[Mike Norvak]

The Big Cheese, on 28 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

eduke32 will have that relatively soon. Besides, even if Duke 3D+ does have it, it's not exactly a brand new feature.



Maps and mods?

I might be wrong since I'm not an expert on code or the historical development of duke 3D source ports, but I believe that JFDuke3D doesn't have eduke's code functionality, especially not eduke32's latest code additions. On top of this, it wouldn't support maps with TROR, this means that not only the present and future mind blowing 3D maps can't be played, but every map that used even the tiniest bit of TROR for whatever reason is suddenly incompatible.

That means that two of the bigger and more impressive TCs, the AMC TC and WGRealms 2 (not to mention all the other recent mods), suddenly can't be played, because they use both TROR and the latest con code. So this "Duke 3D+" is automatically cutting out a huge and arguably the most impressive and appealing section of user made addons from being played by a new audience, which is a damn shame.

Hehe I accidentally up vote your post instead of clicking reply ... I think what MetHy is saying is that a hub in Steam with lots of users is a good spot to promote EDuke through. Anyway people still needs to buy DN3D from GOG which is a really bad thing, are people gonna buy an already purchased game just to play mods? (even if those are great as hell) unless Steam DN already comes with the .grp file, which I doubt

[Micky C]

Yeah if the Duke3D.grp comes with DRM I'm gonna be seriously pissed off.

Edit: No need to apologize, I'm almost at 900

[Kathy]

The Big Cheese, on 28 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

That means that two of the bigger and more impressive TCs, the AMC TC and WGRealms 2

Aren't these TCs don't require Duke3d anyway?

Quote

Yeah if the Duke3D.grp comes with DRM I'm gonna be seriously pissed off.

Considering that Steam is a DRM it wouldn't so surprising.

[Radar]

The Big Cheese, on 28 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Quote

What about multiplayer\coop?

eduke32 will have that relatively soon.

Sure. Or we can wait for this to come out and have it the second it's released, assuming they're working on multiplayer. Or we can just load up xduke and hduke and have it this instant!

The Big Cheese, on 28 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

I might be wrong since I'm not an expert on code or the historical development of duke 3D source ports, but I believe that JFDuke3D doesn't have eduke's code functionality, especially not eduke32's latest code additions. On top of this, it wouldn't support maps with TROR, this means that not only the present and future mind blowing 3D maps can't be played, but every map that used even the tiniest bit of TROR for whatever reason is suddenly incompatible.

That means that two of the bigger and more impressive TCs, the AMC TC and WGRealms 2 (not to mention all the other recent mods), suddenly can't be played, because they use both TROR and the latest con code. So this "Duke 3D+" is automatically cutting out a huge and arguably the most impressive and appealing section of user made addons from being played by a new audience, which is a damn shame.

We don't really know if this is based on JFDuke3D. Given their track record it probably is, but this is still jumping way too fast to conclusions. Either way, would you rather have them steal EDuke32 code instead so people can play TROR maps? And if you're going to bash their intents just because they don't have TROR, at least use legit examples. The first release of WGRealms 2 didn't have any TROR (don't know about AMC). Especially since those games were standalone, I don't see why this would change their popularity for the worse in any way. And no TROR isn't a huge deal; do we even have ten "most impressive and appealing" TROR maps released? They can still play the Roch and Red maps; those didn't even pass the old sector/sprite/wall limits!

[Micky C]

Lunick told me it's using JFDuke3D.

The AMC TC does use TROR. However that's a moot point, because JFDuke3D won't be able to run the con scripting of AMC TC and WGRealms 2. Nor Dukeplus, Attrition, or anything Zaxtor, Mblackwell, Zykov Eddy, Emerica or anyone else has released/is working on.
I'd be happy and I think TX and the developers would be happy if they "stole" eduke32 code, as long as they released the source of their own executable so that TX can "steal" the new stuff back into eduke32. That's the point of open source. However I doubt they'd put in so much effort.

My rant wasn't focused on TROR but on con code capability, which is extremely limited in JFDuke3D so any mod/TC made in the last 10 years won't work. Which is a HUGE amount of high quality content.
It won't be so bad if people can just copy the Duke3D.grp and use eduke32, so we'll wait to see on whether or not that will be possible.

[Radar]

I just want the multiplayer.

[Hendricks266]

Spirrwell, on 28 February 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Was that possible? Is that sarcasm? Did my request of this get added to EDuke32 without me knowing? I'm confused...

He's referring to how the old version of JFDuke3D's Polymost has a hall of mirrors at the full extent of looking up or down. (We work around it now by zooming in slightly.)

[Lunick]

Oh my goodness, what on earth have you guys been doing to this thread I go to bed and wake up to this.

I'm pretty sure this port is aimed at people who just want to play the game. They don't care about all these fancy features that have been showed off in eduke32 unlike all you guys. Did you want them to use the eduke32 source code?

@TX, I have no idea what you mean about that but people still use 5:4 resolutions?

The pistol being all the way to the right only happens in Widescreen mode. When you use a 4:3 resolution it is in the right place.

I am pretty sure you won't be able to run mods with this port because of the way the directories are structured. Usermaps wouldn't be a problem though.

