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Done

User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#1

Haven't even left the base/tutorial area, I have spent a long time exploring and interacting. Firstly, the gameplay depth: as my name would imply, I am gameplay mad. AMC TC is looking to be very promising in this regard: Increased interactivity, increased manoeuvrability/control over your player character & greater tactical options, upgrading of sorts, reading books and such, all one can ask for really. But it's not just the gameplay, the music so far is perfect, visuals are nice, more developed narrative so far than vanilla Duke, additional cool sprite-based animations, new footstep sounds and so on. Installation process, well there isn't one and the TC is standalone.
All very promising, I'll be posting feedback as I play. My only negative criticism so far is the voice acting, something I don't particularly care about but it's still a valid complaint. Oh and the base guards are entirely non-interactive but as a modding team there is only so much that can be done.
Why so few downloads and attention for this mod? Meh, I'm in the same boat; mess with a loved formula and people are sceptical, but I personally am very optimistic about this mod, great design!

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 11 May 2014 - 05:05 PM

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User is offline   Jblade 

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#2

Thanks, glad to hear you're enjoying it so far :P I would of liked conversations with the soldiers around the base, but as always time is an issue.
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User is online   Micky C 

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#3

View PostGameplay Nut, on 08 May 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

Why so few downloads and attention for this mod? Meh, I'm in the same boat; mess with a loved formula and people are sceptical, but I personally am very optimistic about this mod, great design!


IMO the mod isn't advertised very well. There was no release trailer, no consistent playthrough on youtube, and the photos on moddb are really bland with nothing going on (literally not a single enemy, just random locations, and not even good ones, don't know what James was smoking). Plus there wasn't any real buildup; one christmas it was like "oh and here's the TC guys" :P

Compare this with WGR2 (as arguably the closest current TC in terms of scope and scale), It had new trailers for major updates, a nice complete playthough of all the levels on youtube, and kick-ass photos on moddb with awesome locations/scenery and action.

Edit: Oh and don't forget the download counter is reset every time the download on moddb was updated to the latest version, so there's a lot of people who may have had an earlier version and not bothered updating to the latest version, as there were numerous updates following the initial release.

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

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This post has been edited by Mickey C: 09 May 2014 - 02:47 AM

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User is offline   Jblade 

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#4

I can see your point, but I'm pretty much against those things and I much prefer the approach of next to zero hype and then releases rather than trying to be big or extravagant about it. It's one of the annoying things I feel about mod development that sucks away one of the main advantages we have against professional game development.
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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#5

View PostJames, on 09 May 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

I can see your point, but I'm pretty much against those things and I much prefer the approach of next to zero hype and then releases rather than trying to be big or extravagant about it. It's one of the annoying things I feel about mod development that sucks away one of the main advantages we have against professional game development.


But if you don't market it it how are people going to hear about it other than relying on word of mouth of players? I dislike marketing too (and suck at it) but relying completely on word of mouth is unreliable I've found, no matter how good your work is. That said, if it's as good as I hope it to be I WILL spread the word, because I am passionate about good works getting the recognition they deserve, and trash like Flappy Bird should be burned at the stake.

View PostJames, on 09 May 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Thanks, glad to hear you're enjoying it so far :P I would of liked conversations with the soldiers around the base, but as always time is an issue.


At least reactions to being punched in the face ;)

Edit: Beware of the somewhat relevant plug!. Here is one of my marketing attempts. As far as I am concerned I have perfected Deus Ex's RPG elements (Augs, skills, weapon modding system etc) yet this video, the most visually appealing and reading-lite unlike my other vids, has 50 fucking views. Sigh. The mod does so much more than that though, including a focus on making weapons not feel like crap, but alas my mod remains unplayed by the majority despite it's mostly positive feedback. Moral of the story is market your work (and don't be shit at it like me) if you want more than a small handful to play, 'cause otherwise nobody gives a shit. But I'm not sure you even care, and you probably already know this. But that Duke nukem Forever mod had a widespread reach, though that was mostly because of it's message behind it; Fuck you gearbox!
Saying that, my mod has a message behind it too. The name is "Give Me Deus Ex", named after Human Revolution's difficulty mode of the same name, which didn't make any extra effort to give me DX, it still had regen health, takedowns, binary choice level design etc...but at least the game was alright, unlike D:NF which is a fucking disgrace.

