[Flying Techbot]

Why did Gearbox prohibit modding the DNF, again? I don't think I can find that information elsewhere, and you guys are more informed than I am. DNF's version of the UNREAL 2 engine is flawed, but why prohibit the ones look beyond the engine's appearance and wants to actually mod the game? It seems counterintuitive to bar anyone from making add-ons to a game, are there some convoluted legal technicalities that I'm not aware of? What is the REAL reason why Duke fans are barred from modding and doing add-ons for the game? What is actually at stake here, and what is Gearbox's reasoning behind their decision?

[Micky C]

Flying Techbot, on 08 June 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

I don't think I can find that information elsewhere

Yep, they never told us why we never got mod tools. There are 2 theories about this, one is that the game isn't put together very well and they don't want the fans to see that. However, the more generally accepted reason (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) is that their Publisher, 2K Games, won't let them release the mod tools, so that if anyone wants to play more Duke levels, the only way they'd be able to do that is to buy the DLCs. It's sick, it's sad, but it's probably the truth.

Flying Techbot, on 08 June 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

It seems counterintuitive to bar anyone from making add-ons to a game

I agree! Mod tools would have allowed players to maintain interest in the game much longer (just look at Duke 3D and Doom), and attracted a lot more players to the games, especially if some good maps and mods were released. In short it would have given players much more content for their money, making the game a lot more worthwhile. However on the other hand, any good maps and mods would clearly make the original game look even worse by comparison. Gearbox don't want people saying "oh, check out person X's new map/mod, it's sooooo much better than the original game!", even though it's their own bloody fault for releasing the game in such a poor state in the first place.

[Kathy]

Micky C, on 08 June 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

Publisher, 2K Games, won't let them release the mod tools, so that if anyone wants to play more Duke levels, the only way they'd be able to do that is to buy the DLCs. It's sick, it's sad, but it's probably the truth.

When did the the publisher became the one to blame? Civ5 has mod tools despite Firaxis being owned by 2K Games. When was the last time GBX released mod tools for their own games?

[Mad Max RW]

I dare you guys to go back and re-read the discussions that took place on this forum exactly one year ago when DNF launched. It seems I won a few bets.

[Tea Monster]

To me. the worst thing was that they were promised, even teased with, then nothing. Not even some weasly press release with some bull shit excuse, just silence.

[OpenMaw]

Tea Monster, on 09 June 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

To me. the worst thing was that they were promised, even teased with, then nothing. Not even some weasly press release with some bull shit excuse, just silence.

By George. Not Randy. I got into a bit of a discussion on the GBX forums with Joe before the game came out. Basically an argument over how things have changed, blah blah... I could tell they were getting ready to deflect. Anytime Randy was asked his response was "Uhhh.... We're thinking about it. We're looking into that."

They did flat out lie to us about their being space levels in DNF. There were none. Not until the DLC. Not even a multiplayer map with a space theme.

[trustn0!]

Multitude of reasons i believe.

One is the structure of 2K seems to have been different back then and only recently they are getting backing up the idea of mods. (XCOM getting mod tools)
Another is the fact that this engine is fucking horrendous as it is(the unreal wiki which im inclined to believe says this is based off of Unreal 1 build 613)

But really the most important thing is that i dont think this game deserves its mod tools to be released.
Let people simply forget about the damn thing.

Just let DNF die and start anew.

[Kathy]

trustn0!, on 11 June 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

One is the structure of 2K seems to have been different back then and only recently they are getting backing up the idea of mods. (XCOM getting mod tools)

Because X-Com is being made by Firaxis, whose previous game also had mod tools. Despite, and I repeat, being owned by 2K.

[trustn0!]

Its interesting to note that unlike Civ 5 XCOM is multiplat.

[Kathy]

Civ has it's own console game. Given the genre it would be unwise to develop multiplatform since either PC or console game would suffer.

[OpenMaw]

trustn0!, on 11 June 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

One is the structure of 2K seems to have been different back then and only recently they are getting backing up the idea of mods. (XCOM getting mod tools)
Another is the fact that this engine is fucking horrendous as it is(the unreal wiki which im inclined to believe says this is based off of Unreal 1 build 613)

Way off. That would have been DNF 2001. Duke Forever used Unreal 2 as a basis, "2.5" as it was called, but its been hacked and changed around a lot.

[trustn0!]

Commando Nukem, on 12 June 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

Way off. That would have been DNF 2001. Duke Forever used Unreal 2 as a basis, "2.5" as it was called, but its been hacked and changed around a lot.

Thats actually never been confirmed has it?

Or am i wrong?
Considering this thing looks like its barely holding itself together im inclined to believe the wiki on this.

[OpenMaw]

trustn0!, on 12 June 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Thats actually never been confirmed has it?

Or am i wrong?
Considering this thing looks like its barely holding itself together im inclined to believe the wiki on this.

Confirmed by George and Scott. They upgraded sometimes between 2002 and 2005 as I recall.

[Kathy]

Not really.
http://forums.3dreal...61&postcount=16

[OpenMaw]

Burnett, on 12 June 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Not really.
http://forums.3dreal...61&postcount=16

He just confirmed it. They split off around the time of Unreal 2. There are static meshes in use within DNF. The "2.5" phrasing, which Kristen doesn't get it simply a way of saying its modified Unreal 2 code and takes it beyond what U2 could do.



The reason this may be hard to understand is this. 3D Realms was getting constant upgrades to the original Unreal as they were going along from Epic. That's the way it works. By the time 3DR was basically going their own way, they had an engine on Par with what Unreal 2 was. It would be akin to another developer using the Half-Life engine (Quake, I know) and getting upgrades/patches from Valve for several years, until they finally broke off. At the break off point they had the source engine. Same thing, just with Unreal.

[Kathy]

"Around Unreal 2" is vague.

And "It's a modified version of Unreal, about the time of Unreal 2.". Although, he was saying that about 2001 trailer, I believe.

Haven't they needed to buy Unreal Tech 2 first to use it? Although, I don't know how Unreal Tech developent branched out between 1 and 2.

[KareBear]

Burnett, on 12 June 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

And "It's a modified version of Unreal, about the time of Unreal 2.". Although, he was saying that about 2001 trailer, I believe.

No.The first Unreal Engine 2 game was Americas Army which was released in late 2002.

Edit:George posted than in 2007 on shacknews.

[Kathy]

KareBear, on 12 June 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

No.The first Unreal Engine 2 game was Americas Army which was released in late 2002.

Which means engine itself was available earlier, wasn't it?

[trustn0!]

Christ almighty
This game had such a clusterfuck of a development we dont have a statement over what ENGINE its using.

[Kathy]

There was a press release about Unreal Engine 1. It is still true, I think.