[MetHy]

Well yeah but let's not forget this is a 3DRealms contest, made to promote the games Shadow Warrior and Duke Nukem 3D. Mods/TCs aren't really DN3D/SW anymore.... Especially when nowadays, people do everything they can to remove any problematic content to make the mods standalone and to call them "eduke32 mods".

I mean it would be nice, but I don't see it happening.

[Forge]

people have been editing cons and art for the vanilla games pretty much as long as they have been making maps.
i don't see an why there would be an issue with having two separate categories for any contest(s)

people with a certain skill-set like deeperthought or cage shouldn't have to ride in the back of the bus all the time when it comes to stuff like this

[Danukem]

Forge, on 30 April 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

people have been editing cons and art for the vanilla games pretty much as long as they have been making maps.
i don't see an why there would be an issue with having two separate categories for any contest(s)

people with a certain skill-set like deeperthought or cage shouldn't have to ride in the back of the bus all the time when it comes to stuff like this

I'm certainly not trying to put myself on the back of the bus! But having a few months of contests at the beginning that don't allow modifications makes sense to me for a few reasons. I already mentioned the difficulty of comparing vanilla maps with maps for mods/TCs. Another issue is that when people --many of whom may be new or casual Duke players drawn in because they heard about the contest-- are trying out the maps, they might be unhappy to learn they have to install a bunch of stuff and learn how to use it depending on the map they are playing. Because of these and other concerns, we might want to keep it simple at first, until the contests are off to a good start. Then after a few months, try having contests that are open to mods/TCs and see how that goes.

But again, this is all just my humble opinion. I'd be happy with pretty much any rules, honestly.

[MetHy]

Forge, on 30 April 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

people with a certain skill-set like deeperthought or cage shouldn't have to ride in the back of the bus all the time when it comes to stuff like this

Because it says "map of the month" and because nobody said they can't make a map. If I see a con-coding contest, I'll think "Cool", and not think "This is unfair for mappers!"
That's like banana breeders asking the organizers of an apples contest to join in because they feel left out, and this before the apple contest is even a sure thing.
But perhaps the apples contest organizers don't want to take care of a bananas contest? Perhaps they don't have time and having already ONE contest takes enough effort ? Perhaps they believe they don't know as much about bananas than they do about apples or that bananas are less related to them than apples ? etc Perhaps they're going to give up their own apple contest because having all the other fruits come knocking at their door is too much trouble

These are just suppositions, not trying to talk for anyone. My point is perhaps we shouldn't focus on more than the original matter here.

Edit : also perhaps there aren't enough banana breeders to justify even a yearly contest

[OpenMaw]

Indeed. Each caveat raised just makes me shrug my shoulders. Oh, the one-month time limit is unfair to new comers? Yeah. It's a contest. You don't slow down the fastest runner in a race because the slow guys can't keep up. That's the point. You have X days to do Y thing and do it well. Don't tell me a month isn't enough time to do this kind of thing when people can hold 24/48 hour animation contests. That is assuming that's what was meant in the initial conceptualisation here.

[Forge]

well ModDb has their thing for modders, so coders and other skill sets have their niche (though it does go beyond just the build engine).
It was just a suggestion to get everyone involved and give people other than just mappers a chance to win something too.
i'll stay selfish and exclude bananas.

Commando Nukem, on 30 April 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Each caveat raised just makes me shrug my shoulders.

Oh, the one-month time limit is unfair to new comers?

That's the point. You have X days to do Y thing and do it well. Don't tell me a month isn't enough time to ...yada-yada-yada............

i'm sorry my posts are too boring for you to finish reading.

several people (myself included) feel that there should be no time limit to build a map as it would hinder quality. If it takes a year for someone to make a map then they can enter it in the next available contest

Not everyone has the same amount of free time. A month might not be enough for some people. Another reason not to put a time limit on the build.

also monthly is more than fair to new comers. the more opportunities there are, the better there is a chance for someone new to win each month. (at least after the first several months when people with stashes have used them up)


it's all hypothetical supposition anyway...and that's why i'm here. to make stupid suggestions so people can go, "yea, that's dumb. (translate=good thing you brought it up so we can avoid that)."

[OpenMaw]

Forge, on 30 April 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

i'm sorry my posts are too boring for you to finish reading.

I wasn't even specifically responding to you. Just the general tone of the thread.

