[OpenMaw]

Because they honestly won't give a shit about this. With the other things they've shown an active interest in stopping projects. We already have Duke Nukem Eternity, which features recreations of certain DNF locations... 3DR and Gearbox did not care. As long as people are doing it within Duke 3D I don't think they will, either.

[Devil Master]

Duke Rocks, on 06 April 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Well, I made several UnrealEd mock-ups of locations showcased in the 1999 screenshots and 1998 video

You made me curious. Do you still have any screenshot of them?

Anyway, in 2000-2001 I had made some mockups of DNF locations too with the Unreal 1 engine. I posted screenshots of them on the Internet and on the 3DRealms forum, and I even used them to participate in the "fake DNF screenshot contest" in 2001, and I never received any complaint from Joe or anyone else. They were supposed to be part of a total conversion titled "The Fourth Coming", with a protagonist named Doug Mayhem.

EDIT: I still have those screenshots. Here they are:
http://i47.tinypic.com/25j9kaq.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2u7aa1x.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/34dqttl.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2rwwz8l.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/1zp7ayw.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/wu1c7k.jpg

[OpenMaw]

Devil Master, on 06 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

They were supposed to be part of a total conversion titled "The Fourth Coming", with a protagonist named Doug Mayhem.

That would be protected under parody.

[Gambini]

Those screenshots look cool Devil Master. Now I see where you come from when insisting to make it hires. Yet, this is a project with a slighly different aim. And being a Duke Nukem 3d mod, i don´t see why we would be shut.

Anyway... you guys seem too worried about 3d Realms or Gearbox shutting down fan projects. What would be the worst thing to happen if they ask us to stop doing it and we ignore them? They will put pressure on the sites we´d be hosted to remove all links, and will nag and cry. But there´s no way I´m stopping workinon this because of that. They won´t come here to put me in jail.

[Devil Master]

Gambini, on 06 April 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Anyway... you guys seem too worried about 3d Realms or Gearbox shutting down fan projects. What would be the worst thing to happen if they ask us to stop doing it and we ignore them? They will put pressure on the sites we´d be hosted to remove all links, and will nag and cry. But there´s no way I´m stopping workinon this because of that. They won´t come here to put me in jail.

I'm not a lawyer, but IMO it would be better not to mention DNF in the title. As Commando Nukem said, my attempt to make "The Fourth Coming" had not been stopped because it counted as a parody (it never mentioned Duke Nukem)...
BUT...
...in 1999 I had attempted to remake Hollywood Holocaust as a Quake2 level. I had posted a screenshot of the bathroom area in the 3DRealms forum, and THAT attracted the attention of 3DRealms. I received an email from Joe telling me that I was not authorized to exploit the Duke Nukem IP, and if I didn't stop I would be sued. (BTW, that email also contained the infamous line "Trust us, DNF will rock when it comes out next year")
I stopped.

[Kathy]

Then screw them. It is Duke Nukem Forever. They better change their own's creation name if they don't want it to be associated with something awesome for a change.

[Jimmy]

As far as I remember, you're allowed to do anything with Duke Nukem as long as you're using an existing Duke Nukem product. Although, this was prior to the IP changing hands.

[Kathy]

It also appears all Duke Nukem games except DNF are still tied to 3dRealms/Apogee. So in a way they're doing DNF in another company's game/engine. But Gearbox won't risk pulling crap like that now. They are desperate for a good press and shutting down a fan project done in an engine of a previous Duke Nukem game could be another PR disaster which they can't afford.

[Jimmy]

You're delusional if you think Gearbox gives a fuck about any of that. A:CM was a massive trainwreck. They'll still sell 8 million copies of Borderlands 3 and all the expansions will be super successful.

[Gambini]

At least Scott Miller saw the video and he didn´t dislike it at all. That´d count in court i guess.

