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CPAC - Establishment vs Tea, who is whining?

User is offline   Jimmy 

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#61

The fact you can't see you and your ilk are being manipulated is lush.

So many asses, so little time. Only a tight one can stop me on the dime. I'm a lover of every kind. The best surprises always sneak up from behind. I'm an Ass-man.
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User is offline   Alan 

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#62

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Alan your completely off base about the tea party. It is indeed a grassroots movement. I know plenty of tea partiers here, and none of them have been paid by anyone, or directed by another group or the GOP. It is totally spontaneous.

Nope. I just gave you a point-blank definition and a historical rundown. But it's hardly the first time I've put something in black-and-white terms and you've rejected it.

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

These people are passionate about the Constitution and the founders, the Madison papers, and the bill of rights.

They're passionate about historical revisionism, conservative correctness, selective interpretations of the law, and christian dominionism.

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

The one's I know are mad about the debt, the constant spending and the constant growing of government.

The spending they're mad about is the spending to assist the down and out. I've known a number of teabaggers, too, and this is their ultimate rallying cry: fuck you, I got mine.

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

They want REAL change. They are housewives, guys that work at the mill, truck drivers and so on. Lot of college kids too I noticed...from the Ron Paul/ Rand Paul movement no doubt.

They're all buying into the denial and delusion the libertardians made so popular. At best, the Tea Party is the Dunning-Kruger effect in full swing. At worst, it's a collection of narcissists and sociopaths ready to fuck someone else to keep their share. You want to know what the Tea Party really stands for?



View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

This got started in 2007 at Ron Paul rallies but didn't have a name yet...

Yeah it did, Campaign for Liberty.

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

...the idea of a lesser federal control and more power to the individual. It has a libertarian flavor to it.

As long as you can pay for it.

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

In 2009 CNBC's Rick Santelli (during a famous rant heard round the world in Chicago) coined the phrase "tea party". He coined the phrase after venting anger about taxpayers having to bailout homeowners that had to default, suggesting that the brokers on the trading floor meet and have a "Tea Party", and then to "throw their stocks into lake Michigan". This sent the traders into a massive cheer.

The Tea Party was born.

There are two things to take from this:
  • Fuck the lower and middle class.
  • Don't blame the banks for breaking the law.

Sure, homeowners took the loans, but they're not bankers. Combine ignorance of the terms of their home loans with continually stagnating income, decreasing job security, and already increasing unemployment, and you get defaults. Getting angry at homeowners for not being able to foresee problems with loans that were illegal up to a decade before is like getting angry at restaurant patrons for getting food poisoning because they didn't bring their own ingredients and recipes. The bankers knew what they were doing; they worked for years to repeal the Glass-Stegal Act in 1999, which was the act passed to prevent another catastrophe like the Great Depression from happening again.

Abstraksjon: når man tror at noe gjør det enklere, men fører til at det blir komplisert.

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This post has been edited by Alan: 11 March 2014 - 05:28 PM

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User is offline   Person of Color 

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#63

I just find it shocking that with everything broken about America today, the generation that caused it is still pointing fingers. The Boomers still think their opinion is relevant.

The Tea Party is shit because it really is the ultimate expression of Boomer ethos. Fuck you, I got mine. I personally believe that my party is the way forward, so anything they do is great. I'm going to give up more power that I should wield to my candidate and his government sector because fuck responsibility, it will all work out. Worship the strong, hurdle the weak. This makes me feel good and therefore anyone who disagrees is the enemy. We need a strong military because Russia was once a thing and TV news is scary. These opinions and facts are mine and if you disagree you're a commie/hitler/stalin/etc. The other side is always persecuting my side and we are victims. The entire world is wrong, these are the facts that you should believe in because they benefit my personal beliefs.

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#64

View PostAlan, on 11 March 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

*bunch of stuff*

From what you said, I am convinced that you are very liberal. That's fine, but this isn't about if the Tea Party is "co-opted" or not...this is about your hate for conservatism/libertrainism. The "I got mine, you get yours" philosophy as you put it. Yeah, I got mine you get yours...what's wrong that? That's life.

Libertrainism is ok "as long as I can pay for it" you say. Yeah, I agree, so what?

See, this is the difference between me, and someone like you. I believe in the tough hard "do it yourself" philosophy which builds character, work ethic, ownership. You believe in a philosophy of entitlement, take from one guy and give it to another. That decays character, work ethic, and creates a state of dependency, not to mention it is immoral.

