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Is It Time To Spank Gearbox?

User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#31

View PostDukeNukem64, on 30 December 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

True. I read somewhere that Gearbox is selling the Duke Franchise.

Link?

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User is offline   DukeNukem64 

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#32

View PostAltered Reality, on 30 December 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Link?

If I had it I would've posted it. I read it yesterday, and we discussed it in the RotT chat.
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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#33

You don't understand business. Companies build up a repertoire of intellectual properties that they don't want competing with their own products. think about the Blood franchise, Atari/Infogrames bought it up so that it would go away. That's why they won't do anything with it or sell it. Its not that they don't know how to handle the intellectual property of Duke Nukem, in fact it's quite the opposite. Do you really think they don't know how much of a juggernaut the IP is? They know exactly what they are doing. Gearbox only appears to be incompetent.

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This post has been edited by Jimmy: 30 December 2013 - 12:50 PM

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User is online   Hendricks266 

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  #34

View PostJimmy, on 30 December 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

think about the Blood franchise, Atari/Infogrames bought it up so that it would go away.

Uh...

Atari owns the publishing rights because they inherited them from GT Interactive, the original publisher.

WB owns the IP because they bought Monolith Productions.
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User is offline   Mr. Tibbs 

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#35

View PostDukeNukem64, on 30 December 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

True. I read somewhere that Gearbox is selling the Duke Franchise... I hope it is Duke Nukem, mostly because Fred has some ideas that are fresh and new.


What? Fred's fresh idea's for Duke include what exactly?
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#36

Yeah ROTT still had a bit of noobish design in it, although a part of the game's problems is perhaps that they tried to stick to the original ROTT too much (which was an average game at best). If they are making a Duke game hopefully they can bring everything up a notch, and actually have some memorable enemy placement for a change instead of just having the guys spread randomly through the level.

For example everyone know plays Duke knows that as soon as you step into the bar in Red Light District, 3 pigcops enter the room; that's the stuff I'm talking about, enemy placement that sticks in your head. In fact that's probably one of the few things DNF did better than ROTT.

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This post has been edited by Plain Simple Garek: 30 December 2013 - 04:05 PM

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User is offline   xMobilemux 

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#37

View PostMr. Tibbs, on 30 December 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

What? Fred's fresh idea's for Duke include what exactly?

I think he's talking about when Frederick posted here that he'd like to see Duke go in the dark, serious and gritty direction. Kind of a waste of potential IMO cause I wanted Duke to be very different from most games/reboots today.

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This post has been edited by xMobilemux: 30 December 2013 - 04:48 PM

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#38

View PostxMobilemux, on 30 December 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

I think he's talking about when Frederick posted here that he'd like to see Duke go in the dark, serious and gritty direction. Kind of a waste of potential IMO cause I wanted Duke to be very different from most games/reboots today.

So... do you wish new Duke games would keep the same tone as DNF?

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 30 December 2013 - 04:52 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#39

Implying there are only two options to go with concerning Duke Nukem.

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User is offline   xMobilemux 

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#40

View PostAltered Reality, on 30 December 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

So... do you wish new Duke games would keep the same tone as DNF?

Nah, I want Duke to do something very different, as in something not seen before or not seen in a long time, like what Blood Dragon did, you must have seen how many people called that game what DNF should have been, if Duke just becomes dark, gritty and serious then he'll be just another one in the bunch while Blood Dragon and it's inevitable sequels do what Duke should be doing.

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User is offline   Commando Nukem 

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#41

I'll say again what i've said before. I think the best balance for a new Duke game in that regard is to make the world dark and gritty, but Duke be the color cast upon that dark and gritty world. I remember how Duke3D felt back when I first laid eyes on it. Making that be the reality. Making some invasion zone that is akin to Terminator or many of those 80s action/slasher films where the world always felt dank, dark, and oppressive, and then injecting Duke's personality into it, to me, sounds the best way to go. It's not about making it all serious, so much as giving it a real atmosphere. DNF did not have any kind of atmosphere (and frankly I didn't even feel like there was much of an "alien invasion" going on. It felt very contained, and not nearly as chaotic and frentic as it should have.)