@TheBigCheese, how many maps with TROR are there?

The only part of this that has DRM is the duke3d.exe itself. You can take your grp files and go play them with eduke32 if you wish. You could even replace the 'Classic' dos duke3d.exe with the eduke32 exe and then even run it through Steam.

And that's my post over My efforts are probably fruitless against some people who have made their decision here.

[Spirrwell]

But the thing is, if people wanted something that plain, they could simply use xDuke, JFDuke3D, hDuke, an old version of EDuke32, or a current version without using all of that updated stuff. It honestly feels like reinventing the wheel. If they're not going to be bringing anything new and exciting to the table, then what's the point? Shadow Warrior on the other hand... we all forgot about that again didn't we? What about Shadow Warrior+? Are they going to bring anything new to the table there?

Edit: Oh and thank you Hendricks266 for that explanation.

[Radar]

That's why I'm hoping they have multiplayer.

[Micky C]

Quote

Well I can only think of 3 full vanilla usermaps that make extensive use of the feature. There are probably a few others that use it in a much more minimalistic way and therefore aren't obvious TROR maps.

The problems is that TROR isn't just for mega 3D fests like Parkade, it's such a useful tool that overcomes many obstacles, from multi-story buildings, to proper sewer holes, to sloped floating platforms, and even editing the floor without worrying about messing up the ceiling. Most of these constructions require only the simplest understanding of TROR and would work in classic and probably polymost, so it's not like you'll need polymer as half the community (even Mikko) seems to think.

So over the next few years, anyone who wants to overcome those limiations but have their map compatible with the Steam version of Duke 3D and its community hub will either have to go through a lot of effort for a workaround, or change their plans entirely.
However it probably wont' end up being that big a deal. Mappers who are that desperate can probably release a seperate version of their map for Duke 3D+, and of course that's assuming that the community hub actually becomes popular for map sharing. It might not be.

Edit: Wow that's a lot of posts while I was typing. In fact disregard what I said in the "quote" above; the more I think about it, the less of a deal it is.

[Lunick]

I can only imagine that Shadow Warrior Classic+ will use JFSW and will use the iOS port assets. I am not a tester of that.

[Jimmy]

If they use JFSW, now THAT is gonna be a broken piece of shit.

[Lunick]

But they used it for the iOS version which I tested and it wasn't buggy at all

[thatguy]

Bitchy fits. Thats all.

[Micky C]

But imagine though, what if they took JFSW and fixed all the bugs, then released the source code. Then we'd have an updated, perfectly working source port of Shadow Warrior! It's not like they can't stop us from recompiling the code without DRM right? After all, since it's open source we're not paying for the exe, we're paying for the game data, which most of us already have. Could be awesome.

And maybe they'll include that third unreleased expansion pack which I can never remember the name of.

[Lunick]

The Big Cheese, on 01 March 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

And maybe they'll include that third unreleased expansion pack which I can never remember the name of.

Ask Hendricks about that one.

[Spirrwell]

So legally, these HAVE to be open source right if they're ripping from JFSW and JFDuke3D? They are licensed under GPL which I've learned so much about these past few days...

I mean if that's the case, they might as well rip as much as they can from either JFDuke3D and EDuke32 since they're going to have to release the source anyway assuming the former is true.

[Kristian Joensen]

The problem is that 3DR ignored that little bit with regards to Duke3D XBLA.

[Spirrwell]

Kristian Joensen, on 01 March 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

The problem is that 3DR ignored that little bit with regards to Duke3D XBLA.

I know that, but we're under a different set of circumstances now seeing as how this is simply a PC port and this is a different company. The sure as hell better open source it. Although I'm interested, how do we know that they're using JFDuke3D code?

[Lunick]

Spirrwell, on 01 March 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Although I'm interested, how do we know that they're using JFDuke3D code?

Because Lunick said so.

(It's in the credits)

[Spirrwell]

Lunick, on 01 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Because Lunick said so.

(It's in the credits)

Ah, well they sure as hell better release that source code! Can you screenshot that though? I'd love to see that. And it'd probably be best to have proof if they did indeed use their code and not open source it.

[Lunick]

Well if you must, it even says it is based on in the credits:

[Spirrwell]

Ah, it even says Open-Source... Well, I guess our fears of it not being open source should be completely gone.

[Radar]

Well then I sure hope they mod the heck out of it and take as many pieces of code from open source builds as they can. I want to see what they come up with, assuming we'll get all of it back.

[Jimmy]

The Big Cheese, on 01 March 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

And maybe they'll include that third unreleased expansion pack which I can never remember the name of.

Don't count on it. It's unplayable and I sincerely doubt these guys even know about, much less have a copy.

[Micky C]

I was under the impression it was finished? Or maybe that some fans somehow had an illegal copy of it, finished it up, but have to wait for an official say from 3DR to release it?

[Jimmy]

It was mostly finished, but ultimately unplayable. And you're almost right on the second part.

[Radar]

Third unreleased expansion? Please explain.

[Micky C]

http://en.wikipedia....Warrior#Add-ons

Read the first line.