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 09 May 2014 - 05:31 AM

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User is offline   Jblade 

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#6

I've heard of GMDX actually! I'm a big fan of Deus Ex mods :P I can appreciate the message about marketing, but I just don't have a big ego about my stuff and I just hate marketing/advertising in general. I think the DNF is an exception simply because of the controversy about the actual DNF and the legendary status of the original 2001 trailer. I don't expect AMC to ever reach that level of saturation but the few people who played it really enjoyed it with only the voice acting/story being a complaint (EP2 has more of both! but it's skippable where possible and voices can always be deactivated)
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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#7

View PostJames, on 09 May 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

but I just don't have a big ego about my stuff


Oh I do, my ego level on this forum is entirely inaccurate :P In all seriousness I just want a decent amount of feedback, the current amount is not adequate to know whether I succeeded in advancing Deus Ex's design like I think I have.

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and I just hate marketing/advertising in general.


Me too, but it's a necessary evil....

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I think the DNF is an exception simply because of the controversy about the actual DNF


Yes, the makers played off of the controversy well.

Anyway, time to kick some alien ass. Into your virtual world I delve...
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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#8

Ok, just beat DIS base. I feel like I am playing some strange mash up of childhood shooters, we've got assets from Doom, Nukem: Total Meltdown,Quake, Resident Evil, Half-Life...Brutal Doom? it's not a big deal it's just the overwhelming familiarity, you went a bit too far with the asset pilfering I think. However, it has the gameplay depth I crave so I am perfectly happy, though the level of interactivity has dwindled some in comparison to the start. Still, I'm having a blast and it's overall a great mod.

Now some specifics:

-Pickup messages for common objects would be nice
-Fall damage, or rather the conditions for it is a bit extreme.
-When running out of ammo you switch to fists rather than pistol/previous weapon, quite problematic.
-Alt fire is a bit under-utilized I think.

Bugs:

-Sniper rifle has some odd issues, I'm sure you are aware.
-the slow-mo effect plays when destroying corpses.
-When escaping the DIS base if you jump down rather than going down the lift the door to the temple isn't triggered, at least it wasn't for me.
-The projectile spawn offset of the plasma rifle-like gun is unrealistic, appears to spawn from the player.

Positive notes:

-Lots of guns
-Visual changes when upgrading is nice.
-Pretty good level design
-Overall gameplay depth.
-The voice acting may be...but the writing in documents etc is pretty good.
-Kick moves are good, though a jumping kick for 2x damage like Brutal Doom would have been awesome.

First impressions had me enamoured, but this was shallow of me. Like I said I am still perfectly happy, appreciative, and it's an excellent mod, but I thought I was in for something amazing. But that's not fair because it is amazing, but the horde of assets I am familiar with reduces it's appeal just a touch.

Side note: I found the rolling combined with the sprint key a problem at first, and the rolling had me wish you'd gone for a dodge manoeuvre instead because the camera effect made it easy to lose your bearings, but I found an option that lets you disable camera interpolation or some such and it basically turns it into a dodge move, so that is excellent. Anyway, readers should not let the negatives said above dissuade you from playing, this mod is excellent so far and if it continues to be good then I'll be recommending it where appropriate.