I think xMobilemux has the right idea. Blood Dragon, aside from riding the 80s cheese, had a very good sense of atmosphere and character. Sure, it's not exactly in-depth, and Duke wouldn't need to be either, but that level of atmosphere, and hard-hitting one liners is what makes it strong. Everything else, as far as game design is concerned, frankly, should be very easy for Gearbox to figure out. It's been said so many times what went wrong with DNF.

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User is online   Hendricks266 

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  #42

View PostxMobilemux, on 30 December 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

dark, serious and gritty

It's just another day at the office for CIA agent Doug Newman. During a routine experiment involving the combination of anabolic steroids and a mysterious "Vitamin X", Doug's life is forever changed when he becomes Duke Nukem. Not long after, the CIA uncovers a terrorist plot of extraterrestrial origins. Battling political dissent, nuclear proliferation, and the forces of evil, our hero rises to save the world and kick some ass.

He'll be back in time for Oprah.

Duke Begins.

Coming 20XX.
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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#43

View PostHendricks266, on 30 December 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

It's just another day at the office for CIA agent Doug Newman. During a routine experiment involving the combination of anabolic steroids and a mysterious "Vitamin X", Doug's life is forever changed when he becomes Duke Nukem. Not long after, the CIA uncovers a terrorist plot of extraterrestrial origins. Battling political dissent, nuclear proliferation, and the forces of evil, our hero rises to save the world and kick some ass.

He'll be back in time for Oprah.

Duke Begins.

Coming 20XX.

I was thinking more like "Duke Nukem, a prototype supersoldier, genetically engineered at Area 51 by the EDF. His blood has been infused with nuclear-powered nanobots that regenerate part of his health every time he does something manly. He used to be in the EDF, and he reached the rank of captain before getting booted out for beating up a particularly stupid general. He retired into an apartment in LA, where he became a fan of Johnny O' Lenoman because he had nothing better to do. One day, the CIA calls him because a mad scientist who goes by the name of Doctor Proton wants to take over LA. What will Duke do?"

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
-
There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 31 December 2013 - 04:14 AM

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User is offline   Micky C 

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#44

I don't know if people are joking about how Duke should start off as a normal guy or genetically engineered or whatever, but IMHO he should be (or become) awesome on his own if he ever wasn't in the first place. Otherwise it takes away from him being super masculine. "I was born to rock the world" Posted Image

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#45

View PostPlain Simple Garek, on 31 December 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

I don't know if people are joking about how Duke should start off as a normal guy or genetically engineered or whatever

I'm not. I suggested Duke to be genetically engineered to show that he was never a normal guy, but he was always more, always one of a kind, since the day he was born.

View PostPlain Simple Garek, on 31 December 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

"I was born to rock the world" Posted Image

Yes, literally. Or better: "I was created to rock the world".

I would also like to see a plot twist revealing that
Spoiler


If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 31 December 2013 - 05:34 AM

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User is online   Radar 

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#46

I think anyone still trying to make a decent Duke game should lay off the origin story.
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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#47

View PostElement of Kindness, on 31 December 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

I think anyone still trying to make a decent Duke game should lay off the origin story.

Why?

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.
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User is online   Radar 

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#48

Because these ideas sound retarded.


EDIT: Really, I love you all. It's not that the concept itself is bad, but Duke has had it tough for so long that it would be nice if the next game didn't rely on something so risky, because given Duke's track record, it will fail hard. How about just focusing on some good gameplay and level design? :)

This post has been edited by Element of Kindness: 31 December 2013 - 10:43 AM

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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

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#49

I also do not see a clamoring necessity to learn Duke's origin story. That doesn't seem anywhere near as important as simply making a good game.