You disagree with my philosophy and think it is "mean and heartless"... and that's fine. The voters will decide in November.

And abolishment of Glass Steagal would not of mattered, if the government didn't get involved with home loans...which is what REALLY created the housing bubble. The Fed also helped.

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster

This post has been edited by Blue Lightning: 11 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#65

From an anarchists' perspective, what is the point of government if the attitude of the government is "Fuck helping each other"?

So many asses, so little time. Only a tight one can stop me on the dime. I'm a lover of every kind. The best surprises always sneak up from behind. I'm an Ass-man.
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User is offline   Forge 

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#66

we went through this before. i posted a dozen sources showing financial backers of the tea party and you cried, "liberal rags" then slinked away with no facts supporting your claims.

if you think the tea party "chapters" finance themselves independently, you're choosing blind ignorance. thanks to a conservative organization named Citizens Untied (nothing fishy there) winning their case against the federal election commission, it's now too hard to track exactly where the tea party express is getting their funds and special interest money, but i assure you they're not counterfeiting it and they don't have a magic lavender pig that shoots wads of cash out its ass.
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User is offline   Forge 

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#67

grass roots is just a facade for fat old white people in scooters that suck up medicare, but whine about Shaquamonaquisha and her two crack babies getting government welfare money
"only the really deserving should get government support" is their motto, as they climb off their hover-round to go play half a round of golf

that's the i got mine, so fuck you attitude they project

This post has been edited by Forge: 11 March 2014 - 06:57 PM

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User is offline   Alan 

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#68

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

From what you said, I am convinced that you are very liberal. That's fine, but this isn't about if the Tea Party is "co-opted" or not...this is about your hate for conservatism/libertrainism. The "I got mine, you get yours" philosophy as you put it. Yeah, I got mine you get yours...what's wrong that? That's life.

Libertrainism is ok "as long as I can pay for it" you say. Yeah, I agree, so what?

See, this is the difference between me, and someone like you. I believe in the tough hard "do it yourself" philosophy which builds character, work ethic, ownership. You believe in a philosophy of entitlement, take from one guy and give it to another. That decays character, work ethic, and creates a state of dependency, not to mention it is immoral.

You disagree with my philosophy and think it is "mean and heartless"... and that's fine. The voters will decide in November.


No, the difference between you and I is that you're a sociopath, and I believe suffering is a state that is voluntarily permitted to happen by the powers that be when they know they have the option to end that suffering full-stop. It's not about you being some big, gruff alpha who does what needs to be done - and even if it were, you'd still be on the losing end of this argument, because of the simple fact this attitude brings the rest of us down.



You aren't just fighting the tough fight because it's what you have to do. Your kind holds us back as a civilization just so you can have your short-term gains. Yeah, you know, I do want to take money from people, and so do you: the difference is when I scream at the politicians to raid offshore bank accounts of ponzi scheme heads and hedgefund traders, the money goes back into the system and we benefit as a society. You accept when lunches are taken from poor children or parents are fired because their children's illnesses are too expensive because that's "freedom," but god forbid wastes of government funds. Let's just throw more money at the "job creators" in the hopes it actually works, nevermind the tax burdens on the so-called "job creators" are the lowest they've been since the 50s and yet we still have double-digit unemployment (if you don't just read the version of the report that selectively crops certain demographics to make it sound better).

You want to talk about immorality? Let's do that, then. Wealth is not finite (because physics), which means when someone hoards a lot of money, by definition someone else has less. People hoarding it slows down the rate of currency exchange (velocity of money), and when it gets down to zero (because the people with lots of money spend way too little of their money as a percentage of available assets for it to ever do anything), shit breaks and the people who weren't able to hoard it don't have anything left to spend to not meet basic needs. So pilfering rich fucks' coffers is not only morally justified, but a financial imperative for a stable economy.

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

And abolishment of Glass Steagal would not of mattered, if the government didn't get involved with home loans...which is what REALLY created the housing bubble. The Fed also helped.


This takes you from being a belligerent ignoramus to being a full-blown historical revisionist. I've already schooled your dumb ass on this subject with regards to the Great Depression and your insistence that "durr the free market fixed it and gubmint made it worse." Do you really want to go down this road again? I would assume not since you were too much of a pussy before to address any of the scores of facts I laid out before you in that debacle.

Abstraksjon: når man tror at noe gjør det enklere, men fører til at det blir komplisert.