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 09 May 2014 - 01:17 PM

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User is offline   Jblade 

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#9

Thanks for your impressions, I'm sorry it's not lived up to your expectations. I don't agree with the resource pilfering comment at least from those games because only a couple of sounds were taken from those games (Also I don't recall anything from Brutal Doom in there, AMC TC predates that by a few years) The nature of the beast is that the TC wouldn't of happened without the artwork, which is part of why I don't talk about the mod much. It's put people off and I'm not going to convince them otherwise (and I don't want to argue because many others TCs before have done it) At the very least I've used free to use music in the next episode where possible (from Opengameart )

You can change weapon switch when out of ammo in the player menu in options. Fall damage and things like that are untouched from Duke Nukem 3D, I kept it that way so usermaps are still playable.
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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#10

View PostJames, on 09 May 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Thanks for your impressions, I'm sorry it's not lived up to your expectations.


No, it has, it's good fun.

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I don't agree with the resource pilfering comment at least from those games because only a couple of sounds were taken from those games (Also I don't recall anything from Brutal Doom in there, AMC TC predates that by a few years) The nature of the beast is that the TC wouldn't of happened without the artwork, which is part of why I don't talk about the mod much. It's put people off and I'm not going to convince them otherwise (and I don't want to argue because many others TCs before have done it) At the very least I've used free to use music in the next episode where possible (from Opengameart )


Don't get me wrong, I fully understand. It's a game itself you've created, likely with no money involved, it's just for me personally having played all those games it's just nagging, but it in no way effects AMC's status/respect I have for the work you put into it. Apologies for being incorrect about Brutal doom also.
I very much appreciate that you put this mod together so well and have uploaded it for the masses to play. I <3 mods, especially those with good design and a strong focus on gameplay.

Quote

You can change weapon switch when out of ammo in the player menu in options. Fall damage and things like that are untouched from Duke Nukem 3D, I kept it that way so usermaps are still playable.


Oh, my mistake. Still, you should consider having that switch to pistol by default.

Thanks again, more feedback as I progress :P
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User is offline   Jblade 

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#11

Cool - it's worth noting that the development of the mod has always been pretty haphazard, although the final result is the best work I've ever done to me. It started as a joke-TC which was a homage to all of the build games starring AMC veterans (back in the day it was one of the main Duke sites to non-americans) Levels like Dis Base were designed as a homage to Doom, later ones to Blood, but as development continued it span off into it's own beast. The basic idea, that it incorporated the Build games and many popular Duke mods as a sort of backstory, always remained though. Think of it like the Justice League or the Avengers, basically (a bunch of all-star heroes team up)

Also looking back, the prequel to this, my older mod called Imagination World, used 3D models (old Quake 2 player models for enemies and a smattering of free to use gun models) and I tried to avoid using ripped content where possible (although the presence of Counter-strike CZ civilians negatves this alot) I started AMC TC as ultimately I found working with models and high-res textures pretty suffocating, as I could edit sprites much easier and it allowed me to focus on gameplay more than trying to make a model-heavy mod work alright.

The very original idea only loosely remains in the TC, and is elaborated a bit in the descriptions of guns and character info; Episode 2 is much more focused though - it kicks off with a map vs Duke enemies like Megabase did, then basically a whole set of levels set in China heavily styled after Shadow Warrior (both the original and the new one) but then it spirals off into it's own style later on (although Loke has made a very cool Blood-style map set with a more SW-tech style one afterwards and Zaxtor is working on a map as well - Micky's level is a beast unto it's own and will be really amazing) culmunating in an big adventure set somewhere many people were looking forward to but didn't get to explore in Episode 1 :P


This post has been edited by James: 09 May 2014 - 01:55 PM

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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

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#12

In a perfect world there would be 8-bit artists lining up to make new sprites for our TCs, but the reality is that if we want our games to have a lot of non-Duke art, we have to steal most of it or be wealthy enough to pay for it. When WGR2 was in development we were lucky to have Cage jump in and make a ton of awesome new sprites for us, but even then most of the sprites we used were ripped.
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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#13

View PostTrooper Dan, on 09 May 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

In a perfect world there would be 8-bit artists lining up to make new sprites for our TCs, but the reality is that if we want our games to have a lot of non-Duke art, we have to steal most of it or be wealthy enough to pay for it. When WGR2 was in development we were lucky to have Cage jump in and make a ton of awesome new sprites for us, but even then most of the sprites we used were ripped.