[Jblade]

A page late but no Micky, while there is no pinball machine in Nuclear Showdown there IS an arcade machine, but it's horribly bad and let's not mention it again

[Kathy]

JoJo the Idiot Circus Boy, on 06 April 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

You're delusional if you think Gearbox gives a fuck about any of that. A:CM was a massive trainwreck. They'll still sell 8 million copies of Borderlands 3 and all the expansions will be super successful.

What about their other projects? Public image is still quite important for an independent developer.

Maybe I was overstating about "can't afford another disaster", but having several bad PR incidents in a short period of time will get people wary enough to pay more attention next time.

[Saiyuki234]

James, on 06 April 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

A page late but no Micky, while there is no pinball machine in Nuclear Showdown there IS an arcade machine, but it's horribly bad and let's not mention it again

were you the one who created nuclear showdown? can you post a tutorial on how to install it? whenever i use it, Duke3D hits only 4-5 fps.

[Richard Shead]

Devil Master, on 06 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

You made me curious. Do you still have any screenshot of them?

Anyway, in 2000-2001 I had made some mockups of DNF locations too with the Unreal 1 engine. I posted screenshots of them on the Internet and on the 3DRealms forum, and I even used them to participate in the "fake DNF screenshot contest" in 2001, and I never received any complaint from Joe or anyone else. They were supposed to be part of a total conversion titled "The Fourth Coming", with a protagonist named Doug Mayhem.

EDIT: I still have those screenshots. Here they are:
http://i47.tinypic.com/25j9kaq.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2u7aa1x.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/34dqttl.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2rwwz8l.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/1zp7ayw.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/wu1c7k.jpg

I totally remember that! You were even originally using the Quake 2 engine...talk about the ultimate parody. I remember you releasing the first episode as TC for Prey. It was pretty cool!

And no, I don't have any screenshots or evidence of the old level designs I made. Sorry.

Once Duke Nukem Forever(2013) comes out, I might remake some of its levels/areas in UDK just for shits and giggles.

I also remember Gideon aka Mr3DMax aka HireMeGeorge wowing the 3DR forums with his DNF-inspired Unreal creations way back in the day.





And sorry if I'm seeming overly paranoid. Just looking out for you guys based upon my personal past experiences. 3DR seems to be especially anal about any of their property being monkeyed with and apparently Gearbox has adopted that stance. I'm not saying that I agree with those rules or even that I think those rules should be honored. I'm just reiterating what I've heard and been told.

[Jimmy]

Cathy, on 06 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

What about their other projects? Public image is still quite important for an independent developer.

Maybe I was overstating about "can't afford another disaster", but having several bad PR incidents in a short period of time will get people wary enough to pay more attention next time.

Nope. The plebs will buy Borderlands 3 regardless. Unless it really sucks, and even then they'll still buy it.

[Micky C]

Just realized my 2 week break starts on the 12th. I know what I'll be doing during the holidays (what perfect timing).

[Kathy]

JoJo the Idiot Circus Boy, on 06 April 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Nope. The plebs will buy Borderlands 3 regardless. Unless it really sucks, and even then they'll still buy it.

As I said I wasn't talking about Borderlands 3. Their other games might suffer.

[Jblade]

Saiyuki234, on 06 April 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

were you the one who created nuclear showdown? can you post a tutorial on how to install it? whenever i use it, Duke3D hits only 4-5 fps.

That IS how you use it, it's very out-dated and there's code in there that makes the serious lag you see when you play it. I haven't gotten round to making an updated version as there's only a couple of people interested I think.

[Saiyuki234]

James, on 07 April 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

That IS how you use it, it's very out-dated and there's code in there that makes the serious lag you see when you play it. I haven't gotten round to making an updated version as there's only a couple of people interested I think.

well have someone help you with it and make an updated version. NS is freakin rad. : 3
duke 64 weapons and new varieties of enemies. and new items. very cool.

[LkMax]

James, on 07 April 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

I haven't gotten round to making an updated version as there's only a couple of people interested I think.

Which is a shame, your mod is very good. The only thing I disliked about it was the new armor system, it makes the game too easy (and the way the new itens are almost not present on the maps).

