[PikaCommando]

Some of you may have noticed, some of you may have not but I'm still gonna post it anyway.

Duke has an Energy Leech inside his aquarium:

Look at this action figure.

It's that of a dragon. But we don't see any dragons in DNF now, do we? Although, it seems a little bit familiar...


As a bonus, feel free to compare how much Las Vegas changed in a decade.

2001

2003

2003 another view

2006

2006 another view

2011

UPDATE
Duke built an inaccessible second floor for no apparent reason:

Here are two things I never noticed until I looked up....

Saint Duke and the Alien Queen

The Creation of Duke

BONUS:
Duke smoking a cigar. He's Duke so nothing bad could possibly happen to him, right?

Wrong.

What's wrong with you, Duke?

Note that normally he can only see from his waist down.

Here is a somewhat more realistic viewpoint.

BONUS 2:
Check out how much the mothership has changed throughout the decade!

2001 (assumed)

2003

2006

2011

[X-Vector]

PikaCommando, on 12 November 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

As a bonus, feel free to compare how much Las Vegas changed in a decade.

2001:
http://i.imgur.com/EDiCuVa.png

2011:
http://cloud-4.steam...75.resizedimage

[Micky C]

Didn't notice the energy leech thing in the aquarium. Now I know that we all wanted DNF to be filled with eastereggs like that and interactivity, but it probably would have been a lot better if they took the time and effort put into all that and invested it in actually making the game good.

And although the 2001 Las Vegas is kind of pixelated so we have to fill in the blanks a bit, the 2001 version seems a lot more detailed and atmospheric then the version we got, and somehow also seems bigger too. Not only does the daytime version look like crap, but somehow seeing the 2001 version side by side makes the 2011 version look unfinished. I mean it just looks so simple and dull.

[OpenMaw]

That's a side effect of them kinda being morons. Las Vegas during the day does look incredibly dull. There's a lot of pale salty brown everywhere, the sun leaves little room for contrasts or anything. At night, the city looks amazing. Why they chose to do that (and the reasons they gave for doing it being utterly stupid) I will never understand.

[necroslut]

Commando Nukem, on 13 November 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

That's a side effect of them kinda being morons. Las Vegas during the day does look incredibly dull. There's a lot of pale salty brown everywhere, the sun leaves little room for contrasts or anything. At night, the city looks amazing. Why they chose to do that (and the reasons they gave for doing it being utterly stupid) I will never understand.

Yeah, changing Vegas from night to day is probably the most stupid decision they made after two weapons, regen health and no open levels. Especially with the shitty DOF filter.

[Malgon]

Agreed. Las Vegas in the day isn't anything special, and defeats the purpose of using it as a location. Why they thought it would be a good idea is beyond me.

[Silentwulf]

After visiting Vegas in the past, I couldn't agree more.
Just be glad they didn't go ape-shit on the Bloom o.o

[PikaCommando]

My guess is to save time and effort to make the lightings and special effects for nighttime. Vegas during the day looks dull so all they need is to use brushes or low-detailed model to finish it quick.

EDIT: Updated first post + 2003 and 2006 Las Vegas as well as mothership design comparisons.

[Silentwulf]

PikaCommando, on 15 November 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

My guess is to save time and effort to make the lightings and special effects for nighttime. Vegas during the day looks dull so all they need is to use brushes or low-detailed model to finish it quick.

EDIT: Updated first post + 2003 and 2006 Las Vegas as well as mothership design comparisons.

That's probably true. Also, the risk of running with an outdoor, nighttime environment, could risk the game looking too dark. Pulling off proper and effective lighting would have been tough...especially in the engine they were using o.o'

[MusicallyInspired]

It looked fine in the split-second snapshot of the Christmas teaser.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Silentwulf, on 15 November 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Pulling off proper and effective lighting would have been tough...especially in the engine they were using o.o'

After 12 years in development, there simply is no excuse.

[Silentwulf]

Comrade Major, on 15 November 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

After 12 years in development, there simply is no excuse.

The work put into DNF sounded more like purgatory as opposed to development XD
Can't imagine how many times the project got a reboot.

[Person of Color]

Three if you include the fact it was originally a 2D side scroller.

[PikaCommando]

Hmm, let's play the guessing game! Luckily, all DNFs after the sidescroller seem to have the same plot layout so far.