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#50

View PostElement of Kindness, on 31 December 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Duke has had it tough for so long

Which is exactly why the franchise needs a drastic change of direction. Stop using parodies as crutches for the character of Duke, and show why and how he can stand on his own. Make something that will make players open their eyes in awe, instead of quietly nodding because they recognized a reference.
TDWCM already showed that the character of Doctor Proton can be made to stand on his own by making him sound smart and threatening, despite all the people in the 3DRealms forum who had assumed he would just be a parody of Doctor Evil. The same overhaul must be done to Duke, to lift him from the current state of "unfunny parody of old clichés" to "awesome character in his own right".

I don't know the specific meaning you gave to "gameplay" in your post, because that word is so generic that it can literally mean anything even remotely related to a game, but one-liners and hordes of enemies are not enough to make a good Duke game.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
-
There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 31 December 2013 - 11:26 AM

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User is offline   xMobilemux 

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#51

The origin story root is another wasted opportunity for Duke and just a real shit idea in general.
Look at Devil May Cry and Tomb Raider, they are the worst offenders of dark and gritty origin stories, their full focus is on their story telling and massive character development for 2 characters that you never wanted to care about in the first place and never will, while their gameplay and level design are streamlined to hell and back. The last thing the Duke Nukem franchise needs is to become a show and tell, especially in the state it's in, Element of Kindness has it right that the next game should focus on it's gameplay and level design.

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#52

View PostxMobilemux, on 31 December 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

2 characters that you never wanted to care about in the first place and never will

Well, what do you know? You got that exactly right. I never wanted to care about those characters and never will, which is why I never played any of those games and never will.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.
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#53

View PostAltered Reality, on 31 December 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Well, what do you know? You got that exactly right. I never wanted to care about those characters and never will, which is why I never played any of those games and never will.

You get that I'm talking about their reboots and not the main series right? The original series were all about making good games, the gameplay of both series were top notch and the characters were fun to play as and watch.
Their reboots have turned them into serious, relateable bores where full focus is serious character development, story and visuals while gameplay is down in the dumps.
Duke Nukem going in that direction will be worse than DNF Critical Mass.

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This post has been edited by xMobilemux: 31 December 2013 - 02:20 PM

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#54

View PostxMobilemux, on 31 December 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

You get that I'm talking about their reboots and not the main series right?

Yes. And I'm talking about the entire running of those franchises. Main canon, reboots and all.

View PostxMobilemux, on 31 December 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Their reboots have turned them into serious, relateable bores where full focus is serious character development, story and visuals while gameplay is down in the dumps.

Well, guess what? I don't care, because I never cared about those characters in the first place, so I don't see why I should suddenly start caring now. They can do whatever they want to those characters and I still won't care. I won't buy those games, I won't warez them, I won't borrow them and I won't even complain for whatever they do to Lara or Dante or whomever. That's how much I don't care about those characters.

View PostxMobilemux, on 31 December 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Duke Nukem going in that direction will be worse than DNF Critical Mass.

DNF and Critical Mass were serious and story-driven? That's news to me.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 31 December 2013 - 02:31 PM

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#55

View PostAltered Reality, on 31 December 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Well, guess what? I don't care, because I never cared about those characters in the first place, so I don't see why I should suddenly start caring now.

You're not supposed to care, just like with Duke Nukem, you're not supposed to care about them, you're just supposed to have fun with the characters.
Take Ash in Army of Darkness, do you care about him or just love and enjoy what he does?

View PostAltered Reality, on 31 December 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

DNF and Critical Mass were serious and story-driven? That's news to me.

I'm saying if Duke goes in a direction that favors story, character development and visuals instead of good gameplay and level design, it'll be a shit game.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by xMobilemux: 31 December 2013 - 02:33 PM

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#56

View PostxMobilemux, on 31 December 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

You're not supposed to care, just like with Duke Nukem, you're not supposed to care about them, you're just supposed to have fun with the characters.

With Duke Nukem I always cared about the character, because he was such a badass. That's why I'm a Duke Nukem fan since 1996.
To the polar opposite, there's Serious Sam. I never cared at all about Serious Sam because the main character is a ripoff of Duke Nukem, and the games are just shoot shoot shoot, unlike Duke games that also have environmental interactivity and... yes, a more developed story. Games like Duke3D and DNMP have a more developed story than Serious Sam.
From your avatar, anyone can tell you're a fan of Blood Dragon. I am too, because it's less linear and more story-driven than Serious Sam. Blood Dragon offers the best of both worlds, Serious Sam(e) most definitely does not.

