[Hendricks266]

I'm sure Devolver would be open to at least having a discussion with me about the SW materials, and Deadly Kiss, especially with SW 2 coming up. Full disclosure: For me to be fully motivated I would need for them to not take all the credit, and also go easy on their usual PR flavor that is not to my personal tastes, but either way I would be interested in working with them. I'm still slightly miffed at Nacho going around me and contacting them prior to the release of Redux and how their Twitter accounts have talked about the project as theirs since then, but that's a small matter.

[Fulsy]

Just saying, I'd totally pay for a "Definitive edition" of Duke3D released for its anniversary, that included goodies like all the betas in restored condition. Seeing how gearbox has been treating TX, and Duke3D in general (Remember the purging of the megaton edition) doesn't make me optimistic that it'll ever happen, though.

[TerminX]

 CatNapDreams, on 09 July 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

For context, a quick example (one of dozens of which my view is based) When I was younger it wasn't uncommon to bring firearms to school as long as you left them in the office, and no one ever heard of a school shooting.

http://www.history.c...ersity-of-texas

Quote

Conjunction as in they would allow it, or conjunction as in GearBox would need to be involved in a way that allows them financial gain? Or can you say?

I'd have to somehow convince someone it was worth doing, despite the fact that it would never make them any money and would do very little for their overall public image.

[TerminX]

 Fulsy, on 09 July 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Just saying, I'd totally pay for a "Definitive edition" of Duke3D released for its anniversary, that included goodies like all the betas in restored condition. Seeing how gearbox has been treating TX, and Duke3D in general (Remember the purging of the megaton edition) doesn't make me optimistic that it'll ever happen, though.

It sucks that my license to Duke3D ended up being invalid, but that turned out to be through no fault of Gearbox. They're actually treating me very well currently. I foresee no future problems.

[Fulsy]

That's awesome to hear. Maybe there's a little hope after all.

[deuxsonic]

I'm sure it's been asked before but are there any mods that try to recreate the LameDuke weapons?

[Altered Reality]

 deuxsonic, on 09 July 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm sure it's been asked before but are there any mods that try to recreate the LameDuke weapons?

There's LamedukeX, an eDuke32-based mod which attempts to recreate the levels and the weapons from Lameduke, but uses a horrible palette where everything looks way more brown than it should be.

 Fulsy, on 09 July 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Just saying, I'd totally pay for a "Definitive edition" of Duke3D released for its anniversary, that included goodies like all the betas in restored condition. Seeing how gearbox has been treating TX, and Duke3D in general (Remember the purging of the megaton edition) doesn't make me optimistic that it'll ever happen, though.

I'd pay for a Definitive Edition of DNF that includes what was done with the Quake 1 and 2 engines, which had hyped me up for DNF in the first place.

[deuxsonic]

How about "Duke Nukem Everything Edition" with all the main Duke Nukem games and all the tests/alphas/betas/mock-ups/etc sanitized... I think that would be quite popular.

[Robman]

 Hendricks266, on 09 July 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

I'm sure Devolver would be open to at least having a discussion with me about the SW materials, and Deadly Kiss, especially with SW 2 coming up. Full disclosure: For me to be fully motivated I would need for them to not take all the credit, and also go easy on their usual PR flavor that is not to my personal tastes, but either way I would be interested in working with them. I'm still slightly miffed at Nacho going around me and contacting them prior to the release of Redux and how their Twitter accounts have talked about the project as theirs since then, but that's a small matter.

Please talk to them about the Sw betas ( and please don't f*ck it up )

Why do you need to speak to them about DK, that isn't a whole separate ball of wax?

Redux is terrible and I said it from the beginning. No multiplayer, no shadows for the enemies.. horrible health/ammo font, I had to bitch at them to implement both x AND y mouse adjustment and more oddities, oh and seemingly no more effort or support for it. There's a few cool points such as the music but it strayed too far from the classic for my liking. I'm not making this stuff up because I'm biased at all, I would much rather enjoy and promote their work but facts are facts.

Out for a quick buck on steam and it could have been the next big step for SW.. they missed the mark by 10 miles.
I think they knew their ROI would be slim so they put as little effort in as possible.

I'd love to know what the SW IP went for.. dollar-wise. Hell, I shoulda bought it, lol. LOOOOOL
I missed that garage sale.

[deuxsonic]

 Altered Reality, on 09 July 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

There's LamedukeX, an eDuke32-based mod which attempts to recreate the levels and the weapons from Lameduke, but uses a horrible palette where everything looks way more brown than it should be.

Maybe just the weapons?

[icecoldduke]

 RobMan, on 09 July 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

Please talk to them about the Sw betas ( and please don't f*ck it up )

If they aren't willing to put in the time for a proper SW port(Redux I agree was a pile of shit), what makes you think they will take the time to get the older builds prepped and ready for release? If something like this does go forward, I would hope Hendricks doesn't get stuck doing a whole bunch of work for free; I would hope Devolver would actually put up some cash for the effort.

