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Blood source code release now a *real* possibility  "thanks to Jace Hall, he wants your input"

User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #1

http://www.the-postm....php?f=2&t=1890

http://www.the-postm....php?f=2&t=1889

If I may editorialize, Jace has the source and wants to fix it up and add all these things, but he has reservations about releasing the source because of "cheating and hacking", even though those concerns can be alleviated. In my eyes, a closed source centralized Blood port would be a shame, in a way.

EDIT: Now the fact is revealed that Jace is up against the same brick wall as us in terms of a public source code release, and he is not interested in pursuing that, so forget about that. His own game update only, which is still a great thing.
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User is offline   Mr. Tibbs 

#2

View PostHendricks266, on 03 August 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

http://www.the-postm....php?f=2&t=1890

http://www.the-postm....php?f=2&t=1889

If I may editorialize, Jace has the source and wants to fix it up and add all these things, but he has reservations about releasing the source because of "cheating and hacking", even though those concerns can be alleviated. In my eyes, a closed source centralized Blood port would be a shame, in a way.


Wow, this could be huge news. Just the possibility of playing Blood at a reasonable resolution with decent performance would be incredible. I understand your reservations though. Here's hoping there's nothing major to compromise the port.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#3

Did he just compare potential Blood source port(s) to Doom source ports? That's madness. The closest thing to a Blood source port he should be making references to is eduke32, which is pretty much the one and only Duke port that people play, minus some multilayer hassles which will hopefully be fixed some time.

Even with Shadow Warrior I think most people only use SWP now but I'm not that savvy on SW.
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User is offline   Tetsuo 

#4

What I just love *sarcasm* about whenever something like this is brought up is all those arm chair game preservationists who are against any kind of improvement or change whatsoever. If they had their way the only way we'd play classic games is in the settings they originally played them at during their childhood. Even if they are entirely optional just their existence hurts them in the deepest personal way.

In my opinion I played Blood at 800x600 VESA graphics on a 14 inch tube with rounded corners and small computer speakers in the 90's because of technological limitations of the time. Not because that was the quintessential way to play that game. If I could have higher resolution, 3D accelerated rendering with everything it entails, etc. I would have done it. If I want to play a non-enhanced version I would just slap it into DOSBox and be done with it.. I play source ports specifically for the improvements. But I guess that's what happens with some communities that center around an old game.. their feelings of nostalgia count more than anything to them.

I have nothing against an icculus style direct port but again... when I think source port I think of eDuke32, Doomsday Engine, etc. But I just remember the first GLROTT port being cancelled because a certain loud group where against there being any changes or improvements whatsoever. That wasn't too cool.

Besides, there's nothing to say that they can't have the same kind of voxel support that the current build ports have with OpenGL. For Blood I had been stuck playing the original with the GLIDE patch in DOSBox but the resolution is low and it is pretty buggy and crashy. I would rather have a version that I can run at arbitrary resolutions. The TC for eduke32 seems fine but it'd be nice for it to be standalone and I see Jace Hall would like for it to also be on other platforms like Mac so that's cool. I just don't know if I want to hold my breath waiting for it to happen at this point.

I'm glad though that the source isn't lost after all and he has it and seems to be willing to do something with it. I think he needs to have a little more faith that the open source community can do something good with it though.

This post has been edited by Tetsuo: 03 August 2012 - 04:05 AM

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User is offline   Master Fibbles 

  • I have the power!

#5

Interesting..so, Jace Hall cleared up the legal mess surrounding the Blood source code?
0

#6

Holy Jeebus!
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User is offline   Lunick 

  • Snazzy Ex Tazzy

#7

Wow, so a Blood Port might be possible soon? I'm all for it!
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#8

Good news!
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#9

It has to be open source. Closed source is unacceptable. Tracking frags is not a big enough deal to warrant closed source, seriously.

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 03 August 2012 - 01:50 PM

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#10

I'm just wondering how long it'll take before we get a (hopefully open source) release? No offense to Lucious, but it's been brutal waiting for BloodXL to be released in some form. I know unavoidable shit happens and all that, but it's still frustrating.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#11

View PostTetsuo, on 03 August 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

What I just love *sarcasm* about whenever something like this is brought up is all those arm chair game preservationists who are against any kind of improvement or change whatsoever.


While I don't consider myself one of these people, the fact that you need a lot of resources to pull some kind of extended enhancements and Jace wants this to be free of charge are in contradiction with each other.
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User is offline   thatguy 

#12

View PostDaedolon, on 04 August 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

While I don't consider myself one of these people, the fact that you need a lot of resources to pull some kind of extended enhancements and Jace wants this to be free of charge are in contradiction with each other.


Yeah, because eDuke was so expensive to make. Thats why you get the community to make the enhancements.

This post has been edited by s.b.Newsom: 04 August 2012 - 09:04 AM

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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#13

Well that obviously isn't possible if this were to become closed source. You can only swap textures with the original limitations still in place, do some minor adjustments to the weapons and edit maps. That's not very mod-able imho.
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User is offline   thatguy 

#14

View PostDaedolon, on 04 August 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Well that obviously isn't possible if this were to become closed source. You can only swap textures with the original limitations still in place, do some minor adjustments to the weapons and edit maps. That's not very mod-able imho.


