[RangerXT]

i am wondering if it would be possible to import mdl in eduke 32 instead of md3?

[Mark]

On the developer's list of things to do for Eduke will be some other model format support. But I doubt it will be mdl

[Plagman]

Supporting MDL would require redesigning the renderer and model animation system to support skeletal animation, so it won't happen very soon. It's something that we'll need in the end however, vertex animation is long dead at this point.

[blizzart]

 Mark., on 03 July 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

On the developer's list of things to do for Eduke will be some other model format support. But I doubt it will be mdl

Does anybody know, which format that will be?

[Mark]

Its been talked about before and I think some of the formats mentioned were md5 and fbx. Not really sure though.

[ReaperMan]

fbx has my vote.

[leilei]

IQM has my vote. MD5 is awful and lacks certain features (like normals) and has terrible pipelines which are often the reason why Doom3 mods take forever.

As for MDL, there's many games that use that extension for different formats. If Quake MDL, don't bother (it's just MD2 with internal skins and flags/framegroups/skingroups). If Half-Life or Source MDL, don't bother either as that's one terribly documented format hardly any third-party ever supported, plus creating them is a dubious enough process since most tools to produce them (especially StudioMDL) are shipped with specific game SDKs with usage rights making their use strictly intended for their own games, so it's not even legally unencumbered... And it's not like you'll ever take advantage of the bone controllers in the format anyway.

[Hank]

 Plagman, on 03 July 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Supporting MDL would require redesigning the renderer and model animation system to support skeletal animation, so it won't happen very soon. It's something that we'll need in the end however, vertex animation is long dead at this point.

Since we are talking long range, will clothing be included? Like Skinned Cloth, were the clothing moves with a given actor? Yes, obviously a shitload of work, but so is making the cloths

[Striker]

Since HL1/HL2 MDL isn't well documented and is a compiled binary model format, how about SMDs? Those are fairly well-documented, and are the base for creating Goldsrc/Source MDLs

 Plagman, on 03 July 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Supporting MDL would require redesigning the renderer and model animation system to support skeletal animation, so it won't happen very soon. It's something that we'll need in the end however, vertex animation is long dead at this point.

I think he's referring to Quake 1 MDLs, which are vertex animated.

[Hendricks266]

I don't understand why someone would request Quake 1 MDLs when we support Quake 2 MD2s and Quake 3 MD3s.

[Tea Monster]

He's got to be talking about source mdls...

Mdl is generally a pain in the ass to export. IQM looks great on paper, but I don't know any games that actually use it. And before you say "Quake, derp" they are mostly using MD3 at the moment for high res stuff. What if we take on IQM and then the small team of devs go back to their day job?

Better something with more general support like FBX.

[RangerXT]

actually i was talking about quake 1 mdl's as my comp sucks bad and with the hi res models it dropped 10 fps with models on. so i wanted to know if i could import the player mdl from quake and use a duke nukem skin for it. sounds like it doesnt work. however someone said something about md2? is this true? does eduke32 support this format?

[Hank]

 RangerXT, on 10 July 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

actually i was talking about quake 1 mdl's as my comp sucks bad and with the hi res models it dropped 10 fps with models on. so i wanted to know if i could import the player mdl from quake and use a duke nukem skin for it. sounds like it doesnt work. however someone said something about md2? is this true? does eduke32 support this format?

md2 format is deprecated, you can try, but you will not get support.
Keep in mind EDuke32 gets daily updates and is under heavy construction ... just stick around for a while, and see if you can use sprites instead.

[Tea Monster]

Couldn't you just convert the quake dude to MD3? That way you'd have the same number of non-system - torturing polys, but in a format that eduke32 will use.

[Hank]

^ I have no idea - I am still trying to keep up with EDuke32 development


for now here is an old link about the very same subject, basically highlighting why md3 are here for EDuke32
http://forums.3dreal...hp/t-17809.html

So I go back to my original suggestion, stick around, learn, read a lot of forum material, try out stuff and decide for yourself.

[LeoD]

 RangerXT, on 10 July 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

however someone said something about md2? is this true? does eduke32 support this format?

Yes. So far.

[leilei]

There will be no performance advantage going from MD3 to MDL. The real killer of the performance is the texture cache, and a change to another, rather deprecated and UGLY vertex morphed model format won't help you at all.


