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"This game is what DNF should have been..."  "List yours!"

User is offline   necroslut 

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#1

We've all heard the phrase "This is what Duke Nukem Forever should have been" more than one time. But which game(s) do you think are what DNF should have been, or does what DNF should have done?

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User is offline   Micky C 

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#2

Well Serious Sam 3 did for that series what DNF should have done for Duke 3D: made a modern game with things like the tone and core gameplay of the previous games relatively intact, while expanding on it a little. (Although most people seem to agree that the next game needs to be something really fresh).

Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon got the humor spot on, and that's also the tone I'd like to have seen in DNF. The gameplay of the missions themselves is also fairly similar to what should have been in DNF, although with a little less QTE style special moves. Although there are no health packs per se, Rex Colt can still take a decent amount of damage which is fantastic.

And of course Rise of the Triad 2013 tried to pretty much remake the original ROTT as closely as possible while still keeping it a modern game, so it would have been nice if DNF had been a reboot and gone down the same path, but obviously with higher quality.

Those are the obvious ones.

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User is offline   Mr. Tibbs 

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#3

I think if Duke had been what was initially promised, Duke 3D with the storytelling conventions of Half Life and tons of interactivity, it would've been a huge success. Keeping all the great things about Duke 3D and just expanding upon them, adding a throughline for the campaign that gives the player just enough motivation to keep going without getting in the way of the action, and introducing a few characters and alien threats that would've expanded the Duke universe. I also would've loved to see that kinda of absurd creativity that Duke 3D had in spades. Remember the first time you used the shrink ray or saw your bloody footprints, used the jetpack or discovered a secret that changed the way you navigated the level? Those were the moments that made Duke 3D so special for me. It felt both creative and consistent. DNF definitely needed that stuff.

I think a lot of DNF (2011) problems came down to it's atmosphere. The tone was off. I quite like the enemy designs and behaviours for the most part, but it's just too bright and kinda GI Joe-ish. Not to beat a dead horse but it should've been more like the 2001 trailer. A dark adventure that knows when and where to have fun. To be fair, that was like two minutes of material, but it's telling how much that preview has resonated with people throughout the years. That preview had more goofy stuff in it than the shipping game (riding the donkey, jet skis) but it presented them in a badass way.
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User is offline   Fox 

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#4

Duke Nukem Forever simply didn't had what made Duke 3D so popular. To quote wikipedia:

"It was released to major acclaim; reviewers praised the interactivity of the environment, level design, gameplay and unique risqué humor (a mix of pop-culture satire and lampooning of over-the-top Hollywood action heroes)."

And basically DNF wasn't remarkable for any of these aspects, especially the level design.
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User is online   DukeNukem64 

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#5

Serious Sam 3. I honestly think, if you put Duke in SS3 most people would love it. It's really cool game tbh. You can find a voucher with 90 % OFF. As Micky said, modern tone but still remains faithful to SS series (hardcore fans would disagree, like most Duke fans would always think the next Duke misses some stuff that made 3D so cool) ;P
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User is offline   Hank 

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#6

DNF should have been released in 1999, using Quake 2 engine. There is no way any game can match and fulfill well over a decade of hype. 3D Realms should by now be working on Duke VII.

I'm into GTA 5 right now, and it suits my style of play. But I can't really say DNF should have been another GTA, 'cause then the critics (after 15 years of making a game) would have complained it's only like GTA.

Hindsight is always 20/20

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This post has been edited by Hank: 18 September 2013 - 05:35 PM

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User is online   X-Vector 

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#7

View PostDeeper Micky, on 18 September 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Those are the obvious ones.


None of those games come remotely close to the game DNF was originally supposed to be, the game I'd been waiting for ever since I picked a copy of the November 1997 PC Gamer off the shelf.

Posted Image

To answer necroslut's question, I don't think there is anything out there truly resembling 3D Realms' original ambition, although I see elements of it in past releases:

- Deus Ex (original): interactivity and freedom from strict linearity.
- GTA Vice City: balance between humour and grit; satirical dry wit with sexual innuendo avoiding the juvenile, wannabe edgy 'zaniness' that eventually embarrassed DNF (and to a slightly lesser extent the Saints Row games), neon-lit night scenes, sense of discovery.
- Crysis 2: some of the settings and scripting, such as the collapsing skyscrapers and various alien invasion scenes (e.g. Unsafe Haven).
- Half-Life 2: overall variety in world design and general feel of adventure, leaving control in the hands of the player during scripted events (Valve seems to be pretty much the only developer still fighting this particular good fight these days).

This post has been edited by X-Vector: 19 September 2013 - 04:11 AM

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User is offline   Micky C 

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#8

View PostX-Vector, on 19 September 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

None of those games come remotely close to the game DNF was originally supposed to be, the game I'd been waiting for ever since I picked a copy of the November 1997 PC Gamer off the shelf.


I was answering his part of the question which asked "what DNF should have done." As in how a game should progress a game series forward, more or less. Of course Serious Sam and Rise of the Triad should play nothing like how DNF should have been. Blood dragon is probably the closest of the 3 in terms of gameplay if you added a touch more enemy variety, and removed the open-world aspect and a lot of the special attacks.