The art doesn't bother me in the slightest. The SFX do a little bit, they take me out of the game some because I'm constantly being assaulted by distinctive nostalgic SFX. "Hmm, what sound is that from? Oh, Resident Evil!". What bothers me the most, however, is the music. I adore game music. AMC features the PS1 soundtracks of Doom and Nukem 3D for the first three missions so far, and I absolutely love those soundtracks, especially Nukem's, that I have done them to death. They fit the maps perfectly but again it's nagging.
I love discovering new game soundtracks, in fact TC's and indie games are the only works still made today that I can look to reliably for a decent, fresh & exciting soundtrack in a game.
I didn't recognise the base music or the training music however, so I expect to come across more good tracks I've never heard before. Anyway now I know the mod was originally intended to parody build games some of the nagging can stop I guess, and I haven't played many build games anyway so there will be some stuff new to me :P And again, these are ultimately minor, personal subjective complaints, and the reasoning for pilfering is entirely understandable and the mod is awesome. I am going to jump right back in. Gameplay trumps all anyway, and AMC TC is very satisfying in that regard.

And again, no matter how much I complain I do very much appreciate the mod.

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 09 May 2014 - 02:36 PM

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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#14

I dislike that my weapons keep getting robbed. fair enough when switching characters, but it's disappointing that they are robbed between levels featuring the same character.
Enjoyed the platforming madness of the abyss.
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User is online   Micky C 

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#15

I can see where you're getting at; realistically you wouldn't throw away your weapons before being into a combat situation. From a gameplay perspective however it's much easier to manage progression and balance things, especially when you're going up against different enemy types in different levels. Within the universe a decent amount of time has passed between levels 1 and 2 (you're travelling by ship through the solar system), and of course when you go to "hell' in level 3 it's something along the lines of earth weapons aren't allowed and are stripped away or whatever.

Having said that though, I'm under the impression that the China segment of episode 2 will be a fairly continuous stream of levels played as a single unit where you keep your weapons through the majority of it. Don't quote me on that though as everything's in a state of flux at the moment.

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!

This post has been edited by Mickey C: 09 May 2014 - 06:35 PM

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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#16

View PostMickey C, on 09 May 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

I can see where you're getting at; realistically you wouldn't throw away your weapons before being into a combat situation. From a gameplay perspective however it's much easier to manage progression and balance things, especially when you're going up against different enemy types in different levels.


Indeed it is, indeed it's lazy design :P No offence.
It's not the realism side that annoys me so much, it's the gameplay side. Continuous ammo and inventory conservation is not something the player has to consider, and of course some variety in how to approach any given situation is robbed from the player. Definitely a major downside of the mod.
Why is there an inventory screen in the PDA when everything just gets pilfered from you ;). At least temp items etc are stored at the base, and weapon upgrades & credits are permanent though.

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 09 May 2014 - 06:53 PM

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User is online   Micky C 

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#17

Well, what I said was only speculation, I wasn't there during the construction of episode 1. Also take into account that the maps of episode 1 were made by many different people, which is part of my reasoning for suggesting the difficulty factor of making it consistent. Another guess is that since each level is so thematically different, that the authors may have intentionally wanted each map to be self-contained, or it could be a combination of factors. Once again this is just speculation.

Part of the TC's charm is that it's sort of Deus Ex and Duke 3D mixed together, but of course it's always going to have a bigger focus on the Duke 3D side of gameplay.

Still, those are valid points. I'm interested in what you have to say about the 2nd half of the TC, some of those levels are pretty long and deep.

Edit: The inventory screen shows things like keycards, inventory items, and other special items you have. Considering all the unique types of keys in the TC that can be useful. But I imagine the PDA is something that was probably made so that it could be taken advantage of in later episodes? Just more speculation though, since you're right it didn't have a massive use in episode 1.

