[Paul B]

Hi guys,

Well here is another loaded TROR map for you. Requirement is Polymer and a very fast computer.
I can only hope that one day these Polymer maps will run as fast as lightening (Classic Mode). Anyway, I hope you enjoy it.

Attached thumbnail(s)

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Attached File(s)

•  Entrapped.zip (263.44K)
  Number of downloads: 380

[Merlijn]

Those screenshots look very good. Are you sure it's unplayable in classic?

[Paul B]

 Merlijn, on 24 August 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

Those screenshots look very good. Are you sure it's unplayable in classic?

Yep, it's unplayable in Classic mode, I just tried it. I really like the fps improvement in Classic but Classic doesn't support TROR and the classic renderer is way too dark. =( I shaded the entire map using Polymer.

[Helixhorned]

 Paul B, on 24 August 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

Yep, it's unplayable in Classic mode, I just tried it. I really like the fps improvement in Classic but Classic doesn't support TROR and the classic renderer is way too dark. =( I shaded the entire map using Polymer.

Polymer in ART mapping shade mode should be pretty damn close to classic, which is the reference. Make sure you have miscellaneous GL-specific brightness-related cvars set to one. These come to mind: r_shadescale, r_ambientlight (game only).

[Mikko]

Yeah the central building takes the framerate below 10, with or without Polymer lights, so it's pretty much unplayable. And damn Classic is dark.

[Paul B]

 Mikko_Sandt, on 24 August 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yeah the central building takes the framerate below 10, with or without Polymer lights, so it's pretty much unplayable. And damn Classic is dark.

Okay i've brightened the hatch into the utility room from the sewers and I've changed some textures on the hatch door. Hopefully this makes it more obvious which way to go. I am not planning on making any more changes to this map. I'm tired of play testing it.

[Mikko]

It's not a bad idea to play the map in Classic if you can't play it otherwise.

Reviewed: http://msdn.duke4.net/hotentrapped.php

[MetHy]

This is simply unplayable once you reach the streets area due to the framerate.

score : 1/10 for the 3mins of sewer gameplay that were okay (I liked the "push block" puzzles, that's something under-used in usermaps which however has a lot of potential, I actually used it in a map I've been working on on&off)

Please make a map that can actually be played next time.

[Paul B]

Thanks for your 2 cents Methy, when using new features in Mapster it's tough to make maps playable on everyone's computers as we don't all have the same hardware. While this map is still playable on my PC it does drop to 10-15fps on the front street which makes it tough for certain play styles if you like to speed hop and run and gun its practically impossible. I was hoping to slow down the game play with this map by introducing a different style of game play other than your typical old school run and gun. I know that because of the frame rates some play styles will be hindered. Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy the map. Maybe one day it will run better for you. Anyway, this is my last publicly released map I've got personal matters to attend to and I will no longer be frequenting the Eduke community.

All the best and thanks for your support.

[Mia Max]

 MetHy, on 25 August 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

This is simply unplayable once you reach the streets area due to the framerate.

score : 1/10 for the 3mins of sewer gameplay that were okay (I liked the "push block" puzzles, that's something under-used in usermaps which however has a lot of potential, I actually used it in a map I've been working on on&off)

Please make a map that can actually be played next time.

Mapping is hard work and costs a lot of time.
Your comment simply ruins all the fun of mapping.

[Hank]

Well, as before, I like your style, and due to my day time business I need good hardware, but I still have a hard time finding weapons. I've got the Freeze thingy first, before anything else, and killing Brains while they move with the sewer stream did not work well, then I bumped into a Mini Boss, way up top, so I decided to use Hank's magic and summon weapons. After this, the map is a lot of fun.


Yet, I may have mentioned it before, a long, long long long time ago the mapper called Level Lord said Frame Rate is God. Even in 1995 there was the same issue, how far can you go versus how far should you go. I actually calculated a ratio for FPS. If I've got 80, the average player gets 30, this was sort of a my target in them days. So if you get only 10 FPS on a good rig, no one else, or very view will be able to play it.

[Forge]

i can somehow manage to play these maps with a 9800 gtx+. the only noticable lag i had was when the safe door opened. all i did was back out into the street and carry the fight on there with no further problems

anyway, a review where the map was played with recommended settings:
http://www.scent-88....entra/entra.php

[underTaker]

I was waiting for the map to be released I have to say I really liked it. Even though, I'm not really big fan of polymer/hrp/tror, this map was really nice to play through.
It seemed really open to me, which I just really, really love in games and in maps, even though I'm not sure if I didn't take some wrong paths, that player shouldn't have to take. But that is a good thing - maps shouldn't be just like leading you all the way in one particular path, and you would just encouter everything that you would except, this map make me think a little bit on where should I go and where should I gather health (i got enough ammo through whole map).
I didn't see any bigger texture issues, and the gameplay was briliant for me. Good job there, Paul

[Mikko]

 Hank, on 25 August 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

I decided to use Hank's magic and summon weapons. After this, the map is a lot of fun.

