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Political Shitshooting  "previously: YEAH! WOOHOO! Liberals got the same healthcare pla"

User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#31

Maybe if we taxed the rich on the same level as the poor.

e·gal·i·tar·i·an, adj. - Those who have more pay less, those who have less pay more.

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 01 July 2012 - 07:50 AM

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User is online   ReaperMan 

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#32

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 01 July 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Maybe if we taxed the rich on the same level as the poor.

egalitarian, adj. - Those who have more pay less, those who have less pay more.

Thats a great idea. Too bad the rich rule the world.
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#33

View PostReaperMan, on 01 July 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

Thats a great idea. Too bad the rich rule the world.

THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MAN. MIKKO WILL BE BACK HERE ANY SECOND.
*edit* Oh shit, too late now.

rebel without a cause or effect

This post has been edited by EmericaSkater: 01 July 2012 - 08:27 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#34

The rich only rule the world because, collectively, we let them.

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#35

Why should success be penalized? If anything the poor should pay more taxes as they use services disproportionately.

View PostMad Max RW, on 30 June 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

You guys do realize healthcare already eats up more federal funding (taxpayer money) than anything else, right? More than education and more than the military. So the current administration's plan to improve and expand healthcare is by throwing more money at it with the largest tax increase in US history. That method sure has done wonders to our public education system, which cost us more than both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with no improvements whatsoever. Then how many trillions have we spent on LBJ's war to wipe out poverty? That one sure panned out well. And now we're broke. But let's just raise taxes and keep spending more. It sure has worked out well in Europe. Oh wait...



Exactly. There's absolutely nothing "pragmatic" about expanding Medicaid or Medicare. It is precisely the opposite: wrecking the future well-being of the economy for the sake of idealism. Entitlement spending is the single biggest threat to America. You can always pull out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam or whatever, but any attempt to reform entitlement programs hits a huge brick wall. Once spending on these programs is on the way, it becomes uncontrollable. Such shortsightedness is the antithesis of pragmatism. It's the equivalent of "shoot first and ask questions later".

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User is offline   Mark 

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#36

View PostDescent, on 30 June 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Marked, you should look into Medicaid if you're income level fits in a couple years. ACA expands eligibility and funding when it goes into effect. One of the very few good ideas in the bill.

That's my goal, to get back on a plan with a much larger income cap, or better yet, buy a plan with no income cap and expansive name brand drug coverage.


My goal is to stay off the government dole. I saw the numbers in the paper today showing I would qualify for a handout to pay for the costlier plan I am forced to buy. Depending on how much the new plan will cost, I will entertain the thought of denying the handout if possible. IIRC singles could make up to 44K/year to qualify. Overkill if you ask me.
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#37

View PostEmericaSkater, on 01 July 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MAN. MIKKO WILL BE BACK HERE ANY SECOND.

Oh god.(hides under covers) :rolleyes:

This post has been edited by ReaperMan: 01 July 2012 - 08:25 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#38

How is asking someone to participate in their own society penalization? On the flipside, that implies that rich people need an incentive to be rich. Yes, of course. No one wants to be rich, we have to make it convenient for people.



Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 01 July 2012 - 08:27 AM

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User is offline   Mikko 

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#39

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 01 July 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

How is asking someone to participate in their own society penalization?


The evil little fascist in you has, it seems, surfaced again as your idea of "asking" someone to contribute is to loot with the state's exclusive right to initiate non-defensive violence. (Tax evaders are literally dragged into prison at gunpoint.) Such logic fills the pages of 1984.

Howabout you tell me what exactly it is that the poor contribute? The rich earn money through the satisfaction of the wants of the consumer: they contribute and in exchange they're rewarded.

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#40

You're a fucking retard.

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz
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#41

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 01 July 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

How is asking someone to participate in their own society penalization?


There we run into the ideological root of the problem - you have already taken up the position that running a business, selling goods and services, and turning in a profit is not in and of itself participating in society. Your idea of participation seems to be a mandated contribution to the government where they hopefully (given our federal government's confounding method of money management) will give aid to the less fortunate. I'm sorry, but I just cannot identify with that.

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You're a fucking retard.


Oh, grow up. You're better than that.

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This post has been edited by Achenar: 01 July 2012 - 08:41 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#42

Poor people run businesses, sell goods and services, and turn profits. I don't care if rich people pay more taxes. They can keep paying the same rate, as long as everybody else gets that rate too. I don't exactly understand how it is fascism to have everyone pay the same percentage. In fact, it sounds more like fascism the other way around. And it isn't about 'giving aid to the poor'. Taxes pay for things like roads, police departments, the military, etc. Without the police to protect their precious banks, where would they be?