"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea as it eliminates any genetic tendencies towards fanaticism."
-Carl Sagan

This post has been edited by Alan: 11 March 2014 - 07:12 PM

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#69

Your problem is you think you know it all. Your not willing to listen or respect anyone else's view...it's "I'm smart and everyone else is dumb". Well, no we are not dumb. We have differences of philosophy. That's not reason to call people names, or to say they are a "sociopath" or "belligerent ignoramus". I could easily say that liberalism is a mental disease, but I try to respect others philosophys, no matter how terribly flawed. Even if the philosophy has been tried for 101 years and is a proven failure (like liberalism), I don't resort to name calling. When people call names, they already lost the debate.

As far as job creators, I'm not opposed to some help to jump some job industries. You might be surprised what this libertarian thinks. I'm not Ayn Rand, and most libertarians are not. I don't have a problem with a basic safety net for example. It is true that government getting involved with housing, fucked it up. When government does that shit, it drives prices up, creates bubbles, and quality goes down. If Freddie and Fannie did not guarentee the loans, the banks would not of made the loans...end of fucking story.

People have the right to "horde" their own money. Taking it from them in the name of___(fill in the blank) is still stealing.

To answer Forge who really hates libertarianism, I am a living example or what can happen if it is followed. I was broke last year, and 4 months behind on rent. I was in serious trouble, but didn't take any government help. Instead, I took the knowledge I had of an industry I worked in (buying and selling data) and worked my ass off. And I worked smart. I starved for a few months, but now I am in the top 5% of earners. I never worry about bills now.

The bottom line is that when people who have liberal or progressive ideas get angry, it means they know they are losing. I can confirm it...you are.

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster
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User is online   Fox 

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#70

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

Your problem is you think you know it all. Your not willing to listen or respect anyone else's view...it's "I'm smart and everyone else is dumb".

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#71

What? I'm listening. Forge is not. I admitted that I would bend in some areas...abortion, safety nets, etc -I'm not calling anyone names, am I Fox? Come on.

Anyway, the political view...even MSNBC's Chuck Todd: "the political landscape doesn't look good for the democrats in 2014."

It's another midterm. Remember the last mid term in 2010? Well 2014 is a midterm, and the Tea Party is more riled up now than they were then! And they have been growing. GOP will take the Senate and gain seats in the House. It wont be pretty for the democrats. And I HOPE the GOP kicks Boehner out of the Speaker position.

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This post has been edited by Blue Lightning: 11 March 2014 - 08:34 PM

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#72

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

To answer Forge who really hates libertarianism, I am a living example or what can happen if it is followed. I was broke last year, and 4 months behind on rent. I was in serious trouble, but didn't take any government help. Instead, I took the knowledge I had of an industry I worked in (buying and selling data) and worked my ass off. And I worked smart. I starved for a few months, but now I am in the top 5% of earners. I never worry about bills now.


But that's you. Why should your narcissism affect our lives? I don't care what end of the political spectrum you are on, because I see liberals do the same shit too. People who use the word "I" nonstop when debating politics are what's killing this country.

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User is offline   MetroidJunkie 

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#73

Not every tea party organization takes money from wealthy CEOs as they're scattered. That's why they have the flaw of not having many general spokespersons since they're so localized and personalized. Without spokespersons to specifically speak on behalf of the entire cause, it's ready to demonize them but there's no doubt that they helped the GOP win seats in 2010.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#74

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

Your problem is you think you know it all. Your not willing to listen or respect anyone else's view...it's "I'm smart and everyone else is dumb". Well, no we are not dumb. blah blah blah retarded bullshit

I downvoted your post because you don't understand conservatism or liberalism on a fundamental level.

View PostMetroidJunkie, on 11 March 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

Not every tea party organization takes money from wealthy CEOs as they're scattered. That's why they have the flaw of not having many general spokespersons since they're so localized and personalized. Without spokespersons to specifically speak on behalf of the entire cause, it's ready to demonize them but there's no doubt that they helped the GOP win seats in 2010.

And this doesn't strike you as a problem? The Tea Party is filled with tools. I'll even concede that you and Blue Lightning are the exception to this for the sake of argument, but for every one of you guys there are 200 hundred tools. You said it yourself, they helped the GOP win seats. That's perpetuating the problem. And that's certainly not to say "THEY PUT CONSERVATIVES IN POWER! OMG EVIL." because it's not about that. The Tea Party is merely the controlled opposition for the GOP. I won't even argue that the Tea Party is about the Constitution, Libertarianism, etc. etc. I'll concede that point to make a far more important one; Every time they just get GOP or false Libertardians like Rand Paul elected. You can't refute this point because they haven't elected a single competent politician, they still just end up following the party line. Occupy Wall Street does the same shit for the Democrats. They're both controlled opposition to keep the Democrips/Rebloodlicans false dichotomy going.