[Jimmy]

Cathy, on 06 April 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

As I said I wasn't talking about Borderlands 3. Their other games might suffer.

At this point it's rather obvious they only care about their own proprietary IPs.

[Kristian Joensen]

JoJo the Idiot Circus Boy, on 07 April 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

At this point it's rather obvious they only care about their own proprietary IPs.

Like Duke?

[OpenMaw]

Kristian Joensen, on 07 April 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Like Duke?

They aren't the progenitors of Duke. For it to be proprietary it would have to be something Gearbox originated and had exclusive rights to, they don't They have shared rights between them and 3D Realms, splitting the games into generations.

[Kathy]

It doesn't matter where it originated. Financially they will have better revenue with IPs they own thus making next Duke a game they should care more than, say, they were with A:CM since it was a contract job.

[OpenMaw]

Cathy, on 07 April 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

It doesn't matter where it originated. Financially they will have better revenue with IPs they own thus making next Duke a game they should care more than, say, they were with A:CM since it was a contract job.

It does matter when we're calling into question the definition of words like proprietary. Duke is not proprietary to Gearbox. It is assimilated.


And Gearbox wanted the Aliens job. Randy wanted to work with that IP, but they were more concerned with Borderlands 2. That may show they care more about things developed in house, but it also demonstrates a distinct lack of forward thinking. They'll burn partners like FOX and SEGA for their own immediate interests. So who's to say they wouldn't do the same to Duke fans if and when the time comes to work on that IP while Borderlands 3 is being built?

The other element that you're missing is that Duke Forever was not a victory for them. They took a loss, they took some major critical flack. Gearbox + Duke is seen by many as a failure. So they may not be so keen to do another Duke any time soon.

[Kathy]

Commando Nukem, on 07 April 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

It does matter when we're calling into question the definition of words like proprietary. Duke is not proprietary to Gearbox. It is assimilated.

They own it. That's what matters now.

Quote

So who's to say they wouldn't do the same to Duke fans if and when the time comes to work on that IP while Borderlands 3 is being built?

Because they depend on this IP since it's theirs. What was the point of acquiring it then?

Quote

The other element that you're missing is that Duke Forever was not a victory for them. They took a loss, they took some major critical flack. Gearbox + Duke is seen by many as a failure. So they may not be so keen to do another Duke any time soon.

But they will. Sometime. And they'll care for it being good as they do for Borderlands.

[Gambini]

THIS POST WAS A JOKE. I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY EMAIL.
Shit guys! You called it

Just received an email from a Gearbox´s lawsuit´s officer or something:

Quote

Dear Luciano Gallo:

Your use of our Duke Nukem Forever name and images on your Youtube video and Moddb screen captures is an infringement of our trademark. Our parent company, Gearbox Software, and its affiliate, 2K Games, which is the registered owner of the mark, demand that we strictly enforce our trademark rights. We therefore must insist that you immediately remove all images and videos from the Internet, and that you also immediately cease developing the game modification from where that media has been captured.

Please confirm in writing that you will take the required steps by no later than Tuesday, April 9, 2013. This is not an idle threat. If you don’t comply, we will take legal action against you, which will include seeking recovery of our attorneys’ fees.

Kelly Warner

They have also provided some personal details that i won´t mention, including my steam account, surely as a way to pressure me. I curse the day I made that video public.

[PokeThePower]

No way.

[Micky C]

That sucks! It has literally nothing in common with the released DNF except it's name.

There's gotta be something we can do. If Randy Pitchford loves Duke 1/10th as much as he claims he does, he should personally step up and let this mod continue. I wonder if he even knows about this.

[Bloodshot]

lol so the hoover dam and motorcycles are copyrighted by Gearbox now?

Somebody should sue them for being full of shit.

Doubtful, but maybe it's just from using the 2001 audio? Like, if you showed them that the things that are DNF like are only "inspired" by it then they would back down?