1. 1997 DNF (sidescroller), takes place in California/Proton Island featuring Dr. Proton bombing California away from the mainland and renaming it Proton Island.
2. 1998 Quake 2 DNF, featuring Dr. Proton joining forces with aliens and turning the military into Army Ants (the ants could be the aliens themselves though).
3. 1999-2002 Unreal DNF, featuring Octabrains trying to re-takeover Earth by infecting/mutating humans. (Dr. Proton may be involved in the plot)
4. 2003-2004 Unreal 2 DNF, featuring the same plot as 2001 with of course some minor changes.
5. 2005-2007 Unreal 2.5 DNF, the plot merge between 2001/2003 and something close to final, but removing mutated humans and bringing back the enemy and weapons from DN3D for "old times sake".
6. 2007-2009 Unreal 2.5 DNF, a plot very close the final DNF, but with some minor/major differences.
7. 2010-2011 Unreal 2.5 DNF, the one we got.

Also, I just realized something. The reason why DNF is set during the day is because there's a midnight talk show :/ Like, I remember that part where fangirls are outside the door it was nighttime behind that door (the skybox in the initial starting area was daytime but that's because of lazyness/oversight). Anyway, by the time you fight the Alien Mothership it's already dawn, so that's why the whole Vegas levels are daylight.

Also, this plot takes place somewhere in 2006-2009. So yeah, all in all there were at least 7 different DNF in the world.

[Micky C]

There's still much debate and conflicting reports on what version of Unreal DNF last used, but the fact of the matter is the engine was rewritten so much, so many times that we shouldn't really think of it as an unreal engine.

For example I wouldn't call the 2003 version unreal 2. The dynamic lighting model was something they added in themselves, and the code had diverged at this point.

If they really wanted a night time Vegas I'm sure they could have pulled it off, especially with the manpower gearbox claimed to put into it near the end.

And let's not consider the side scroller a version of DNF. Just because DNF took the name from when it was cancelled doesnt mean it's meant to be the same game.

[Lunick]

Micky C, on 15 November 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

There's still much debate and conflicting reports on what version of Unreal DNF last used, but the fact of the matter is the engine was rewritten so much, so many times that we shouldn't really think of it as an unreal engine.

Duke Nukem Forever used a heavily modified Unreal Engine 1, specifically the latest builds like Build 613. But really, you're right in saying that it was rewritten so much that it wasn't unreally Unreal

[Micky C]

Aren't there reports that they added some bits and pieces of Unreal 2 that they found handy? Or are you saying 613 is the absolute latest point beyond which they used nothing?

So just to reaffirm, the daytime Vegas decision was nothing to do with the engine. If they could do it in 2001 they could do it in 2011... it's just a matter of them making crappy decisions like like with the rest of the damn game.

[Lunick]

Micky C, on 16 November 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

Aren't there reports that they added some bits and pieces of Unreal 2 that they found handy? Or are you saying 613 is the absolute latest point beyond which they used nothing?

http://forums.gearbo...09&postcount=33

These are the only sources cited based on... George Brusselsprouts.

[PikaCommando]

Actually I think I'm out of things to find in My Digs. Too bad.

[OpenMaw]

Yeah, I'm not sure why some folks here are saying the game would have been too hard to light for night-time. As if that's a legit excuse, because guess what fellas? The stuff from the big 2009 leak demonstrates the battle-lord battle set at the proper night time, with light beams moving in the background and everything. So they actually had it at night back in 2009, then during the development, they decided to make it brighter.

Freaking ridiculous.

[TerminX]

The engine DNF shipped on should have been able to do stuff that looked at least as good at the Rainbow Six: Vegas games.

Real damn shame. Yatta and I used to play the first one co-op and imagine that DNF was going to look something like that. What a disappointment...

[PikaCommando]

Hey, I say that my 'Vegas takes place in daylight because it's right after midnight a midnight show and Duke passing out after a morning battle with the Mothership' theory is pretty legit.

I'm too lazy to take a screenshot now, but the 'Neon Signs' unlock in My Digs takes the neon signs directly from this 1999 screenshot.

Can I also have the Battlelord footage Commando Nukem was talking about?

