[Flying Techbot]

To the creator of WG REALMS 2: your work is incredible. Combined the best elements of DUKE NUKEM 3D with the best elements of DOOM 1+2, HERETIC, HEXEN, and even ARMY OF DARKNESS. It was an awesome choice to use music from AGE OF EMPIRES to set the mood. Having Duke Nukem do battle with variations of id Software's demons was inspired, and so was the level design and gameplay mechanics. Since you've pushed DN3D modifications to a new limit others are now pursuing, I suggest something which may push your WG REALMS series to even grander directions... Well, mabye "more nostalgic directions" is a better phrase. Now that Duke Nukem has saved another world from demons, how having Duke Nukem, in an attempt to return to Earth, gets messed up in a time warp and winds up during the events of DUKE NUKEM 1! It would take place right after Proton has escaped to the future with Past Duke pursuing him, except that the real Dr. Proton is lounging around in Shrapnel City, and YOU have to stop him from changing history. It would be an awesome opportunity to enhance the city environments of the original game (make them vaster and sleazier), pay homage to the platformer elements of DN1, and even recreate the enemies within DN3D. You could even recreate the Nuclear Pistol from DN1, which would add to the nostalgic feel. You could even bring in a brief cameo of the Rigelatins from DN2 to set the stage for the events which would play later on.

Would this make a worthy successor to WGR 2?

[Micky C]

I'm sure Trooper Dan and William Gee are glad you like it so much, but your ideas are never going to happen to WGRealms 2. Work is still being done on the TC, with new levels and features, and better graphics as you can see here, so you can have that to look forward to. However what you're talking about has nothing to do with WGRealms and will basically be creating a new TC from scratch as a completely seperate project, which is a large amount of work.

I'd rather see their effort continue to go to something fresh and original such as what's been done/is being done in WGRealms 2 than something which would be much closer to original Duke 3D gameplay. If you play some of the other (free and stand-alone) TCs and user maps you'll probably find something similar to what you're looking for.

[The Commander]

Its a nice idea and all, but I don't think it will fly.

I did hear though that there was going to be a secret level that is based upon a certain "block" game though.

[Danukem]

Glad you like the TC. And yes, we have already been working on the next installment.

[supergoofy]

And I'm looking forward for it to be released soon (I wish).

[Radar]

I don't know where else to ask this, so I'll just ask here. I see pretty 3D models in those screens Micky C posted. The mod will still be 100% 8-bit compatible though, right? The 8-bit tie was part of what made me love this mod.

[Micky C]

A lot of the new maps use complicated TROR and polymer lights, especially DanM's, and in light of this, a decision was made to officially break 8-bit compatibility and use models without sprite counterparts. At first we converted the models to voxels for the classic renderer but we realized that most of the new maps would look bad and maybe even glitchy in classic. However I don't think the new models are being added to the original maps, so they should be fine. I like the sprite-y feel of the original too but the models also look good with lighting.

[Danukem]

After WG left, none of the new mappers wanted to work within the 8-bit limitations, and you can't have a TC without mappers, so that was the end of 8-bit compatibility. Honestly I don't miss it. I just worry about Polymer performance.

[t800]

So are you telling me that new WGR will need polymer render with enabled 3D models to play properly? I need to know for sure.
3D models? OK, I can lower thier quality in options. But polymer? Oh no! It is nearly unplayable on my notebook.
This is one of the main reasons why I never played Duke Nukem Eternity, because I couldnt. And now I will need new hardware even for WGR?!

Sorry if this somehow offended you and other developers of WGR but please try to understand me. Will it be still playable without polymer?
P.S. Why has William Gee left this amazing project? He is godfather and founder of the very first WGR.

[Micky C]

He kind of left after episode 1 was finished as far as I can tell. He updated the original WGRealms mod for this TC but that was the end of it. He pops his head in every now and then.

There's still a lot of sprite props in the game, it's not like everything's going to be a model, and there's no difference between sprites and models in terms of performance in polymer.

Essentially; models - yes, polymer - almost definitely. You're welcome to try your luck without it though, but performance is a LOT better than DNE.

[Mikko]

How are you gonna sell the changes to the public? I mean, if two thirds of the game is functional in 8-bit but the last third is not, are you just gonna assume the player pays attention to changing his graphics settings?

[t800]

Micky C, on 03 June 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

You're welcome to try your luck without it though, but performance is a LOT better than DNE.

Well that is nice, but I still doubt that it will run well on my computer.
I cant even run LA Meltdown in polymer !without HRP! in linear filtering fluently.
And WGR is known for its huge outdoor areas = IMO polymer killer.