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 01 July 2012 - 08:44 AM

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#43

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 01 July 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Poor people run businesses, sell goods and services, and turn profits. I don't care if rich people pay more taxes. They can keep paying the same rate, as long as everybody else gets that rate too. I don't exactly understand how it is fascism to have everyone pay the same percentage. In fact, it sounds more like fascism the other way around.


I don't disagree with the idea of a flat tax. Your previous post implied that you advocated increased taxation for the sake of expanding Medicare and Medicaid. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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And it isn't about 'giving aid to the poor'. Taxes pay for things like roads, police departments, the military, etc. Without the police to protect their precious banks, where would they be?


No argument there. Just goes to show we need to consolidate our tax system more so that people cannot dodge the system, putting the burden on those who actually do pay tax.

Cobrastan is not a real country.
Keep Radar away!

This post has been edited by Achenar: 01 July 2012 - 08:46 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#44

Increased taxation could help supplement and pay for expanded Medicare and Medicaid, yes, but it's not like I'm saying they should pay extra to expand it. Just the same tax rate anyone else would pay, and I don't care whether that rate is lower or higher.

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz
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#45

View PostMarked, on 01 July 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

My goal is to stay off the government dole. I saw the numbers in the paper today showing I would qualify for a handout to pay for the costlier plan I am forced to buy. Depending on how much the new plan will cost, I will entertain the thought of denying the handout if possible. IIRC singles could make up to 44K/year to qualify. Overkill if you ask me.


Hey man, I hear ya. 140 I.Q., about to have three different certifications, able to work full time, but I gotta limit my income and receive massive handouts because of how patched together our healthcare system is.

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 01 July 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Howabout you tell me what exactly it is that the poor contribute? The rich earn money through the satisfaction of the wants of the consumer: they contribute and in exchange they're rewarded.


Poor people pump my septic tank, clean my slaughtered meat, cook my cheeseburgers, pump my gas, relocate my shit when I move, pick up my trash, and when I'm lonely some of them have Pay Per View vaginas.

They make civilized life possible for the rest of us.

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This post has been edited by Descent: 01 July 2012 - 09:18 AM

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#46

Who is going to pay the taxes when our poverty rate is skyrocketing, more businesses are closing, and nobody is creating jobs? Half the population already pays nothing at all. We need more people to pay and the only way to do that is growing the economy and bringing people up out of poverty. It will never grow under the conditions of the Obama administration with the highest taxes in the world and more regulations on those who haven't thrown up their hands and given up yet. Progressives ruined this country and they're a plague in both political parties.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 01 July 2012 - 09:12 AM

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#47

Max, are you voting for Gary Johnson?

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Muslims are peaceful people oppressed by cis white males! Hillary for presidynt!
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This post has been edited by Descent: 01 July 2012 - 09:24 AM

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User is offline   Mikko 

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#48

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 01 July 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Poor people run businesses, sell goods and services, and turn profits. I don't care if rich people pay more taxes.


View PostDescent, on 01 July 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Poor people pump my septic tank, clean my slaughtered meat, cook my cheeseburgers, pump my gas, relocate my shit when I move, pick up my trash, and when I'm lonely some of them have Pay Per View vaginas.


Poverty among those who're employed is extremely low. You make it sound as if the poor are, in general, hard working. Many of the workers you listed have comfortable incomes.

Captain Awesome said that the rich should be "asked" to "contribute", apparently beyond the production and jobs they already supply to the economy. Do you believe that the poor who're serving you cheeseburgers owe you something beyond the cheeseburger you just paid for? If the rich - who pay tons of taxes but hardly ever use public services they have paid for - should contribute more than the vast amounts they already contribute shouldn't the poor contribute even more, seeing how they have hardly contributed anything in the first place (even a monkey can take your order for a cheeseburger)?

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User is offline   Mark 

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#49

Yea Max, those regulations are killers. When the politicians give in to the tree-huggin' hippies by telling people and businesses they can't build on their own land because of a butterfly or frog that may or may not actually live there. OY.

Even if its not a lot of money I feel everyone should have some "skin in the game" as far as paying taxes. It might lead to them switching away from blindly voting for the "handout giving" politicians.

This post has been edited by Marked: 01 July 2012 - 11:04 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#50

In Mikko Sandt's world, rich people don't use public roads to get from place to place, the police so that people don't come kill them and take all their shit, military protection so that other people can't just come kill them and take all their shit and shoot their planes out of the sky, courts that prosecute people who would otherwise kill or steal all their shit, prisons to hold all the people who would otherwise kill or steal all of their shit, firefighters so that their shit isn't consumed by fire. They don't ever use public water or public/national parks. They never benefited from the space program. Oh yeah, and they don't have a vested interest in sustaining their own government. I could go on and on. They have just as much duty to pay for the very same government they've benefited from as anyone else, especially since they could not have accumulated such wealth without it.