View PostxMobilemux, on 31 December 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Take Ash in Army of Darkness, do you care about him or just love and enjoy what he does?

Neither. I laugh at what he does, because Army Of Darkness is a horror comedy. Just like I laugh at what Austin Powers and Doctor Evil do because the Austin Powers movies are spy comedies. Instead, I genuinely like Doctor Proton in TDWCM because he is threatening. Had he been goofy like Doctor Evil, I would not have cared about him at all, nor would I have laughed at what he did, because it would have been cliché.

View PostxMobilemux, on 31 December 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

I'm saying if Duke goes in a direction that favors story, character development and visuals instead of good gameplay and level design, it'll be a shit game.

And I'm saying that I want a story and character development in addition to interactivity and over-the-top situations, not instead of. I agree with part of what you say: games are supposed to be fun, which is why a game that shuns fun situations and focuses only on story development is bad. But if a game shuns any kind of story and character development and focuses only on repetitive shoot shoot shoot situations, it gets stale and clichéd. What I want is a game that focuses on both aspects.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 31 December 2013 - 03:01 PM

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User is offline   xMobilemux 

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#57

You can care about Duke as a badass and a video game character because that's what he is, but the way the TR and DMC reboots did their characters was they made you care about them as real people instead of badass characters, which is shit when you want to see your favorite badasses again, telling the Duke origin story is a real shit idea, because the origin story will be all about character development and making Duke Nukem a real person instead of being a good game with good gameplay.

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#58

View PostxMobilemux, on 31 December 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

telling the Duke origin story is a real shit idea, because the origin story will be all about character development and making Duke Nukem a real person instead of being a good game with good gameplay.

Not if the origin story shows that he was never a common person to begin with, and that he enjoys his being superior. In that case, character development would mean that we would see the world adapting to the presence of Duke, with common people reacting to the badass things he does and starting to idolize him. Wouldn't you like to see that?

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
-
There is no darkness, only the absence of light.
There is no cold, only the absence of heat.
There is no faith, only the absence of logic.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 31 December 2013 - 03:07 PM

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User is offline   xMobilemux 

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#59

View PostAltered Reality, on 31 December 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Not if the origin story shows that he was never a common person to begin with, and that he enjoys his being superior. In that case, character development would mean that we would see the world adapting to the presence of Duke, with common people reacting to the badass things he does and starting to idolize him. Wouldn't you like to see that?

No I wouldn't, I have the Duke Nukem I love, I don't wanna see him rebooted or see how he became who he is because I already know, he became who he is from being in the army.
I and a lot if not most of the Duke community just want to see Duke again doing what he does best in a game that has great gameplay and level design.
The idea that I like is what Commando Nukem had where Duke was seen as a has been in society and has been forgotten, but then he is needed once again and returns, that's all I need story wise for Duke, it's not a bullshit origin story or something that would waste time focusing on character development, it would be the same Duke we all know and love returning in a story that has potential and wouldn't need to overshadow gameplay.

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#60

View PostAltered Reality, on 31 December 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Not if the origin story shows that he was never a common person to begin with, and that he enjoys his being superior.


Sounds like an ego trip just like DNF. Besides, part of the appeal of the Duke character (for me at least) is that Duke is in fact, a common person. In a genre full of space marines, power-armored super-soldiers, ninjas, and elite black ops task forces, here's this motherfucker wearing jeans and a tank top capable of doing everything those guys can do and even more in some cases.

I don't see the point of a Duke Nukem backstory, we already know everything we need to about him. He's a steroid-abusing badass who carries an arsenal of high-power weapons and one-liners, with which he uses to save the world (especially the babes) on multiple occasions. Hell, the Duke Nukem wiki even has a lengthy biography section on him.

Also I agree with everything xMobilemux said in the above post.
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