Btw, Crysis 2 was incredibly repetitive. I gave up out of boredom about half way through because it just felt like one fairly generic city block after another. I don't care if it's meant to look like New York or not (I've never been there) but the level design really dragged it down. The gunplay itself felt repetitive too.
DNF on the other hand would have had superb and highly varied level design, with a huge arsenal of diverse weapons which you could all carry at the same time Posted Image

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User is online   X-Vector 

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#9

View PostDeeper Micky, on 19 September 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

I was answering his part of the question which asked "what DNF should have done."


I know, it's just that I personally don't give a toss about any of the (semi-)recent "back to the nineties" titles and I cringe every time someone mentions that DNF should have turned out like "standard old school shooter X".
It just makes me wonder how many people still remember what the original premise was and how incredibly exciting a prospect it seemed (at least to me).

Quote

Btw, Crysis 2 was incredibly repetitive.


That's why I only mentioned specific elements from that game; I bought it during a Steam sale and I can't even bring myself to play it due to the visual softening that its post-processing AA introduces (it's maddingly resilient against attempts to force proper AA and AF) and I sincerely dislike the effect of the SSAO settings.
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User is online   Tea Monster 

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#10

View PostDukeNukem64, on 18 September 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Serious Sam 3. I honestly think, if you put Duke in SS3 most people would love it. It's really cool game tbh. You can find a voucher with 90 % OFF. As Micky said, modern tone but still remains faithful to SS series (hardcore fans would disagree, like most Duke fans would always think the next Duke misses some stuff that made 3D so cool) ;P


Funny you should mention that.

One of the things about this is that the character of Duke works much better in SS3 than in his own sodding game. :)


This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 20 September 2013 - 01:38 AM

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User is offline   leilei 

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#11

I thought SiN was that spiritual Duke3D successor - even back then, despite lacking the tactical weapons. It still had interactive environments and Levelord. Ritual did the best they could within that buggy and overly constrained id Tech 2 engine. They even shoved colored lighting into the software renderer!

Serious Sam 3... really?

Posted Image

This post has been edited by leilei: 20 September 2013 - 04:49 AM

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User is offline   Player Lin 

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#12

View Postleilei, on 20 September 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

I thought SiN was that spiritual Duke3D successor - even back then, despite lacking the tactical weapons. It still had interactive environments and Levelord. Ritual did the best they could within that buggy and overly constrained id Tech 2 engine. They even shoved colored lighting into the software renderer!


I like SiN and SiN:Episode 1 in some degrees(I heard SiN 1 had serious loading time problems at the time of its release, but lucky I did not played SiN at that time so I don't care.)
But too bad Ritual just dead after SiN:EP1 didn't sold enough to save them. Someone should brought this IP from that casual game company... :)



View Postleilei, on 20 September 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Serious Sam 3... really?


Except "dealing with shitload of monsters" part I guess. :)

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User is offline   necroslut 

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#13

View Postleilei, on 20 September 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

I thought SiN was that spiritual Duke3D successor - even back then, despite lacking the tactical weapons. It still had interactive environments and Levelord. Ritual did the best they could within that buggy and overly constrained id Tech 2 engine. They even shoved colored lighting into the software renderer!

Serious Sam 3... really?

If I had to pick one myself (other than Shadow Warrior (but I guess it doesn't really count) it would be Sin. It got a bit worse towards the end sadly, but still it went further with interactivity than maybe any game.
Such a shame Sin Episodes never got beyond the first episode. Despite its flaws - mainly wanting to be Half-Life 2 a little too much - I've replayed it so many times I've lost count.

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User is online   Tea Monster 

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#14

View Postleilei, on 20 September 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Serious Sam 3... really?

You mean a game about a wisecracking badass who goes around dispatching legions of over-the-top monsters with an arsenal that you could use to take over a medium sized country? Basically, yeah.
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User is offline   hismasterplan 

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#15

Blood Dragon satisfied my itch for a Duke 3D sequel. All it pretty much needed was Duke Nukem and a city setting. Although Blood Dragon's tone was actually similar to Duke Nukem Forever, just less juvenile.

This post has been edited by hismasterplan: 20 September 2013 - 12:36 PM

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User is offline   leilei 

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#16

View PostTea Monster, on 20 September 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

You mean a game about a wisecracking badass who goes around dispatching legions of over-the-top monsters with an arsenal that you could use to take over a medium sized country? Basically, yeah.

Is that what it takes to be a "Duke Nukem sequel"- a protagonist with a mouth in a Hell Revealed scenario, never mind anything else?

That's certainly not the Duke I know.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by leilei: 21 September 2013 - 03:42 AM

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User is offline   djdori11 

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#17

Definitely Saints Row IV.
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User is online   Tea Monster 

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#18

Yeah, but 'The Duke we know" hasn't been seen since 1996. I was making the sad point that a model swap for another game has more 'Dukeness' than the actual sequel.
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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#19

1999, actually.