And these are the same assholes shipping our jobs to Mexico and buying our elections. You're full of shit, Mikko.

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 01 July 2012 - 11:16 AM

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User is offline   Mikko 

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#51

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 01 July 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

In Mikko Sandt's world, rich people don't use public roads to get from place to place, the police so that people don't come kill them and take all their shit, military protection so that other people can't just come kill them and take all their shit and shoot their planes out of the sky, courts that prosecute people who would otherwise kill or steal all their shit, prisons to hold all the people who would otherwise kill or steal all of their shit, firefighters so that their shit isn't consumed by fire. They don't ever use public water or public/national parks. They never benefited from the space program. Oh yeah, and they don't have a vested interest in sustaining their own government. I could go on and on. They have just as much duty to pay for the very same government they've benefited from as anyone else, especially since they could not have accumulated such wealth without it.


This is a strawman argument as I have never argued against government provision of security. In fact, proponents of laissez-faire economics generally consider public provision of security against both foreign and domestic threats the sole responsibilty of the state.

Of course, the dollar amounts the state allocates to, say, the police and the courts are of the Mickey Mouse variety compared to the costs of public health care and social security. On top of that the rich usually rely on private security services rather than having public-sector cops patrolling their gated communities.

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And these are the same assholes shipping our jobs to Mexico and buying our elections.


Those jobs are obviously not in any sense yours.

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#52

Of course you haven't, you just argued that poor people should pay for it.

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#53

I said "If anything the poor should pay more taxes as they use services disproportionately." As it is now, the rich pay the vast majority of taxes despite consuming very little public services. There's no rationale for making the rich pay more taxes. People who demand that the rich should pay more are driven by greed, bitter envy and hatred.

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#54

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 01 July 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Poverty among those who're employed is extremely low. You make it sound as if the poor are, in general, hard working. Many of the workers you listed have comfortable income.


How is $7.25/hr comfortable? That's poverty level. You can't live on that in any part of New York State, nor can you live on minimum wage almost anywhere now. Rent is too high, car insurance, gas prices, etc.

Do you research anything before you write or do you just let stuff come out of your mouth?

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 01 July 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

I said "If anything the poor should pay more taxes as they use services disproportionately." As it is now, the rich pay the vast majority of taxes despite consuming very little public services. There's no rationale for making the rich pay more taxes. People who demand that the rich should pay more are driven by greed, bitter envy and hatred.


What is it with you and extremes? Holy shit bro.

You're argument is idealistic, not pragmatic. Upper class people must pay more to keep services running, and poor people must pay less because, naturally, they make less. Demand generates jobs. How can you create demand if you expand taxes on the poor and middle class?

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Those jobs are obviously not in any sense yours.


Yes, they are. It's globalization run rampant.

P.S. My brother's friend is center right and goes Villanova University, which is a damn fine college. He is an economics major, and he'll be graduating in half a year.

He thinks your posts are hilarious. He also said, quote on quote, "This guy is so full of shit."

P.P.S. The fact that you called CA a "fascist" and resorted to unsubstantiated reactionary talking points is proof of your ignorance.

No one ever has rational discussions with you because you can't even hold a conversation on The Internet. You swing to extremes, debate in circles, talk down to everyone, and never admit you are wrong despite whatever evidence is presented.

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This post has been edited by Descent: 01 July 2012 - 05:01 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 100MPH 

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#55

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 01 July 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

I said "If anything the poor should pay more taxes as they use services disproportionately." As it is now, the rich pay the vast majority of taxes despite consuming very little public services. There's no rationale for making the rich pay more taxes. People who demand that the rich should pay more are driven by greed, bitter envy and hatred.

On the contrary, my argument was simply that they should pay the same amount as everyone else. Or that everyone else pays the same amount they do. Either one.

Coke costs a lot of money you know. - oasiz
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#56

View PostDescent, on 01 July 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

No one ever has rational discussions with you because you can't even hold a conversation on The Internet.

I wasn't aware that there were that many rational conversation on the internet to begin with.
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#57

View PostReaperMan, on 01 July 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I wasn't aware that there were that many rational conversation on the internet to begin with.


There isn't. Everyone in this thread is full of shit, really, even me, because we're all arguing without knowing all the facts.

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#58

I doubt anyone has all the facts, but you can at least have a conversation about the few facts you may know and share what you know.

This post has been edited by ReaperMan: 01 July 2012 - 05:27 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

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#59

I took a dump before posting to make sure I wasn't full of sh_t.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

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#60

View PostDescent, on 01 July 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

P.S. My brother's friend is center right and goes Villanova University, which is a damn fine college. He is an economics major, and he'll be graduating in half a year.


I'd be interested in what he says after ten years in the real world.
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