So many asses, so little time. Only a tight one can stop me on the dime. I'm a lover of every kind. The best surprises always sneak up from behind. I'm an Ass-man.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 11 March 2014 - 09:29 PM

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#75

There's a deeper fundamental problem that exists in the United States beyond which approach will fix our economic problems - and I think Alan and Blue Lightning both miss this point.

Hardly anybody in the country trusts government or even recognizes it as competent. The federal government and its employees are constantly associated with numerous holidays, long lunch breaks, laziness, stifling bureaucracy, and a general unwillingness to serve. A Pew Research poll shows that 13% of Americans trust their government. Surprisingly (or perhaps not), we trust our defense and homeland security departments more than the IRS, Federal Reserve, and Congress.

We can't institute any economic reform in this country, because said reform originates through Congress, and the media has its prying eyes all over the legislative chambers, eager to draw attention to pork-barrel spending bills with dubious pet projects (and both parties do this with unerring constancy). The Affordable Care Act, which politicians have cleverly exempted themselves from being signed into, is turning out to be a trillion-dollar boondoggle collapsing in on itself, benefiting a few but causing an unending nightmare for many. No constituent will ever trust their representative or Senator ever again to implement new taxes or spending projects.

What few "patriotic" corporations remain in America will just take their ball and go to China if there is even the slightest hint of corporate taxes being raised. China might have the worst human rights record, worst living conditions, worst minimum wage, and worst pollution in the world; but that's exactly why industries love it there. What works in Europe works in Europe because there is at least some anticipation that the government will not try to willingly fuck over its electorate, and there is also no pressure on the European socialist countries to become corporate tax-havens. America has to shit or get off the pot.

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This post has been edited by Comrade Major: 12 March 2014 - 02:50 AM

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#76

View PostBlue Lightning, on 11 March 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

To answer Forge who really hates libertarianism

what you completely fail to realize is that i don't give a damn one way or the other

every political thread with your involvement turns into tea party this...tea party that...like you're trying to recruit people or something
even then i wouldn't care.
its when you spread misinformation, delusions, false propaganda and complete lies that i get involved - and that's just to call you out on your bullshit

your "grassroots" movement is funded by special interest groups
your "grassroots" movement isn't as decentralized as you'd like people to believe - just track the tea party express money to the state candidates (if you can)
your "grassroots" movement uses propaganda and catch phrases to wrangle in support from the lower and middle class - "we're constitutionalists and we want to fix the government and the budget" - little do the lower and middle class shills know that the "hidden" agenda is to actually take away all their government benefits while keeping those for the rich white fat-cats in place.

there's more, but you'll deny everything because you're too caught up in it to admit that your favored political group is just like every other political group out there. All talk to tell the people what they want to hear, but working at their own behind the scenes goals that benefit themselves and their major financial supporters

This post has been edited by Forge: 12 March 2014 - 05:04 AM

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#77

The only thing I favor is the Constitution. If the Tea Party backs something that is un constitutional, they lose me. I'm not trying to recruit anyone. I simply defend a party that is being bashed as not grassroots, when in my estimation it is grassroots.

What I have noticed is a cynicism by a lot of people on these boards that no political party or group will change anything and the government will stay corrupt. I disagree. I think that there is a real chance to make a change. this opportunity happens perhaps once a century. I said before it will take a libertarian movement to do it, that the two parties wont do it. But this is all just my opinion after all.

I am excited by the possibilities though.

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User is offline   Forge 

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#78

that's fine. support what you want, just don't think you're hollow arguments are swaying anyone's opinion.

basically you want to take the country back to the pre-civil war days. deregulate corporations and industries - no checks and balances, no safety or health regulations, no environmental protection - if someone gets hurt on the job or wants a raise to keep up with the inflation caused by huge sales taxes to compensate for no industry taxes, then just throw them into the toxic swamp out back and go get a new one. children work for pennies a day. If someone is unable to work they can pawn all their stuff and go hustle their body on a street corner to get by -at least until they're too old or wracked with diseases and malnutrition - after that they can conveniently go die in a ditch somewhere. The government should be a minimal and unapproachable institute present only to regulate trade with other nations. If we starve off or let all the lower class parasites die away then we can live in our upper class white utopia.