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User is online   DukeNukem64 

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#20

Duke Manhattan is a must-buy if you haven't bought it. Wait for sales and then buy Platformer pack. It's surely worth the 5 $ guys. I love MP, play it every time i travel somewhere in a train ;)
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User is offline   Metalwolf 

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#21

View PostDukeNukem64, on 23 September 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Duke Manhattan is a must-buy if you haven't bought it. Wait for sales and then buy Platformer pack. It's surely worth the 5 $ guys. I love MP, play it every time i travel somewhere in a train ;)
I would go even one further...

Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project is what Duke Nukem Forever should have been. Cornball humor against a serious background, with ladies that actually fit the moniker 'babes' who Duke rescues while being totally badass.

All the while taking down pigcops that looked legitimately like they could kick your ass (wearing black SWAT armor while sporting semi-automatics), going though a grimy New York City setting, and having a bunch of guns (not 2, not 4, a bunch!)

THAT is the game Duke Nukem Forever should have been.

This:
"There are only two ways this will end. And in both of them, you die."

Not this:

"Hurr hurr, I can see my dick from here!"

Blarghfh
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User is offline   djdori11 

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#22

View PostMetalwolf, on 23 September 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

I would go even one further...

Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project is what Duke Nukem Forever should have been. Cornball humor against a serious background, with ladies that actually fit the moniker 'babes' who Duke rescues while being totally badass.

All the while taking down pigcops that looked legitimately like they could kick your ass (wearing black SWAT armor while sporting semi-automatics), going though a grimy New York City setting, and having a bunch of guns (not 2, not 4, a bunch!)

THAT is the game Duke Nukem Forever should have been.

This:
"There are only two ways this will end. And in both of them, you die."

Not this:

"Hurr hurr, I can see my dick from here!"

I would go even one further...
Duke Nukem: Zero Hour is in some ways what Duke Nukem Forever should have been. It kept the same gameplay style of Duke Nukem 3D\64 had while improving the graphics and adding\changing a couple of mechanics in the game.
The story is also right after Duke Nukem 3D and was overall quite interesting and well done with the time traveling.. Heck you get to kill Jack the Ripper right after he murders his last victim...
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User is offline   hismasterplan 

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#23

View Postdjdori11, on 24 September 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

I would go even one further...
Duke Nukem: Zero Hour is in some ways what Duke Nukem Forever should have been. It kept the same gameplay style of Duke Nukem 3D\64 had while improving the graphics and adding\changing a couple of mechanics in the game.
The story is also right after Duke Nukem 3D and was overall quite interesting and well done with the time traveling.. Heck you get to kill Jack the Ripper right after he murders his last victim...



And you could do the First Person View cheat, which seals the deal - although your gun wouldn't be visible and the movement was a bit slow. Despite all that, I still prefer playing Zero Hour in first person.
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User is online   X-Vector 

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#24

View Postdjdori11, on 24 September 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Duke Nukem: Zero Hour is in some ways what Duke Nukem Forever should have been.


http://www.mobygames...0-h0ur/mobyrank

From the Avault review (inactive):

Quote

Duke Nukem Forever this is not, but it's a decent way to get down to business with the most loudmouthed action hero of the lot.


After watching a couple of walkthroughs, I don't really see the appeal; the game looks dingy (with an appalling framerate in highres mode), some of the environments are incredibly boring (e.g. Dawn of the Duke), the soundscape is very dry and Duke's oneliners are both too numerous and often rather poor ("oh boy, it's clobbering time" while picking up some ammo from the bottom of the canal).

What am I missing?
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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#25

You haven't played it yet.

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User is offline   Person of Color 

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#26

Another quality post by X-Vector.

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Proud trigendered babysexual pan-Korean anarcho-transhumanist
Muslims are peaceful people oppressed by cis white males! Hillary for presidynt!
WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED BY DONALD TRUMP'S VIOLENCE!
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User is offline   Fox 

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#27

View PostX-Vector, on 25 September 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

After watching a couple of walkthroughs, I don't really see the appeal; the game looks dingy (with an appalling framerate in highres mode), some of the environments are incredibly boring (e.g. Dawn of the Duke), the soundscape is very dry and Duke's oneliners are both too numerous and often rather poor ("oh boy, it's clobbering time" while picking up some ammo from the bottom of the canal).

What am I missing?

Even if you don't like it, you should agree that it's way better than DNF.
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User is offline   necroslut 

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#28

DNF kicks Zero Hour's ass. Not a bad game, but it gets far too much credit.

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User is offline   Ronin 

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#29

View Postnecroslut, on 26 September 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

DNF kicks Zero Hour's ass. Not a bad game, but it gets far too much credit.

DNF kicks its own ass, that about it. Zero Hour is a vastly superior game, especially for the time it came out.
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User is offline   necroslut 

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#30

View PostRonan, on 26 September 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

DNF kicks its own ass, that about it. Zero Hour is a vastly superior game, especially for the time it came out.

Zero Hour's level design is even less interesting than DNF's.

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