There can be a performance advantage going from MD3 to a skeletal format though. Less vertex morphs to cache, and could vertex shader the transformations

[TerminX]

Don't use MD2, it's only supported by converting to MD3 at load time, and the conversion doesn't work for all models.

[zZaRDoZz]

 TerminX, on 10 July 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Don't use MD2, it's only supported by converting to MD3 at load time, and the conversion doesn't work for all models.

Shame that. Unlike it's older brother, MD2 has been improved upon. The md2 based DMD format used by that Risen3d doom port for example, or even Knightmare quake2's enhanced MD2 format with all the limits removed, are continuations of the original MD2.

[TerminX]

What does either of those alterations of MD2 have that MD3 doesn't?

[zZaRDoZz]

 TerminX, on 21 July 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

What does either of those alterations of MD2 have that MD3 doesn't?

Hmm, I'm not certain about this, but KMQ2's model format might be able to draw older MD2's used in DN32 modifications without conversion or loss of correct rendering. Don't quote me on that though.

DMD, although derived from MD2, isn't compatible any longer.

[leilei]

Sounds like a lot of work for something redundant, and more obscure and specific with less content pipelines for. It wouldn't be worth it just to support an obscure MD2 variation because some doom ports use it, instead of something more sensible like implementing MD3 or IQM.


Needs less "it would be cool..." and more "would it be necessary?"

[Carl Winslow]

I'm confused as to why there's so many of these formats when it basically comes down to 'only usable by blender and nothing else'. it's kind of irksome to support such a backwards program when you want to make something of interest accessible.

[TerminX]

 leilei, on 21 July 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Sounds like a lot of work for something redundant, and more obscure and specific with less content pipelines for. It wouldn't be worth it just to support an obscure MD2 variation because some doom ports use it, instead of something more sensible like implementing MD3 or IQM.


Needs less "it would be cool..." and more "would it be necessary?"

I agree, hence why I pretty much asked what the point would be (to which I did not get any kind of satisfactory reply from "zZaRDoZz"). They must not be important variations when you ask what they offer over the original format and the person suggesting them has no answer.

[zZaRDoZz]

 TerminX, on 22 July 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

. They must not be important variations when you ask what they offer over the original format and the person suggesting them has no answer.

I didn't address your point directly which is my mistake. An awful 56k connection can make one lackadaisical when thinking of a proper response.

Quote

What does either of those alterations of MD2 have that MD3 doesn't?

Ah, easy. Nothing that I know of.

Knightmare Q2 format at best would render the md2 models from older mods better than the extent method of converting md2s to md3s. Not being a modder myself, that "at best" has to taken with a grain of salt of course. Also, seeing as I have no idea how effective the conversion method is, hypothetically speaking, if the current protocol rendered 99% of md2 models into md3 models with no issues, then I agree. It would be a waste of your time and energy just to get that last 1%. Modders who feel their models aren't being rendered correctly should update their work with md3s converted in a program designed for that sort of thing.

If on the other hand the conversion process is only, say, 80% effective or maybe less, you have to ask, how important are 3d models to the DN3D modding community? I just started exploring what's available myself and don't know how TerminX, modders, or the majority of eduke32 fans feel.

[Tea Monster]

To the OP, dude, get noesis, convert whatever you are using to MD3, rock on, job done.

[zZaRDoZz]

Whoa, Whooaa mindless- train- of- thought- that- is- totally- flawed-at- first- level- of- assumption!
Whooaa I say!

I see what your getting at now. In a world of:

Classic MD2 format alongside MD3 format.

vs.

KnightmareQ2 revamped MD2 format alongside MD3 format.

The second statement has no value at all. Eduke32 (earlier versions) already have md2 code that can run things just fine if it were reimplemented and everything you could do with limits-removed MD2 you could do with MD3. Yeeesh!

Leilei:

Quote

Needs less "it would be cool..." and more "would it be necessary?"

Now this makes sense, went right over my head the first time.
Remember kids, when your parents say take your vitamins, take your f%@*king vitamins.
I'll be back for yet more insightful posting the second Tuesday of next week.
G'night everyone!

*band plays him off stage*