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!

This post has been edited by Mickey C: 09 May 2014 - 06:56 PM

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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#18

Quote

Part of the TC's charm is that it's sort of Deus Ex and Duke 3D mixed together, but of course it's always going to have a bigger focus on the Duke 3D side of gameplay.


Yeah but Duke 3D only robbed you after an episode, an acceptable series of levels.
I can see the DX/First Person RPG influence, Duke Ex is fun :P I've noticed some DX textures also, maybe some System Shock 2 ones too, not sure. It's just a shame that there is quite an inconsistency in gameplay depth. For example the Abyss features very simplistic gameplay (very much so with just one weapon at a time) in comparison to what came before, though the hardcore platforming half made up for it. Well, OK not hardcore, but intermediate/advanced. Speaking of: in the fleshy area where you have to press two eye switches to raise two platforms to jump across into the gap with the mega health thingy (and to progress), I only had to press one of the switches and then a sprinting jump got me across without having to press the other. This may be intentional, but I assume it was not.


Quote

Still, those are valid points. I'm interested in what you have to say about the 2nd half of the TC, some of those levels are pretty long and deep.


Cool. I'll look forward to episode 2 also.

View PostMickey C, on 09 May 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

Edit: The inventory screen shows things like keycards, inventory items, and other special items you have. Considering all the unique types of keys in the TC that can be useful. But I imagine the PDA is something that was probably made so that it could be taken advantage of in later episodes? Just more speculation though, since you're right it didn't have a massive use in episode 1.


Yes, it does have a purpose, but I do hope it is expanded upon for episode 2.

Also, consider adding descriptions of all inventory items, most have no description. Is that a flashlight I see in the corner? How do I use that, the tutorial and key bindings make no mention of it.

Oh another thing, the wall kick and slide manoeuvres, I haven't seen them utilized as a requirement (for secret areas or otherwise) in the level design yet except the tutorial. this one probably was intentional; just leaving them as optional gameplay mechanics, I'm just wondering. I found the secret in the 2nd level that required placing the barrel under the vent and jumping on DX style though ;)

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 09 May 2014 - 07:27 PM

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User is online   Micky C 

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#19

Yeah it's an optional gameplay mechanic. I used a bit of it in at one of my levels for episode 2. I agree that they're cool features that should be used more, but don't forget there's an episode 3 coming later Posted Image (and hey you can learn to use mapster and make a level for the TC yourself :P )

I was thinking about the weapons being reset at the start at some of the levels, and I remembered that there is indeed another side to the coin; if you knew in advance that you were going to lose your ammo, then you'd be more willing to use some of the more powerful weapons rather than saving them "just in case" and never actually using them. There's arguments for both sides.

Oh and btw in regards to your comment on alt fire being underused (by which I assume you mean alternate ammo types), they become much more important in higher difficulties. E.g some magical enemies become immune to everything except silver and energy. And you really, really want to use armour-piercing ammo for armoured units.
When I first played the TC and learned about all those features like the rolls and looking around corners, I thought "pfft, James went overboard with useless features that sound good but nobody's going to use", and then on the top 2 difficulty settings which were much harder, I found myself being forced to use them, making gameplay deeper which is excellent. Between the change in tactics between difficulties, the upgrades, and the different characters, the TC has amazing replay value. Plus it's fully compatible with Duke 3D user maps.

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!
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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#20

View PostMickey C, on 09 May 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

Posted Image (and hey you can learn to use mapster and make a level for the TC yourself :P )


I would love to, but have decided to go indie.

Quote

I was thinking about the weapons being reset at the start at some of the levels, and I remembered that there is indeed another side to the coin; if you knew in advance that you were going to lose your ammo, then you'd be more willing to use some of the more powerful weapons rather than saving them "just in case" and never actually using them. There's arguments for both sides.


