land line and have someone hand off the phone. Things had to be planned in advance because there were no cell phones. Only wealthy people had them.

I would buy strategy guides for video games because dial up sucked, and as a result, content on The Internet sucked.

I remember the pre Internet age really well, much moreso than other people around me. I actually used to old research tools...a lot. Mainly for recreation.

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I project this backwards as well... it's not like I'm special relative to you on this. I don't know what it's like to be a child growing up fearing being drafted into a war. Even though I have long been aware of the concept and can empathize, I simply don't have the wiring of having actually lived it.


My great uncle dodged the draft. He was friends with a doctor. I never got to speak with him about it because he died of AIDS shortly after I was born, but I've heard stories.

Honestly, I don't think that constant bombardment of omnipresent fear did them well in the long run.

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This post has been edited by Protected by Viper: 18 July 2014 - 08:37 AM

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#78

View PostJimmy, on 17 July 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

I'm 21. Most of the people I went to high school with can barely remember 9/11. I was only 8 years old. Still remember it. Invasion of Iraq. Toppling of Saddam statues. Capture of Saddam. Invasion of Afghanistan.



View PostHendricks266, on 17 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

I remember the day it happened. I was in first grade, six years old. My elementary school was a short walk from my house and my brother (older by 14 years) tried to explain it to me as he walked me home after school was out and I had no clue what the "world trade center" or "terrorists"* were. I do remember seeing footage of the buildings and the president's address.

*I don't remember what word they used. It might have been "hijackers". Don't quote me.


Jesus Christ, I feel old. I was a month shy of 14 when it happened and I could see everything that was going on. I saw why the Bush administration abandoned any and all diplomacy so quickly in the days following, and years later I was vocally against Iraq for more reasons than most adult liberals. I knew immediately they were trying to drag out these wars for profit and control via fear.

I was a smart kid. Being that aware during all this shit really changed my outlook forever. I'm definitely more cynical than others my age. Today's teenagers and kids have never known peace, we've always been at war and it really makes me wonder how that will effect their outlook in the long term.

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#79

View PostProtected by Viper, on 18 July 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Gen X was entering the workforce during the largest economic expansion since WWII, they could have changed things and set the rules but they sold out accepted crappy pay and long hours. Now two decades later we're the ones making demands and refusing shitty jobs during the largest recession ever because we don't believe in selling ourselves out unless it's a matter of survival or being homeless. Corporations have had to change management methods and working conditions to attract us. Gen X jacked off in their cubicles when they were stressed out, selling out to greedy bosses won't really give you many other options.

People have far more control over their destiny than you think. Rejecting abusive working conditions should be job #1 for killing off greed. My point is that too many Gen X'ers started shilling and just accelerated this problem. "I want this, but the system won't let me have it, and it'll never happen, so I'll just deal with it."

Fuck hardcore cynicism. If someone can't organize at a low level, that's their fault.

you kind of left out the deindustrialization of the united states during those two decades. Gen-Xers were like, "fuck your shitty pay with shitty hours and shitty treatment of employees", so the boomers were like, "fine we''ll just move our production to China where they'll work for whatever we give them".
Now everything is outsourced and the Gen-Xers have to take what they can get.

Today the wages in China have finally reached a point where it's more feasible and economically sound to move manufacturing plants back to the U.S. Employers are more willing to make the job market more attractive and lucrative than what we had to deal with.
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#80

View PostProtected by Viper, on 18 July 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Alright, first off, sorry if I come off as I dick...

I thought nothing of the sort. Despite being gen-x... when it comes to a pounding of heads I'm not a pussy. :whistling:

The conundrum we all face is that there are people who want nothing more than for us to engage in fighting them for the rest of our lives. Which is exactly what happens when we engage on their terms using their rules. If we all stop "living our life" then we've abandoned the very thing we're supposedly "fighting" for and teach the next generation only how to fight.

The most crushing thing for a bully is to be rendered irrelevant... not being beaten. Being beaten is just an excuse to get smarter, faster, stronger... but with more venom next time around.

Will reply more thoroughly later!

This post has been edited by Wieder: 18 July 2014 - 01:48 PM

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View PostFox, on 17 July 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

On the other hand, US was all like the war was for "freedom", "gender equality", "Jesus" and miscellaneous non-sequiturs.