Forge, on 30 April 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

the majority (myself included) feel that there should be no time limit to build a map as it would hinder quality. If it takes a year for someone to make a map then they can enter it in the next available contest

It wouldn't. You consider how much time you have, and based on the objectives given within the contest, you design your map according to how much time you have. This isn't some new concept here. There have been so many map contests held for so many games over the years with hard-edged time limits, or brush/sector/sprite limits and it has never been an issue. If you don't feel you have the time or the skill, you shouldn't participate. The whole point of a contest is the challenges put forth by the rules.

Let's handicap the eating contest because the fat person has a bigger stomach and can thusly eat more than twiggy-mc-bulimia over here.

Forge, on 30 April 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Not everyone has the same amount of free time. A month might not be enough for some people. Another reason not to put a time limit on the build.

Not everyone has the same amount of talent, or experience, either. Do you want to institute handicaps? Oh, it's not fair. Should the people who don't win also get consolation prizes for participating too? The whole point of a contest is to demonstrate the diamond in the rough. The person who can, or is willing to inject a piece of themselves into a work within the framework of the contest. Hell, in that respect it could act as a bit of a learning experience too, with the winner maybe giving some insight into how they built the map, what some of the techniques are they used, maybe even some personal tricks. Increase the sense of community across the board.

[Forge]

i'm not sure i get you. you're making no sense at all.

you spout off about handicapping people like it's a bad thing, but you want to institute a time limit to handicap people - claiming it's not a handicap.

[Danukem]

It's pretty silly for us to be having a heated debate on what the rules will be, since none of have any say in the matter and we are just throwing ideas around at this point.

[Forge]

Trooper Dan, on 30 April 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

It's pretty silly for us to be having a heated debate on what the rules will be, since none of have any say in the matter and we are just throwing ideas around at this point.

i know, but smarmy comments get my attention

Commando Nukem, on 30 April 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Not everyone has the same amount of talent, or experience, either. Do you want to institute handicaps? Oh, it's not fair. Should the people who don't win also get consolation prizes for participating too?
Let's handicap the eating contest because the fat person has a bigger stomach and can thusly eat more than twiggy-mc-bulimia over here

let's say something silly about handicaps but completely discount the difference between a person who has 4+ hours a day to map vs. a person who only has 1 hour a day if their lucky.

Commando Nukem, on 30 April 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

If you don't feel you have the time or the skill-moot, you shouldn't participate.

if you have a full time job/school, a family, other obligations - then stay out. More apples for me.

he has valid points about trying to even the playing field, but they're camouflaged in with apparent condescending remarks so i refuse to acknowledge them
ultimately i just don't agree with something that will potentially reduce maximum participation

[Ancient Coffee Bean]

Would you allow recently released maps into the contests?, I released a map around christmas on the workshop but that got buried under old re-releases fast and not many people saw it, spent so long on it too.

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=205698980

If you do the contest thing I'll email it as a entry around then, but I don't know if there is much point in doing these contests, certainly not for shadow warrior at least.

[MetHy]

Ancient Coffee Bean, on 22 May 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

If you do the contest thing I'll email it as a entry around then, but I don't know if there is much point in doing these contests, certainly not for shadow warrior at least.

The point is more people (re)play Duke3D and SW and therefore realize how awesome 3Drealms is; on top of that how awesome it is for them to make such a contest rewarding die hard fans while the tendency these days is rather to fuck fans up the ass.

As a consequence the point is more people would have the curiosity to check maps, even if it's not part of the contest, more people would play yours.
Btw, over 1300 (current) subscribers for your map is a lot. I wouldn't call that 'buried' in releases. You don't realize that before Megaton was released, the max players a mapper could hope was around a hundred.

It's a win/win situation. 3Drealms has nothing to lose, neither do the community.

I really hope this contest becomes reality.

[MetHy]

So is this every going to happen?

If the lack of content is an issue than perhaps it could be a cross-game contest involving every 3DRealms game, old and new (DN3D, SW, ROTT, Bombshell and its prequel, etc)

[Daedolon]

It would be a great tool to bring the community together to produce amazing content for these games.

I'm still excited for this idea and would love to make a usermap for Duke3D or such.

[MetHy]

Honestly, I started a SW map last year because of this announce that's 75% done, and now I need an extra motivation to finish it.

[Robman]

MetHy, on 14 August 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Honestly, I started a SW map last year because of this announce that's 75% done, and now I need an extra motivation to finish it.

Finish the damn map, or I'll fly to France and smack you repeatedly with my LoWang......... inspired now?

Mushroom motivation.