Not if there is stingy ammo distribution that results in the big guns being almost a necessity at some point. In Doom we use our cells and rockets at a decent rate, for example. Also, even if there is lots of ammo and you never end up using them, that was your choice/mistake to conserve indefinitely. Duke itself has decent ammo distribution also, just enough to be able to end up being over-conservative with say devastator ammo, but that was the players choice to not strive to always keep it's ammo around 50-75, or if you do encounter another box when at full, make sure you use some ammo and then come back for the box. Plenty tactical options open up with a decent ammo system.

Quote

Oh and btw in regards to your comment on alt fire being underused (by which I assume you mean alternate ammo types), they become much more important in higher difficulties. E.g some magical enemies become immune to everything except silver and energy. And you really, really want to use armour-piercing ammo for armoured units.
When I first played the TC and learned about all those features like the rolls and looking around corners, I thought "pfft, James went overboard with useless features that sound good but nobody's going to use", and then on the top 2 difficulty settings which were much harder, I found myself being forced to use them, making gameplay deeper which is excellent. Between the change in tactics between difficulties, the upgrades, and the different characters, the TC has amazing replay value. Plus it's fully compatible with Duke 3D user maps.


Nope, I did indeed mean alt-fire, but I wasn't clear enough. I meant I believe not enough weapons have alt fire functionality, though there is still quite a few I was just being picky. And yes, I am playing on one of the harder difficulties where there are silver enemies that I quickly discovered are immune to certain types of attacks. I'd prefer they just have even greater resistances to certain damage types so all weapons are at least somewhat viable but it's just personal preference and minor.

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 09 May 2014 - 10:53 PM

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User is offline   Jblade 

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#21

Letting the player keep their inventory between levels would make the game too easy or too difficult, depending on how good they are. There's many different characters with different ammo amounts and gun strengths, it's simply not feasible or possible to account for how strong/weak a player is on level start with the amount of variables present. It's not really supposed to be like Deus Ex gameplay wise at all and it's a flattering comparison that many people make but I don't really share the same point of view. You can customise your loadout somewhat but the idea is most levels are intended as separate units to each other, so having gameplay start over from scratch is the best option balance wise.
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#22

View PostJames, on 09 May 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

There's many different characters with different ammo amounts and gun strengths, it's simply not feasible or possible to account for how strong/weak a player is on level start with the amount of variables present.


It certainly is between levels featuring the same character. Also you don't have to know exactly the condition of the player. If a player enters the next level with 1 ammo on the hardest difficulty they are pretty much fucked in Nukem unless they are insanely skilled, same with most old school shooters. It's not "I as a designer account for how much ammo player has at this point in time", It's "I as a designer will set the standard with ammo and health pickups and the players better well conform to it or they die". You design a challenge.
....Which the level designers have done in AMC TC, but only per level, no continuity..


Quote

It's not really supposed to be like Deus Ex gameplay wise at all and it's a flattering comparison that many people make but I don't really share the same point of view. You can customise your loadout somewhat but the idea is most levels are intended as separate units to each other, so having gameplay start over from scratch is the best option balance wise.


Eh, there's a few comparisons to draw from the design, though it doesn't have to be Deus Ex, it could be any First Person RPG with it's roots or inspiration traced back to Looking Glass. But indeed there's inspiration from plenty games.

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 10 May 2014 - 07:39 AM

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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#23

The Milwaukee level is a masterpiece. Excellent level design, and the AI is pretty cool (though the jumping occult members do have their issues, still very cool though). Very reminiscent of the Wild West levels from Zero Hour and Time to Kill, but better. I am having a problem dealing with the flying warlocks though, they appear to be invulnerable to all damage types except plasma. I avoided the ones in the daycare by not triggering their spawning, but the ones in the mountains via the ventilation are persistent. I go in there, get the C4 etc but they are persistent and follow me out & through the whole level. What am I doing wrong? I only had a plasma weapon because I chose it in my loadout and can find no other plasma weapons.
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User is offline   Jblade 

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#24

It's strictly a design choice really, but 2 later levels are split into multi-levels and you keep your equipment there, so it's literally just for the Dis base section where you don't keep your weapons. In Episode 2 as Micky said you keep your weapons between levels more often, but they're also made to be beatable from starting from scratch.

