[icecoldduke]

Frederik Schreiber, on 11 July 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

What they wanted to do (Hoover Dam Included), was simply not possible with the Q2 Engine (Large open spaces).

Hindsight is always 20/20 but based on the limited information thats out right now, George and Scott seemed to be focused on graphical showcase pieces, and one off scripted sequences rather then gameplay. There first mistake was not flushing out the game before choosing idTech 2, there next mistake was switching to Unreal.

[Altered Reality]

Frederik Schreiber, on 11 July 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

99% was used in the 1998 trailer. All there was, were levels containing scenes used in the trailer.
Each one was scripted for that purpose, believe it or not. There's not much more to it.

And yes, you're right. But that was only in planning stages.
What they wanted to do (Hoover Dam Included), was simply not possible with the Q2 Engine (Large open spaces).
The content was never actually developed.

Do you currently have access to the Quake and Quake 2 builds of DNF?

[deuxsonic]

They could have done the hoover dam with Quake 2, it just wouldn't have looked like this:



Was it worth it?

[Richard Shead]

Altered Reality, on 11 July 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Wieder said that many things from the 2001 trailer were fake.

Yup, many things were fake. But most were real! And from early 2001 to late 2002 I'm sure plenty of more content was implemented. Any way you cut it, Unreal DNF had far more of a game going for it than Quake 1 or 2 ever did.

Altered Reality, on 11 July 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

I'm disagreeing with Fresch, who was never on the project.

Well, that is also technically true. But he now owns all of those archived files...which he has played through and experienced first hand. So, with respect, I'll take his word over yours.

stumppy84, on 11 July 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Hey Fred how close do you think the 02 build was to completion?

I've never been so simultaneously intrigued by and scared of an answer. If Fresch replies to your inquiry, this just might be me:

[icecoldduke]

deuxsonic, on 11 July 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

They could have done the hoover dam with Quake 2, it just wouldn't have looked like this:



Was it worth it?

Nope

[Altered Reality]

It would've looked like this:  sin.png (205.21K)
Number of downloads: 299
(screenshot from a SiN playthrough)

Duke Rocks, on 11 July 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Well, that is also technically true. But he now owns all of those archived files...which he has played through and experienced first hand. So, with respect, I'll take his word over yours.

Well, where do you think this screenshot came from?

BTW, was it Fresch who said that Duke Nukem 3D Reloaded was shut down by Gearbox because it looked better than DNF?

[Richard Shead]

Altered Reality, on 11 July 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Well, where do you think this screenshot came from?

"PC Games Magazine".

[deuxsonic]

Maybe they could have done some kind of matte painting like they used to do for movies (other games have done this using skyboxes to make areas look larger and more impressive) to make the area look like that but within the technical restraints of the engine or made that part a separate map or some other clever thing (you come up with some clever tricks sometimes to work with a constraint -- the build engine had plenty.) It's a huge empty area anyway in the screenshot and I think if they had stuck to their original work the game would have gotten done in a reasonable amount of time and looked good for the time (probably pushing the engine to it's limits or maybe modifed). There's always something better looking on the horizon and finishing what they started out with would have still looked pretty good alongside Unreal and SiN and all that. Once the "I want this" stuff started and they licensed another engine it was never going to stop.

[PikaCommando]

Altered Reality, on 11 July 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

It would've looked like this: sin.png
(screenshot from a SiN playthrough)

Well, where do you think this screenshot came from?

BTW, was it Fresch who said that Duke Nukem 3D Reloaded was shut down by Gearbox because it looked better than DNF?

I think this Lake Mead would have worked the same way with the Q2 Highway level; it's just a small box with scrolling skyboxes like the train DM level in SiN. Since Fred said that the Unreal DNF Highway level has free-roaming, I assume this would be the same with the Unreal Lake Mead level, hence the crashing through the docks scene in the trailer (which Wieder said was Playable).

I don't know why y'all are against Fred here, since he has the builds (and actually played them) and iirc he said that the 2002 Unreal engine build is the closest one to completion (it was the dynamic lighting and all the changes needed to support it that was the beginning of the end because suddenly all the levels became Doom 3 dark as evident in the 2003 gameplay footage).

[DNSkill]

For those going against what Fresch is saying.. He has the builds, and has seen what is in them.

You're acting like you've never heard of ADVERTISEMENT. People always do things to make ads work in their favor, and DNF was no exception. They put that trailer together for E3 and 3DR has been known to manipulate their photo ads to look cool (like the DN3D box art screenshots that showed more gore and stuff that doesn't show up in the game like it does in that screenshot).

I don't see any reason to argue what Fresch has said.

[HulkNukem]

I choose to believe the 98 and 2001 builds not only exist, but are completely 100% finished and playable, however there is a legally binding contract that absolutely no one that sees any of them can say anything other than "Yeah they don't exist" or "They were great but were fake"

[deuxsonic]

gerolf, on 11 July 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

(like the DN3D box art screenshots that showed more gore and stuff that doesn't show up in the game like it does in that screenshot).

I never really noticed... I do recall the screenshot of the Cycloid on a rooftop next to a 3D Realms water tower on the box that is not actually in the game.