And that's why closed source just won't work. We are relying on one person only to do something a whole community wanted to do long ago.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#15

So in essence, you're agreeing with Daedolon.

Also, fuck you Necroslut. Learn to post.
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#16

none ofg you read his latest post in which he basically says opensource is almost nearly a no go, so it's either he fits the bill to do it or it might never happen. appreciate the fact he's being nice enough to even want to do it.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#17

Does blood even have a big enough community to warrant leader boards like that?

I imagine Duke 3D would have a larger community and I really doubt anyone much, except perhaps two dozen cry babies, would hugely care about a ranking like that. Although I've never used or seen Duke 3D xbox live so I could be wrong, but lately I've gotten the impression that not many people play that these days either.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 05 August 2012 - 01:51 AM

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User is offline   Tetsuo 

#18

I hate how they have it setup so posts need to be moderated before they are added to the thread. Caused some confusion for me. ;)
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User is offline   Mark 

#19

If the guy really does have the code I hope its backed up in plenty of safe places. It would suck massively if we read one day down the road about a computer crash or theft leaving us high and dry again.

This post has been edited by Marked: 05 August 2012 - 04:29 AM

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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#20

View PostTetsuo, on 05 August 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

I hate how they have it setup so posts need to be moderated before they are added to the thread. Caused some confusion for me. ;)


We just got a huge influx of bots last year so I made it so that the first post of every new user has to be approved just so see they're human. After that you're free to post whatever.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#21

I'm smelling a lot of bullshit. Why would he want to add a bunch of stupid shit in there like enhanced visuals and leaderboards, but he's worried about keeping the game in tact? And furthermore, why would they let him release a new executable, but not the source itself? And why is he so disinterested in getting the source released at all? Source code or bust, dude.
-1

User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#22

He can use the source code since he was in the original team of developers, that doesn't mean he can give it away.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#23

The way he's talking he does not have permission to use the source code, however he thinks he can get it. Why would they let him use it, but not release it? If they don't understand why you would release a source code, why would they understand why you would make a new version of the executable?
-1

#24

I just want to be able to play Blood on my Win 7 machine without fucking around with Dosbox with enhanced textures and music and better mouselook and key binding. And just go online every now and then to play Deathmatch and experience all the crazy mods people have come up with.

Open, Closed, I don't care. This is my favorite FPS of all time and I just want to play it whenever.
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #25

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 05 August 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

The way he's talking he does not have permission to use the source code, however he thinks he can get it. Why would they let him use it, but not release it? If they don't understand why you would release a source code, why would they understand why you would make a new version of the executable?

I'm not sure how to approach your question. Releasing the source code to something is such an unusual thing for a big corporation like Atari to do. Can you name game companies other than id and 3DR that release game source code? Also, releasing a new executable only requires licensing the IP and the original game. Releasing source code in any useful manner would require licensing it under something like the GNU GPLv2, which gives away the rights of the original devs. Companies are anathema to giving things up.

Other than that, there is simply the explanation of the difference between source code and executable binaries.
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User is offline   Loke 

#26

View PostBruno Mattei, on 05 August 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I just want to be able to play Blood on my Win 7 machine without fucking around with Dosbox...


Agreed. DOSBox works in general but it's so slow and sluggish that it's not an viable option for me. The awkward mouselook makes it harder to play than it should and playing in any resolution higher than 800x640 results in weird graphical artifacts and absolutely terrible performance. Blood deserves so much better. Really hopes something good comes out of this.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#27

View PostHendricks266, on 05 August 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Releasing source code in any useful manner would require licensing it under something like the GNU GPLv2, which gives away the rights of the original devs.


As I know it, the Blood source code also contains code from RAD / Bink, which could not be released as is, and the game is dependent on the code to run. It's not even the only case of third party code inside Blood's source code. All these things would have to be heavily edited and/or cleared through the respectable companies.
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#28

Actually, that could should be relatively easy to remove... For one thing, the game never runs this code when the game is started in MS-DOS as opposed to a DOS Box.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#29

View PostBruno Mattei, on 05 August 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I just want to be able to play Blood on my Win 7 machine without fucking around with Dosbox with enhanced textures and music and better mouselook and key binding. And just go online every now and then to play Deathmatch and experience all the crazy mods people have come up with.

Open, Closed, I don't care. This is my favorite FPS of all time and I just want to play it whenever.

"Crazy" mods would require an open source where you could add in functionality for modability. As it stands now, you can't really add anything new other than graphics, maps, or sounds. I don't think things can get 'crazy' until you have some sort of scripting language.
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #30

View PostDaedolon, on 06 August 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

As I know it, the Blood source code also contains code from RAD / Bink, which could not be released as is, and the game is dependent on the code to run.

I don't know if the licensing applies to the decoder within Blood or just to the encoder tools that Monolith used, but in any case it would be simple to stub out copyrighted code and add a library derived from FFmpeg to support these movie formats.
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