You spoiled a big part of the fun:(

[Hank]

 Mikko_Sandt, on 25 August 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

You spoiled a big part of the fun:(

I wuz gettin shot bah dah boss man, an' 'cause he wuz onna TROR levler very hard te get riddof, and I didnd sais to play dah cheatin' way, ony dad ah did it, like.

[DavoX]

 Paul B, on 25 August 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Anyway, this is my last publicly released map I've got personal matters to attend to and I will no longer be frequenting the Eduke community.

All the best and thanks for your support.

You really can't be serious, just because a couple of guys didn't give much for your map it doesn't mean you have to go away. I belive you're making the maps just for the scores or whatever, well everyone has their own reasons to map but it's usually better to just enjoy the process of mapping instead of wanting a super high score.

I've learned with time that if most of the people tell you the map is unplayable, then it is. So you should feel the fault on you, not everyone else, even if you post calmly , it is pretty obvious you're upset about this.

[MetHy]

 Paul B, on 25 August 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

While this map is still playable on my PC it does drop to 10-15fps on the front street which makes it tough for certain play styles if you like to speed hop and run and gun its practically impossible. I was hoping to slow down the game play with this map by introducing a different style of game play other than your typical old school run and gun. I know that because of the frame rates some play styles will be hindered. Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy the map. Maybe one day it will run better for you. Anyway, this is my last publicly released map I've got personal matters to attend to and I will no longer be frequenting the Eduke community.

All the best and thanks for your support.

10-15 FPS is what I got too. 10-15 FPS is not "still playable", it's unplayable. Not to mention that a BLord is thrown directly at the player face when that framerate drop happens. It's not that I did not enjoy the map, and actually like I said the start was enjoyable with a good use of the rarely used "push block type" puzzle; it's that it's NOT possible to enjoy it since it's not even playable.

 Mia Max, on 25 August 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Mapping is hard work and costs a lot of time.
Your comment simply ruins all the fun of mapping.

It's hardwork and takes a lot of time, I know that for sure, which is why one should make sure that this time spent is worth it in the end. In other words, Paul should have made sure that his map was going to be playable (especailly since even HE admit to get 10-15FPS so he has no excuse).
There is no need to go overboard with TROR in order to build awesome looking stuff if the player can't even get to those awesome looking stuff.

I'm sorry if my comment sounds harsh, and it's not meant to discourage anybody to map at all; but rather to discourage people to make unplayable maps because they end up pointless.


edit : so apparently the map IS playable if you have a strong GPU then.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Mikko is completely valid in his review; the map simply cannot be given a decent review if it can't even be played by a majority of users, let alone himself.

[Mikko]

I'm actually very surprised that even Paul got such a crappy performance out of the map. I would never spend time working on a map that I can't even play (and I too wouldn't consider 10-15 fps playable).

[LeoD]

Nice work again, Paul. I've played it until I died for the first time due to the lack of ammo. Will continue when there's more time to enjoy it the way it deserves. I've bought a GTX660 recently, and apart from small hickups when loading textures for the first time, the frame rate usually doesn't drop below 20. So I'm fine with the playability. There are many releases dedicated to classic mode - I'm happy when something like this is released. In the not so far future the majority of players should be able to run it anyway.

 Paul B, on 25 August 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Anyway, this is my last publicly released map I've got personal matters to attend to and I will no longer be frequenting the Eduke community.
All the best and thanks for your support.

All the best to you as well!

[The Commander]

TROR fail...

I was also able to jump out of the jail cell window where you start and was teleported onto the roof.

I have not played this map and was just curious as to the performance I would have on it and my FPS dipped down to 25-30 on my i7, GTX570 rig.

[MetHy]

It's such a shame because all those screenshots look good.

Somebody who (supposedly) has good framerate with it (like Forge?) should record and upload a video playthrough of it (be sure to take your time to look around for everybody to enjoy the scenery please).

Just make sure to record an in-game demo and THEN record with a video recording program or that program might hinder the performance even more as you play. (that means no dying allowed though)

would be much appreciated

[Forge]

no dying? tough on this map for the first part, but do-able

i don't post stuff to youtube. how bout i send you the demo and you convert it and post it?

i'll be busy the next several days, but the weather starting to turn wet so i could probably find time for it.

[Mike Norvak]

I can take a video, but demo recording is disabled on the menu. And recording while playing the game is just too much for my graphic card. How can I record a demo?