It may have looked like that from the outside, but it was far from cohesive on the inside. However the military is built to act and so it can be deployed and engaging "in our name" before the civilian population has a legitimate chance to say "But..."

Keep in mind that the idiot crew of the US is blasted on TV across the world, whereas most of the rest of the world's idiot crews aren't seen by anyone but local regions. It gives an illusion that the US is full of more stupid people than most places but it's not true. Our stupidity as a "nation" is broadcast out in the open. "3rd world" stupidity as nations (such as taking on IMF/BIS loans) is more or less only covered in books like Confessions of an Economic Hitman.

Our leadership propagandizes to you about our stupidity specifically to create a division and dislike for "Americans" rather than the larger global system that has Americans and Brazilians and Saudi Arabians and South Koreans and Japanese and Russians and Germans and British all by the throat and the balls.

How do you feel about BRICS?

This post has been edited by Wieder: 18 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

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#82

View PostDrek, on 17 July 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

^ That has made me think. How else will the majority handle a 'transition'? Change is a scary thing for most, I need a change. Northward I go hi ho hi ho

Depends entirely on whether there is a figure that can be put on TV to keep the hypnotized in a trance through it or not. :dukecry:

This is actually something that we libertarians and liberty of the self minded folks are having a hard time dealing with. There are large quantities of people on the planet who are barely above the "pet" level of consciousness. We can wish those people would suddenly not only care about the history of liberty but also understand it... but that's not going to happen without experiencing the consequences of totalitarianism themselves.

Were "TPTB" to suddenly disengage and return to their Social Memory Complex :whistling: en-masse... we'd be left with a group of people who need a new master.

That's ugly and messy but true (from my vantage). It doesn't mean they are not fully capable... but they both haven't been stimulated to do so... and have no experience/education to even really consider the concept.

Then we have the people who are beyond the pet level of consciousness... but simply prefer to follow. Period end of story no ifs ands or buts about it. In the early days of a republic... these are the ones who mimic the "Big Ones" of liberty simply because they are the ones setting the cultural tone and their entire mode of existence is to mimic whoever appears to be in charge. They don't wait to be told what to do necessarily, but they take their cues from the leadership.

It's a pretty messy situation and is what gives me a small degree of empathy for "TPTB" and their ranch system.

This post has been edited by Wieder: 18 July 2014 - 02:21 PM

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#83

View PostWieder, on 18 July 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

It may have looked like that from the outside, but it was far from cohesive on the inside. However the military is built to act and so it can be deployed and engaging "in our name" before the civilian population has a legitimate chance to say "But..."

Keep in mind that the idiot crew of the US is blasted on TV across the world, whereas most of the rest of the world's idiot crews aren't seen by anyone but local regions. It gives an illusion that the US is full of more stupid people than most places but it's not true. Our stupidity as a "nation" is broadcast out in the open. "3rd world" stupidity as nations (such as taking on IMF/BIS loans) is more or less only covered in books like Confessions of an Economic Hitman.

Our leadership propagandizes to you about our stupidity specifically to create a division and dislike for "Americans" rather than the larger global system that has Americans and Brazilians and Saudi Arabians and South Koreans and Japanese and Russians and Germans and British all by the throat and the balls.

Thank you for clearing that up.

View PostWieder, on 18 July 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

How do you feel about BRICS?

It feels like "emerging economy" is the new euphemism for undeveloped. But I am aware of how well is has been marketed.
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#84

A lot of people need to die.
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#85

Global destabilization is well on it's way. The holy land is at it again, FBI is sending men to the border of Russia. Patience Jimmy.

About BRICS. How do they feel about the FIve Eyes? IMO it seems like sides are showing through the illusions.

( "Just wait..." -Hendricks266 )
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#86

I don't think we'll be lucky enough to see actual societal breakdown though.
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#87

I can't believe it's still holding together today. That is the proof to what Charlie is saying about the followers mindset. People are still very comfortable with the status quo, except maybe parts of Detroit. Water brigade is a good thing, I've had to go behind a service man and turn my own water on before :whistling: they put a locking nut on it the next month.

( "Just wait..." -Hendricks266 )
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#88

View PostForge, on 18 July 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

you kind of left out the deindustrialization of the united states during those two decades. Gen-Xers were like, "fuck your shitty pay with shitty hours and shitty treatment of employees", so the boomers were like, "fine we''ll just move our production to China where they'll work for whatever we give them".
Now everything is outsourced and the Gen-Xers have to take what they can get.