[Kathy]

HulkNukem, on 11 July 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

I choose to believe the 98 and 2001 builds not only exist, but are completely 100% finished and playable, however there is a legally binding contract that absolutely no one that sees any of them can say anything other than "Yeah they don't exist" or "They were great but were fake"

Define "100% finished". And what are you basing this off, just your belief or something else?

[deuxsonic]

Alright I think I see what you mean, the bottom left screenshot has blood pools of the type that can only be placed manually. The top left shot would likely be set up manually as well since it shows a commander and an enforcer mid-death animation and large explosions you wouldn't get with the devastator. That cycloid scene isn't in the game, and I have no idea where the shot with Duke holding the RPG is supposed to be. I'm going to assume they were all just placed sprites and then they took a picture.

[TerminX]

deuxsonic, on 11 July 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

Alright I think I see what you mean, the bottom left screenshot has blood pools of the type that can only be placed manually. The top left shot would likely be set up manually as well since it shows a commander and an enforcer mid-death animation and large explosions you wouldn't get with the devastator. That cycloid scene isn't in the game, and I have no idea where the shot with Duke holding the RPG is supposed to be. I'm going to assume they were all just placed sprites and then they took a picture.

That scene with the Cycloid Emperor is actually Movie Set with a couple of textures changed. All of those sort of shots were indeed staged in the editor.

[deuxsonic]

Were you originally going to fight the cycloid emperor on movie set?

[PikaCommando]

HulkNukem, on 11 July 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

I choose to believe the 98 and 2001 builds not only exist, but are completely 100% finished and playable, however there is a legally binding contract that absolutely no one that sees any of them can say anything other than "Yeah they don't exist" or "They were great but were fake"

Now that's just being delusional. I know the 3DR of that time were a bit over their head, but I don't think they're that stupid enough to scrap completely finished games.

[MusicallyInspired]

I think HulkNukem knows it's not true but is just choosing to be blissfully ignorant.

[Richard Shead]

HulkNukem, on 11 July 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

I choose to believe the 98 and 2001 builds not only exist, but are completely 100% finished and playable, however there is a legally binding contract that absolutely no one that sees any of them can say anything other than "Yeah they don't exist" or "They were great but were fake"

Then Fred has clearly breached that alleged contract because he came out and said that DNF 2001/02 is real, albeit incomplete. Ditto Wieder. I'm all for a good conspiracy, but your theory - provided you're being serious - holds no water, IMO.

[Frederik Schreiber]

HulkNukem, on 11 July 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

I choose to believe the 98 and 2001 builds not only exist, but are completely 100% finished and playable, however there is a legally binding contract that absolutely no one that sees any of them can say anything other than "Yeah they don't exist" or "They were great but were fake"

HulkNukems post is clearly satirical and sacrastic.
Don't take it seriously

[Lunick]

Hey Fred, did you see this?

Marphy Black, on 06 July 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

While we're on the subject of Lee's midis, is there a chance the unreleased Wendt - Doug Wendt ROTT track could see a release in its original midi format? As far as I know, there aren't any legal quagmires surrounding ROTT, the track has already seen a public release in one form, and I presume the midi was available for this purpose at the time.

[Hendricks266]

ROTT would be a good place to start with the betas honestly. It's symbolic for Interceptor and we would only need to talk to Terry Nagy.

[Altered Reality]

gerolf, on 11 July 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

For those going against what Fresch is saying.. He has the builds, and has seen what is in them.

Does he actually have the builds? I was under the impression that everything related to DNF had been physically moved from the 3DRealms offices to the Gearbox offices back in 2009, when Gearbox acquired the IP and Joe "will lie for food" Siegler insisted it didn't.

[Richard Shead]

Altered Reality, on 12 July 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Does he actually have the builds? I was under the impression that everything related to DNF had been physically moved from the 3DRealms offices to the Gearbox offices back in 2009, when Gearbox acquired the IP and Joe "will lie for food" Siegler insisted it didn't.

Yup, he is in possession of everything 3DR-related, included all the work done on the various versions of DNF. Wieder basically confirmed it on here.

[Kathy]

Duke Nukem has nothing to do with 3dRealms nowadays.

[PikaCommando]

Altered Reality, on 12 July 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Does he actually have the builds? I was under the impression that everything related to DNF had been physically moved from the 3DRealms offices to the Gearbox offices back in 2009, when Gearbox acquired the IP and Joe "will lie for food" Siegler insisted it didn't.

What's up with Joe Siegler? He's one of the devs, right?

[Lunick]

He's a janitor

[Richard Shead]

Kathy, on 12 July 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

Duke Nukem has nothing to do with 3dRealms nowadays.

I would say that it's vice versa.

PikaCommando, on 12 July 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

What's up with Joe Siegler? He's one of the devs, right?

Pretty much only for one game, the original ROTT.

Lunick, on 12 July 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

He's a janitor

Really? At 3DR or elsewhere?

[deuxsonic]

What has George been doing for money? I swear I saw something about Starbucks on his Twitter feed a while back. Is he a barista? I don't mean it in a mean way, I'm genuinely curious.

[stumppy84]

Hah! I'm sure George is doing fine. He did own half of 3DR, I'm sure he's bank some dough after all the sales of Max Payne, SW, and Prey IP's.