It is playable for me on normal conditions thought. I'm enjoying it so far Paul, it is an awesome map! With nice surprises here and there

[Forge]

disabled?

i think you're supposed to start the demo recorder before you launch the map

[Paul B]

Thanks to everyone who has given this map a try despite a rocky launch. Just when you think you've tested every possible thing there's always unforeseen things that pop up ruining the experience. I do appreciate the constructive criticism because it is these comments that help me become better at what I do.

@ Commander - The glitch you found in the jail cell should never have happened. Somehow my blocking wall was turned green and allowed Duke to clip out of the cell and I’m not sure at what point that happened.

@ Forge - There's no hard feelings. I value your expertise and opinions good or bad.

I’ve also read that someone may consider doing a demo of this map??? That would be really cool!!! Is it actually feasible to record a 50 minute Duke video? Won’t the demo file be too large to post online? Anyway, if someone does go ahead with this idea I’d be very appreciative of having that as a souvenir I’d keep forever! It would be really interesting to see how someone else’s interpretation of the map plays out.

One of the many problems with this map is I tried to force the player to fight mini bosses with “select” weapons. The first mini boss Duke encounters on the restaurant roof was not intended to be fought right away. In fact you can leave without alerting him and he was supposed to be killed much later in the game with pipe bombs from an upper window. I was intending for Duke to skip by this boss sort of like an intimidating factor and much the same with the Mini Boss in the pool area. But I don’t think that translated too well for someone who didn’t understand what I was trying to achieve.

So if you managed to kill the Mini Boss in the pool area before entering the restaurant you are a Duke God! As I tried to make that part impassible, <SPOILER> remember use the snacks vending machine as cover when you get the RPG. =)

I had some pretty narrow visions of how I wanted the combat to play out and well no two people play the same. Another example of the combat scenarios was the Restaurant loading dock. The trap at the loading dock was setup so Duke wasn’t supposed to leave the back room during the fire fight. He was supposed to hold fort by pushing filing cabinets and crates while throwing pipe bombs out the back door. The exact time the last enemy dies the security gate will open letting Duke into the Kitchen.

I believe the reason why most people ran out of ammo while playing this map was because they weren’t using the pipe bombs in the designated places.

The crappy thing about my map being this large is it takes forever to play test, especially when one play through is 40-50 minutes. While the map is still very playable on my computer the worst frame rate I get is on the second floor of the restaurant in the Arcade room. Again, that fire fight was pre meditated. So yes I would be curious to see how someone else tackles that situation.

Anyway, thanks for all feedback. I’ve learnt a lot during the process of making this map and the reason I made it so elaborate was because I was intending for this to be my last Duke map. I wanted to go out with something BIG! Not because I want a good rating as I could careless about the rating. I just want to make something that people can remember me by. Be it Good or Bad.

If a game demo is recorded of the map. Please use this version http://forums.duke4....&attach_id=7131 I’ve brightened up the really dark areas as much as I could. I’ve fixed bugs where Duke could trap himself and not get out without wall clipping along with various other tweaks to ammo \ weapon placement \ enemy placement etc…

Also, I still use a CRT old style monitor. So I’m not sure if the brightness is any different on a CRT compared to an LED screen? It may be darker on an LED screen and unfortunately I can’t test that.

Regards,
Paul

[MetHy]

I haven't played the map, but it sounds like you were expecting players to go through the map is a way that they weren't told. If I see a BLord, I'm going to try to fight him right away with the weapons at my disposal (it's not so hard to kill a BLord without explosives) unless there is something (a viewscreen showing weaopns or a text explaining) telling me to do so; ESPECIALLY if the framerate is bad I'd rather kill all enemies right away to be able to move freely. Avoiding stuff with bad framerate is even worse than killing stuff with bad framerate.

[Mikko]

I killed the Battlelord only when I made it to the ledge (that seemed to lead nowhere) across the street from him.

[Forge]

first i clear the street, then i clear the pool area before going down the sewer - i killed the pool battlelord with the freezer and pistol - using the vending machine and the little niche across the hall as cover

maybe used one or two pipebombs in the loading dock fight - didn't really have an ammo issue, used the chaingun as much as possible - with that many enforcers there's liable to be a few crates of ammo dropped - which i'd hop out and grab real quick

the initial battlelord i left alone - went back and killed it depending on how much ammo i had sometime after killing the pool battlelord

i tried making a demo last night but i died after killing the 3 battlelords encountered at the top of the dukeburger - forgot about the pigcop sniper on the ledge
i was trying to get through fast to make the video time shorter, but this is a pretty tough map to do that in. if i try again i'll be more cautious and let MetHy edit it for time

[MetHy]

I wouldn't be able to view the demo in-game reasonably let alone record it since framerate drops a lot on my computer...