Today the wages in China have finally reached a point where it's more feasible and economically sound to move manufacturing plants back to the U.S. Employers are more willing to make the job market more attractive and lucrative than what we had to deal with.


Everything else is still fucked about the American workforce, and it was obvious it started fucking itself 30 years ago.

NAFTA raped us, but it's not like anyone held themselves to higher standards at the time. We aren't reaping the benefits now.

View PostWieder, on 18 July 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

I thought nothing of the sort. Despite being gen-x... when it comes to a pounding of heads I'm not a pussy. :whistling:

The conundrum we all face is that there are people who want nothing more than for us to engage in fighting them for the rest of our lives. Which is exactly what happens when we engage on their terms using their rules. If we all stop "living our life" then we've abandoned the very thing we're supposedly "fighting" for and teach the next generation only how to fight.

The most crushing thing for a bully is to be rendered irrelevant... not being beaten. Being beaten is just an excuse to get smarter, faster, stronger... but with more venom next time around.

Will reply more thoroughly later!


Sociopaths only care about power, but they can never hold absolute power. They will try, but they can't pull it off. Removing yourself from the system entirely is empowering them. When someone as smart as you leaves, someone less intelligent and assertive will probably take your place.

Not every component of their system is inherently bad, what can be salvaged should always be taken for the people. Never give up resources for the sake of idealism.

Most of us aren't smart enough to pull off this level of self sufficiency. 90% of people are sheep, the remainder are like you and me. We need to lead the sheep, be it in the workforce, on the streets, or even in government at all levels.

This country needs a populist revolution, be it violent or not, and excessive self sufficiency is the opposite of that. Self sufficiency is totally different than personal responsibility. You can never have too much of the latter, but too much of the former causes a different sort of breakdown. People eschewing everything will always be in the minority, and the influence they could have provided will be squandered and gone forever.

View PostWieder, on 18 July 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

It may have looked like that from the outside, but it was far from cohesive on the inside. However the military is built to act and so it can be deployed and engaging "in our name" before the civilian population has a legitimate chance to say "But..."

Keep in mind that the idiot crew of the US is blasted on TV across the world, whereas most of the rest of the world's idiot crews aren't seen by anyone but local regions. It gives an illusion that the US is full of more stupid people than most places but it's not true. Our stupidity as a "nation" is broadcast out in the open. "3rd world" stupidity as nations (such as taking on IMF/BIS loans) is more or less only covered in books like Confessions of an Economic Hitman.

Our leadership propagandizes to you about our stupidity specifically to create a division and dislike for "Americans" rather than the larger global system that has Americans and Brazilians and Saudi Arabians and South Koreans and Japanese and Russians and Germans and British all by the throat and the balls.

How do you feel about BRICS?


Quote of the fucking year.

View PostWieder, on 18 July 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

Depends entirely on whether there is a figure that can be put on TV to keep the hypnotized in a trance through it or not. :dukecry:

This is actually something that we libertarians and liberty of the self minded folks are having a hard time dealing with. There are large quantities of people on the planet who are barely above the "pet" level of consciousness. We can wish those people would suddenly not only care about the history of liberty but also understand it... but that's not going to happen without experiencing the consequences of totalitarianism themselves.


People don't care because they aren't motivated or informed.

If you create compelling content that encourages them to care, and see something as fucked up, they'll get pissed. The populace isn't apathetic, our media keeps people in the dark by design.

Great example, NSA surveillance.

"Cause: The War on Terror. Solution: Mass surveillance. Effect: Sorry but we're impartial. We report, you decide™!"

Media outlets always remove motivational elements from their stories. See, if we had compelling journalists on the air, or even on YouTube, this shit would be over by 2020. Sheep are sheep, dude. You can do whatever you want with them, or mold them into whatever you want. Give an idiot ethics, good culture, and a solid moral code and he'll fight on your side for life. Average Joes aren't stupid, useless, or parasitic, they just need to be given a few extra pushes. They need help getting off the floor.

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This post has been edited by Protected by Viper: 18 July 2014 - 09:02 PM

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#89

View PostProtected by Viper, on 18 July 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

We need to...

Mmmm! Now there's an interesting concept. "Need".

I'm curious why you believe I or anyone else on the planet "needs" to do anything at all?

Do we need to eat?
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#90

I need to Shit

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