This post has been edited by Forge: 12 March 2014 - 10:33 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#79

View PostComrade Major, on 12 March 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

Hardly anybody in the country trusts government or even recognizes it as competent. The federal government and its employees are constantly associated with numerous holidays, long lunch breaks, laziness, stifling bureaucracy, and a general unwillingness to serve. A Pew Research poll shows that 13% of Americans trust their government. Surprisingly (or perhaps not), we trust our defense and homeland security departments more than the IRS, Federal Reserve, and Congress.

We can't institute any economic reform in this country, because said reform originates through Congress, and the media has its prying eyes all over the legislative chambers, eager to draw attention to pork-barrel spending bills with dubious pet projects (and both parties do this with unerring constancy). The Affordable Care Act, which politicians have cleverly exempted themselves from being signed into, is turning out to be a trillion-dollar boondoggle collapsing in on itself, benefiting a few but causing an unending nightmare for many. No constituent will ever trust their representative or Senator ever again to implement new taxes or spending projects.

And this is part of the illusion. They act this way so people don't think the system is capable of working. Capitalism and Democratic Republics are tools, they're ideas. For either to work well they require responsibility. And oh boy, do we have a doozy with responsibility here in America:
Boomers -> The only responsibility that matters is other peoples' responsibility.
Gen X -> Fuck responsibility.
Gen Y -> I don't know how to be responsible.
Gen Z -> What is responsibility?

View PostBlue Lightning, on 12 March 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

The only thing I favor is the Constitution. If the Tea Party backs something that is un constitutional, they lose me. I'm not trying to recruit anyone. I simply defend a party that is being bashed as not grassroots, when in my estimation it is grassroots.

What I have noticed is a cynicism by a lot of people on these boards that no political party or group will change anything and the government will stay corrupt. I disagree. I think that there is a real chance to make a change. this opportunity happens perhaps once a century. I said before it will take a libertarian movement to do it, that the two parties wont do it. But this is all just my opinion after all.

I am excited by the possibilities though.

And this is where you're wrong. I'm reminded of the Last Poets' piece: Niggas are scared of revolution. If you want real change, we need public hangings. We can sell hot dogs and beer and there will be music by FEAR. This is the American way. Somebody get a rope!

So many asses, so little time. Only a tight one can stop me on the dime. I'm a lover of every kind. The best surprises always sneak up from behind. I'm an Ass-man.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 12 March 2014 - 03:05 PM

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#80



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This post has been edited by Protected by Viper: 12 March 2014 - 02:27 PM

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#81

View PostJimmy, on 11 March 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

From an anarchists' perspective, what is the point of government if the attitude of the government is "Fuck helping each other"?

Provide an environment for economy to grow and protect citizens from threats? Not "I'm poor pay for my shit".

This post has been edited by ReaperMan: 12 March 2014 - 02:32 PM

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User is offline   Forge 

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#82

here's your budget. you figure where the government can save a few bucks
(source: http://nationalpriorities.org/ )

In fiscal year 2014, the federal government will spend around $3.8 trillion
around 22 percent – of the US. economy, as measured by Gross Domestic Product (GDP)
Posted Image


dividing up $1.15 trillion in discretionary spending
Posted Image


$2.4 trillion in mandatory spending
Posted Image


This pie chart shows how President Obama proposes dividing up the whole federal budget in fiscal 2014
Posted Image


Lawmakers have written hundreds of tax breaks into the federal tax code - for instance, special low tax rates on capital gains, and a deduction for home mortgage interest - in order to promote certain activities they deem beneficial to society. Those tax breaks function as a type of government spending. In fact, tax breaks are officially called tax expenditures within the federal government because, from the perspective of the government, they are no different from spending on any other government program. That's because, when the government issues a tax break, it chooses to give up tax revenue

expected to cost the federal government $1.18 trillion - slightly more than all discretionary spending in the same year.
Posted Image


basically the tea party wants to reduce or eliminate completely that 33% social security/unemployment piece of the total spending chart (which is $1.254 trillion) - close to the same number as all those tax breaks.
the fixes are simple, but getting them implemented in this bipartisan asshead factory is impossible

This post has been edited by Forge: 12 March 2014 - 03:21 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#83

View PostReaperMan, on 12 March 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Provide an environment for economy to grow and protect citizens from threats? Not "I'm poor pay for my shit".