Also there's a later level, Revolution, which I think you're going to dislike - there have been a few changes to it for Episode 2, it's been probably the mod's most controversial level (I say that term lightly, it's just a bit more difficult and reflective of modern shooters than older games)

Supernatural enemies are vulnerable to silver weapons as well as Rusty's pulse gun. In the daycare staff lodge, you'll pick up a key which will unlock one of the doors in that building. The one locked behind a metal grill door holds a Crossbow and silver bolts - there's also a riotgun in the lodge leading up to the Church with some tesla ammunition, which also damages supernatural enemies. Once you get silver ammo, if you research it than it unlocks a further research item which is a silver knife (can be assigned to the melee slot) You can also swap over the bayonet on Rusty's FG-42 for a silver one a swell.


This post has been edited by James: 10 May 2014 - 12:54 PM
Reason for edit: my head is full of fuck

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User is offline   Gameplay Nut 

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#25

View PostJames, on 10 May 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

It's strictly a design choice really, but 2 later levels are split into multi-levels and you keep your equipment there, so it's literally just for the Dis base section where you don't keep your weapons.


Good to hear.

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Supernatural enemies are vulnerable to silver weapons as well as Rusty's pulse gun.


Pulse gun? The one with aim down sights functionality or the one you get in the mountains by the C4?

Quote

In the daycare staff lodge, you'll pick up a key which will unlock one of the doors in that building.


There was one key and three doors. The key seemed to unlock all three doors, but you can only choose 1. I chose the one with the chicken egg (?) detonator pistol, and then the other doors wouldn't unlock. I'll go back in there though and have another look.

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there's also a riotgun in the lodge leading up to the Church with some tesla ammunition, which also damages supernatural enemies.


Yeah I got that and used all it's standard ammo but not it's tesla ammo, which I planned to save for the warlocks, but it automatically discarded the weapon once I used all the standard ammo :/

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 10 May 2014 - 01:05 PM

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User is offline   Jblade 

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#26

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Pulse gun? The one with aim down sights functionality or the one you get in the mountains by the C4?

The one you get by the mountains I believe, it fires red projectiles. The ADS gun is the nailgun :P

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There was one key and three doors. The key seemed to unlock all three doors, but you can only choose 1. I chose the one with the chicken egg (?) detonator pistol, and then the other doors wouldn't unlock. I'll go back in there though and have another look.

Chicken egg?! It's a remote dart gun ;) If you've been to the other area with the warlocks, the one with the circular path, than that has another key you can use to unlock another door.

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Yeah I got that and used all it's standard ammo but not it's tesla ammo, which I planned to save for the warlocks, but it automatically discarded the weapon once I used all the standard ammo :/

Yeah that's one of the things I wanted to fix for Episode 2, but it's slightly more difficult than I thought it would be. If worst comes to worse, you can spawn a new one with the console and the game won't count it as cheating so you won't lose out on a skill trophy (which you'll need to unlock golden guns when you beat expert and the extended ending when you beat professional) type into the console spawn riotgunsprite and it should pop one out on your position.
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#27

View PostJames, on 10 May 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

The one you get by the mountains I believe, it fires red projectiles. The ADS gun is the nailgun :P


Ah, I thought it was having no effect (I should really change the variable that enables SFX based on resistances) but there was four warlocks in there so I was probably spraying ammo at them evenly.

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Chicken egg?! It's a remote dart gun :D


Looks like it fires chicken eggs :D

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If you've been to the other area with the warlocks, the one with the circular path, than that has another key you can use to unlock another door.


Cool, yeah I assumed it would.