[Robman]

Well I'm not sure how long it would take to clean the Sw betas up but being able to contact the IP owners after it's finished and saying "Hey, the Sw betas are cleaned up, is it possible these could finally be released to the fans?" .. blah blah something like that.

Worth a shot

[Hendricks266]

I actually have all but one two of the five six builds working. Damn parallel port dongle.

[DNSkill]

In my opinion from some of the recent post here, I feel that yes, Gearbox would have nothing to financially gain from the release of the material. However, many, as in most, Duke fans really dislike Gearbox after all the shit that's been going on, and I think by giving the fans something they want, it may ease the shit taste in our mouths a bit.

And with SW, I feel that Devolver wouldn't mind but it would probably need to be asked with a contract, and they would have to agree to the terms as it wouldn't be right for them to take full credit or to market it for sale.

I also think for now everyone needs to think about the D3D and SW stuff before jumping the gun on DNF and Prey stuff, as that will probably be less likely to happen.

And I'm sure the ROTT assets could be released since 3DR still owns that IP. Even the Wolf 3d II could be released I'm sure, or at least the graphics (the Wolfenstein community would fucking love that, and yes they still exist even though their numbers are low).

[Micky C]

Yeah but Duke fans are an almost insignificant part of their fanbase. It can easily be argued that DNF was meant to target the general gaming community. The next Duke game will do the same. A relatively small amount of hardcore fans who aren't too happy won't make much difference. And let's be honest, most of us will probably buy the next Duke game from them, at least if it gets somewhat decent reviews.

[Richard Shead]

 Altered Reality, on 09 July 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

There's LamedukeX, an eDuke32-based mod which attempts to recreate the levels and the weapons from Lameduke, but uses a horrible palette where everything looks way more brown than it should be.


I'd pay for a Definitive Edition of DNF that includes what was done with the Quake 1 and 2 engines, which had hyped me up for DNF in the first place.

And don't forget all the Unreal 1 stuff that was done before they switched to an in-house rendering system built from scratch. I would absolutely love to see the work from that crucial 1999-2002 time period, especially that of the uber-talented then-level designer Wieder. From everything I know, those are the builds that DNF was meant to be, a game that would've made the franchise stand beside or quite possibly even above the Half-Life series. It's almost unbearable to know that these mind-blowing assets will most likely never see the light of day.

[Altered Reality]

 Duke Rocks, on 09 July 2016 - 08:55 PM, said:

And don't forget all the Unreal 1 stuff that was done before they switched to an in-house rendering system built from scratch. I would absolutely love to see the work from that crucial 1999-2002 time period, especially that of the uber-talented then-level designer Wieder. From everything I know, those are the builds that DNF was meant to be, a game that would've made the franchise stand beside or quite possibly even above the Half-Life series. It's almost unbearable to know that these mind-blowing assets will most likely never see the light of day.

Truth to be told, I'm actually less interested in the Unreal stuff than I am in the Quake 1 and 2 stuff. The reason is that the engine switch caused development to switch from attempting to make a game as fast as possible, to making a test bed for every idea that would tickle George's fancy at the time (if you read the interviews, plan updates and press releases in my DNF museum, you can perceive the change of tone between "before" and "after"). My interest in the 1999-2002 stuff would mainly be to test my prediction that it wouldn't live up to its own mystique, as well as my additional prediction that afterward, people would bitch that Gearbox purposefully crippled it and removed the good stuff (additional additional prediction: even after Wieder comes and says it's not the case).

[PikaCommando]

I'm more interested in the Unreal build if only because of the Unreal Engine being much, MUCH easier to set up for widescreen with proper hor+ FOV (just edit Duke4.cfg and User.cfg and you're good to go) than the pain in the ass Quake engines that requires source ports.

[Altered Reality]

 PikaCommando, on 10 July 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

I'm more interested in the Unreal build if only because of the Unreal Engine being much, MUCH easier to set up for widescreen with proper hor+ FOV (just edit Duke4.cfg and User.cfg and you're good to go) than the pain in the ass Quake engines that requires source ports.

On the flipside, Unreal 1-based games are a pain in the ass to run in stereoscopy on modern systems (if not plainly impossible), because the only API which every stereoscopic driver supports is Direct3D 9, while Unreal 1-based games typically use Direct3D 6. This can be done with the original Unreal, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament, but only because they have Direct3D 9-based ports.
Then you have games based on Quake and Quake2 engines, which you need to hack to run in widescreen and stereoscopy on modern systems, but the effect is absolutely flawless. Case in point: SiN.

[Shaq Fu]

I always had the impression that the Unreal version would be far more exciting to have and play. Fresch made it sound like the game in late 2002 had a ton of content that was playable.
Supposedly we seen 90% of the Quake 2 build with the 1998 trailer which kind of lowered my expectations with that version.