[Micky C]

Dude think about what you're saying. You're trying to convince us that the developers made a HUGE change to the game's graphical and atmospheric/tonal detriment just for the sake of a simple plot point... in DNF? I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. If they really wanted to make it night time, they could have easily changed things around, especially considering how cheap, crap, and last minute-y the story was. Besides, there was evidence of that late night talk show in conjunction with night Vegas in the 2006 trailer, as well as it being nighttime despite the 4 hour sleep in the demo reel.
This is the leaked footage/demo reel everyone's talking about. Such high hopes for the game back then...

What's interesting to note is that the Cycloid Emperor stadium battle used to be during the day. It's like they switched it around for some reason.

[Mr. Tibbs]

The Triptych guys switched Vegas from night to daytime essentially to differentiate DNF from the competition. Chris DeSimone mentioned it in one of 2K's DNF podcasts. Since you can see more of Vegas during the daytime, DNF would stand out. It was clearly the wrong decision as it's less atmospheric and people want to see those gaudy lights as it's all part of the sleazy appeal! Dusty outskirts look cool during the day, but Vegas, especially DNF's rushed version, looks weak.

http://www.dukenukem...ranscript4.html

CHRIS D: Well, like I said before there are several different locations and mainly one of them is Vegas and of course if you’re in Vegas, you want to see a casino. And of course, in our game, Duke owns a casino so you’ll get to see what kind of a casino Duke would actually own. As well you’ll also get to see the outside and there was actually a little bit of fighting going on between what to show as far as the exterior of Vegas: should it be at night or should it be during the day? And we felt it actually looked better during the day because we could get better results from the way it looked ‘cause at night you just don’t see as much. And I know that people want to see Vegas at night, but we kind of went the other route with that. And then we also have a lot of terrain maps as well as the Hoover Dam, which of course you know is near Vegas. There’s also, I don’t know if I can say it-- there’s also kind of like an alien environment which the gamer will eventually see. I’m not going to reveal too much.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Mr. Tibbs, on 16 November 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

The Triptych guys switched Vegas from night to daytime to differentiate DNF from the competition.

That is hugely ironic.

[Mr. Tibbs]

http://www.dukenukem...ranscript1.html David Riegel:

Quote

I think that differentiates some of the elements that have survived over time too. We used to have more general, generic interactable objects and over time it was like "well is picking up a pencil, really Duke?" I mean being able to throw it around and do stuff. Or is it more of a cool thing to lift weights and do that stuff. Just as two examples, that kind of thing.

[Micky C]

Just goes to show they have no idea what Duke is about. Part of the reason Duke 3D was great was because of the "general, generic" interactable objects. I'm sure they would have taken it a lot further if technology had permitted it at the time.

[Mr. Tibbs]

Micky C, on 16 November 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Just goes to show they have no idea what Duke is about. Part of the reason Duke 3D was great was because of the "general, generic" interactable objects. I'm sure they would have taken it a lot further if technology had permitted it at the time.

It sucks. At one point 3D Realms did know what made Duke special but for whatever reason (internal struggles, tech/level atrophy, etc...) they ended up removing so many aspects that made the series unique. All the stuff up till 2006 looked brilliant. There was a time when people were so excited to be working on the game. In the end, 3D Realms compromised too much and created a game that didn't appeal to either Duke 3d vets or modern shooters fans. Duke lost his identity.

Is there any chance whatsoever some early builds might surface down the line?

[TerminX]

What generic objects does Duke3D really let you interact with, though? Everything you do can be tied to the "manly" thing Duke has going on... you hit on women, you take a piss, you play pool, you try to make a booty call, etc. Beta versions even let you look at the porn mags on the shelves in E1L2. None of that is really generic, so I sort of see the point in removing some of that generalized stuff. I mean, picking up a pencil that's on a desk by itself? What can you even DO with that, stab somebody with it for 5 damage points? It's a hell of a lot of extra stuff to program and animate for a game that was already horrifically behind schedule and not coming out as it should have.

[Mr. Tibbs]

It's fun to explore. Picking up a pencil and throwing it around is a nice reward for exploring the environment. It's a cool distraction. When an ability or upgrade is tied to an object, they kinda become essential to seek out. Deus Ex 1's props made the world feel real. Is it essential to the experience that I can throw a basketball around Unatco or break house plants on npcs? No, but it's memorable and adds texture to the world. I understand their intentions but having a ton of interactive objects would've, at the very least, made Duke stand out.