On a base level isn't this helping each other?

And to play devil's advocate isn't protecting citizens from threats basically "I'm weak, protect my shit."?

So many asses, so little time. Only a tight one can stop me on the dime. I'm a lover of every kind. The best surprises always sneak up from behind. I'm an Ass-man.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 12 March 2014 - 03:07 PM

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User is offline   Mark. 

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#84

Yes it is, its one of the things we have asked government to do for us. Now if we could only get them out of the 22,000 other things we don't want them to take control of.
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#85

View PostJimmy, on 12 March 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

On a base level isn't this helping each other?

And to play devil's advocate isn't protecting citizens from threats basically "I'm weak, protect my shit."?

Yes, but don't you think there is a certain extent to which the government is suppose to help people?
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#86

That was my point. The whole point of government is absolving personal responsibility.

So many asses, so little time. Only a tight one can stop me on the dime. I'm a lover of every kind. The best surprises always sneak up from behind. I'm an Ass-man.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 12 March 2014 - 04:34 PM

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#87

View PostReaperMan, on 12 March 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Yes, but don't you think there is a certain extent to which the government is suppose to help people?

Sure. On a federal level to protect us from foreign threats. On a local level protect our personal property (ie the police). Also it is the federal governments job to pick federal judges, who help protect us using the law. But government has too many "agencies" and departments. They have their hand in too many cookie jars.

I do think we need an FDA, and they should crack down on corporate agro-farms and stuff like that, since bad food hurts all of us. But do we need a department of energy? Do we need a department of education? We got along fine before 1977, in fact school grades were much BETTER! Some of these programs costs way too much and should be scrapped. Also the Military is way too big, and I don't know why except to pay the military industrial complex. So many people have no clue what is going on. Shit, its like a Matrix movie. Too many voters choose the blue pill.

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster

This post has been edited by Blue Lightning: 12 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

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User is offline   ReaperMan 

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#88

View PostBlue Lightning, on 12 March 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

Do we need a department of education? We got along fine before 1977, in fact school grades were much BETTER!

1) School grades mean nothing.
2) Anything that the Fed's run, that involves human services, is usually sub par
3) There still needs to be a standard of education across the Nation regardless of who runs it.

This post has been edited by ReaperMan: 12 March 2014 - 05:37 PM

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User is offline   Forge 

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#89

View PostBlue Lightning, on 12 March 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

.... do we need a department of energy? Do we need a department of education? Some of these programs costs way too much and should be scrapped.

you're complaining about a meager 3% of the total budget expenditure?

i suppose you would gripe about anything that doesn't serve or directly benefit you.
typical attitude of a fat white guy sitting at his offshore bank account counting his tax-exempt assets

how about eliminating the tax breaks, close a bunch of overseas military bases, streamline the social security, health and welfare systems, and increase the budgets for those two departments so they're actually more efficient and effective?
they could be useful programs if they weren't so crippled

This post has been edited by Forge: 13 March 2014 - 03:31 AM

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#90

View PostForge, on 13 March 2014 - 03:16 AM, said:

you're complaining about a meager 3% of the total budget expenditure?

3% of the budget (which is a lot, have you seen the size of the budget?) plus another 2 programs of 3% and another 2 programs of 3%, together is 9% of the budget. 9% of the budget is a lot. So, let's do away with 6 programs.

View PostForge, on 13 March 2014 - 03:16 AM, said:

i suppose you would gripe about anything that doesn't serve or directly benefit you.
typical attitude of a fat white guy sitting at his offshore bank account counting his tax-exempt assets

Huh?

View PostForge, on 13 March 2014 - 03:16 AM, said:

how about eliminating the tax breaks, close a bunch of overseas military bases, streamline the social security, health and welfare systems, and increase the budgets for those two departments so they're actually more efficient and effective?
they could be useful programs if they weren't so crippled

I agree about eliminating tax breaks...this can be done by dumping the tax code and installing a national sales tax. It is the ONLY way you'll ever do it.

Close military bases. Yep I agree.

Streamline SS, health and welfare? Sure.

Dump more money into two programs which are useless? Nah. All the dept of education has turned into is a bank at this point. The federal government has no business making any kind of loans or grants. That stuff was always left to the states before, and to local business and banks. Now that the government is doing college loans and grants, we have a default by students of 1 trillion and growing. It aint working.

I'm still trying to figure out what the dept of energy does.

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster

This post has been edited by Blue Lightning: 13 March 2014 - 04:20 AM

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