[Richard Shead]

 Altered Reality, on 10 July 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

Truth to be told, I'm actually less interested in the Unreal stuff than I am in the Quake 1 and 2 stuff. The reason is that the engine switch caused development to switch from attempting to make a game as fast as possible, to making a test bed for every idea that would tickle George's fancy at the time (if you read the interviews, plan updates and press releases in my DNF museum, you can perceive the change of tone between "before" and "after"). My interest in the 1999-2002 stuff would mainly be to test my prediction that it wouldn't live up to its own mystique, as well as my additional prediction that afterward, people would bitch that Gearbox purposefully crippled it and removed the good stuff (additional additional prediction: even after Wieder comes and says it's not the case).

Fresch stated that basically everything from the Q1 and 2 builds has been shown already via the 1998 trailer and and even earlier screenshots. From what I also gathered by his comments, the Unreal 1 iteration by late 2002 was actually a "real", content-heavy game that could've easily been finished up and shipped...as opposed to being just conceptual mock-ups built for the sake of show-and-tell. It makes sense, because the Quake stuff only had a few months worth of work put into it. The Unreal version had had years by the time 2003 came around.

[DukeNukem64]

The 2001 game was almost shipable. it's so sad it didn't see the light of day. The game could have set a new standard in gaming.

[Altered Reality]

Wieder said that many things from the 2001 trailer were fake. And I disagree about the Quake 1 and 2 builds: first, because the French 1998 E3 video shows scenes that were not present in the official trailer; second, because there's a whole lost section: the Lake Mead level. It had only been shown as a .ram streaming video, and its loss is partially my fault: in 1998 I didn't know how .ram videos worked, so it never occurred to me that I just needed to open it with Notepad to get the URL to download the real .ra video.

[Kathy]

Holy shit, I've never saw that French video nor even heard of it.

[PikaCommando]

 Altered Reality, on 11 July 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Wieder said that many things from the 2001 trailer were fake. And I disagree about the Quake 1 and 2 builds: first, because the French 1998 E3 video shows scenes that were not present in the official trailer; second, because there's a whole lost section: the Lake Mead level. It had only been shown as a .ram streaming video, and its loss is partially my fault: in 1998 I didn't know how .ram videos worked, so it never occurred to me that I just needed to open it with Notepad to get the URL to download the real .ra video.

iirc Fred said the Quake 2 version of DNF starts development where the Quake 1 version left off and that development never got past Hoover Dam (which is what prompted the change to Unreal engine, I think?) which is Zone 5 out of the 6 Zones planned for the game (For reference, the 6 Zones as follows: Vegas, Highway, EDF Base, Desert/Ghost Town, Hoover Dam, Area 51). I assume Lake Mead is the first half of Zone 5 like how the Nevada Desert precedes Ghost Town in the same Zone.

[deuxsonic]

Sometimes I think about like where we'd be today if DNF was released as the Quake 2 engine game... Like would people today still be making maps for it and all that...

Hasn't it been said the 2001 trailer was basically another example of what was shown basically being all there was, some mockups? If both the major trailers they showed at E3 were like that, then was there ever a version that was far into development other than what was released as the final game?

[icecoldduke]

 Altered Reality, on 11 July 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

And I disagree about the Quake 1 and 2 builds

You are disagreeing with a developer who was on the project? What's even worse is the only evidence your citing is a couple areas that weren't included in the official trailer ? You should take Charlies word, since 1) he was on the project and 2) has no reason to lie about the state of the project.

 PikaCommando, on 11 July 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

which is what prompted the change to Unreal engine, I think

IMO what prompted the change to Unreal was it was a shinny new piece of technology. Shinny keys won again.

[Altered Reality]

 icecoldduke, on 11 July 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

You are disagreeing with a developer who was on the project?

I'm disagreeing with Fresch, who was never on the project. See this quote

 Duke Rocks, on 10 July 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Fresch stated that basically everything from the Q1 and 2 builds has been shown already via the 1998 trailer and and even earlier screenshots.

Also, Wieder was not yet on the project when DNF used the Quake2 engine, and he never talked about the conditions of that version.

 icecoldduke, on 11 July 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

IMO what prompted the change to Unreal was it was a shinny new piece of technology. Shinny keys won again.

Balls of Steel Limited Edition Guide, page 379: "As I recall, the Hoover Dam area was the main catalyst for us to switching to the Unreal engine. We saw the Unreal beta and it looked fantastic. The big attractor for us was that it could render these large outdoor spaces without killing the frame rate. This ended up being the big motivator for us switching from the Quake II engine to Unreal - which some might say was the beginning of the curse. If it wasn't for Hoover Dam, we would've probably stuck with the Quake II engine."

[Frederik Schreiber]

 Altered Reality, on 11 July 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

I'm disagreeing with Fresch, who was never on the project. See this quote

Also, Wieder was not yet on the project when DNF used the Quake2 engine, and he never talked about the conditions of that version.

99% was used in the 1998 trailer. All there was, were levels containing scenes used in the trailer.
Each one was scripted for that purpose, believe it or not. There's not much more to it.

And yes, you're right. But that was only in planning stages.
What they wanted to do (Hoover Dam Included), was simply not possible with the Q2 Engine (Large open spaces).
The content was never actually developed.

[stumppy84]

Hey Fred how close do you think the 02 build was to completion?