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Yeah that's one of the things I wanted to fix for Episode 2, but it's slightly more difficult than I thought it would be. If worst comes to worse, you can spawn a new one with the console and the game won't count it as cheating so you won't lose out on a skill trophy (which you'll need to unlock golden guns when you beat expert and the extended ending when you beat professional) type into the console spawn riotgunsprite and it should pop one out on your position.


No cheating allowed, I'll load an earlier save if it comes to it :D
I don't think it's a problem with the design here, except for automatically discarding the riot gun before it's ammo is used. They have a visual shielding effect when attacked by an ineffective gun don't they, or is that their attack effect? I was confused about that.
I take it they are not invulnerable to most damage types on the lower difficulties?
But yes, the problem was me not realising the pulse gun was effective. Don't change the design because I fucked up ;) Well, except the riot gun discarding oversight, and if there is no visual shielding effect then that is worth adding too.

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 10 May 2014 - 01:39 PM

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User is offline   Jblade 

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#28

Damage types do reduced damage on medium, and IIRC they do full, normal damage on Easy (I don't touch that skill though) Also, on easy you take only 1/3 damage and enemies are much more likely to drop health when you're low. On expert/professional enemies do twice as much damage and are less likely to drop health when you're hurt. It's wise to play on normal for the first run through, but of course I can't stop people going for that extra hard mode on the first try :P Professional is much more difficult - it has a few things that are being removed in Episode 2 (like extended reloads, which made guns unfun to use)
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#29

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On expert/professional enemies do twice as much damage and are less likely to drop health when you're hurt. It's wise to play on normal for the first run through


Well, four difficulty modes, third one down seemed suitable for me, and I believe it still is. I like a decent challenge, not too insane, but enough to feel the burn on occasion. Expert provides that in a first playthrough so far. Though quicksave spam makes most types of challenge easy to bypass if you get tired.

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 10 May 2014 - 01:35 PM

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#30

OK, I am not at fault.

-Emptied all silver bolts, and all pulse rounds into the warlocks but to no effect. Save a miss or two but it easily should have been enough.
-They appear to have a visual shielding effect indicating no effect, this is good of course.
-The only weapon that appears to kill them is the plasma rifle (the researched one). When shooting them with this weapon no shielding effect appears, pain SFX plays, and they get stun locked (I think) by the constant barrage of plasma bolts. they die in ~20 bolts, a reasonable amount, but all I have is 20 shots so I can only kill one. No other weapons are having this effect. Didn't reload a previous save to test the riot gun tesla mode but it wouldn't be enough to kill them all anyway I assume since it's only 50 shots.
Am I the only fucker to play AMC TC on Expert on a first playthrough, or have I encountered a rare bug and they usually do die to those weapons on Expert?

I guess I'll have to cheat after all, or attempt to complete it with them following me around the map. May be do-able depends if the end of the level isn't far after destroying the wall with the C4.

Edit: OK...just tried again. Silver bolts worked, cunts are dead. Not sure why they didn't last time, I guess I must have changed back to standard bolts. Pulse rifle definitely had no effect though, so it will be problematic for other players on Expert.

View PostJames, on 10 May 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Also there's a later level, Revolution, which I think you're going to dislike


Urgh, you are correct in that assumption. Why taint your own work in such a way!? Wasn't a huge fan of the snow base either but it wasn't too bad, this however...entirely devolved from the excellence of welcome to Milwaukee, and the levels that came before W2M were decent enough. I get that you've gone for plenty of different gameplay styles per theme/character, but it's changed a lot (for the worse) since that very promising introduction. </3 :P This mod is all over the place, which was somewhat intended given the concept, but damn.
Is there redemption to come in later levels, another W2M? By the way the Phantasm balls in Jekyll's library were hilarious.

Still, this is/was a very ambitious and fun TC and I will continue. Won't let one rotten egg...

This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 10 May 2014 - 07:39 PM

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