I just hope that levels wont be completly dark only lit up by dinamic lights and instead will be bright enough
so players can actually see something without dinamic lights, not pitch black.

[Danukem]

Mikko_Sandt, on 04 June 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

How are you gonna sell the changes to the public? I mean, if two thirds of the game is functional in 8-bit but the last third is not, are you just gonna assume the player pays attention to changing his graphics settings?

It is possible to detect which renderer is being used and give the player a warning if he is not using Polymer for the new episodes.

As for selling the changes, the next release will have a new title; it won't be called WG Realms at all. The title I suggested was "Gothicus" but that is subject to change. The new, Polymer episodes will be the focus of the next release. It will be marketed as a new TC, not as a new version of the old one. OpenGL will be an official requirement for the TC. It's not strictly true that it's a general requirement, since a lot of the levels can be played without. But most of the work is going into the Polymer episodes, and I think it would piss people off if we told them that the TC was 8-bit compatible and then they found out that they could not play the new episodes that way.

I will try to include the older episodes that work in 8-bit, but there will be significant changes in gameplay because the inventory system is being completely overhauled and various RPG elements are being added. The older episodes will probably be called "WG Realms" and "WG Realms 2", and how they will be accessed is yet to be determined. They could be episodes selected from the start in the usual way, or they could be accessible from a hub level -- although the latter option presents an obvious problem if the hub level uses Polymer and someone wants to play the old episodes in classic mode.

I know it is disappointing to some people that the new episodes might be unplayable for them due to the Polymer requirement. But keep in mind that those new episodes would not exist at all without Polymer; the mappers would not be inspired and that would be the end of the TC. For myself, I would have been happy sticking with 8-bit; from a gameplay and coding standpoint it makes little difference. But I am not a level designer, and those guys (DanM in particular) have made some amazing stuff that they would not have been inspired to do (or could have done) in 8-bit.

[Radar]

In all honesty, I'm happy as long as the mod stays consistent with its choice of render. Having this mod become half 8-bit and half polymer would truly bug me, especially since WGRealms2 is the kind of mod that I first suggest to the kind of dukers that want to be amazed while not straying away from what they can obviously tell is based completely on Duke Nukem 3D. Even if the old episodes are included for fun, I am excited to see this new release if it will indeed be under a new title.

[Player Lin]

For me, use polymer is OK but it still barely to run on my current old machine at all and I don't care.
Even that will be fun, but I guess I can't found the fun when I always get ~20fps or less on polymer renderer now, I just can't image the new TC will like what and it make my machine cry. WGR2 did the same shit when some BOSS battles or something made shitload of gibs/visual effects/whatever anythings, killed my fps to ~15fps or less and delay as ****, so it's just too bad my machine can't handle it good.
(At least I have other good mods still run-able on my poor machine, like AMC TC, even though same shit happens in that... )

Yeah, I know it can be fixed by buy a new shit machine, but I think it's not the point.

[Danukem]

Player Lin, on 06 June 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

WGR2 did the same shit when some BOSS battles or something made shitload of gibs/visual effects/whatever anythings, killed my fps to ~15fps or less and delay as ****, so it's just too bad my machine can't handle it good.

There was a problem in the past with the use of game palette switching, which was extremely resource intensive and would cause lag/hitching at the worst moments (e.g. the player would be lit on fire by a boss attack, causing the game palette to change). This will not be an issue in future versions.

As for Polymer: keep in mind that eventually it will be overhauled and optimized, and then performance problems will be history (assuming your card can handle OpenGL).

[supergoofy]

A Radeon HD 6770 (or higher), or a GeForce GTX 550 Ti (or higher) can handle polymer easily. These cards are not very expensive.

[Player Lin]

Oh, so that's bug, right. Good to heard that, but just a little disappointed WGRealms ended like that. :\

About new video cards. I know they are not very expensive, but that's not the point. Just needed some right timing to buy.

Whatever, I don't know whenever I can buy a new machine to replace my current 4 years old one(AMD A64 X2 3600+ @ 2.0GHz, MSI NX8600GT-T2D256E-OC). The old one still can handle Polymer with acceptable level I think but eventually, it will got replaced. Just not now and I won't be hurry. :3

[Mike Norvak]

Sorry for necropost. I just wanted to clarify that in spite of Willy left, and DT and DanM are somewhat away from this project (as well as Micky C until polymer gets optimized) I'm still mapping, in fact I have been very active in the last months. So the mod It's not dead. Pointed that out. I have to tell that the new episode/tc/ whatever the thing ends up by me will be POLYMOST only, not compatible with software and to some extent unplayable on polymer. The maps make further use of tree models, and some other model props, nothing that interfere with the classic look, will make minor use of TROR and will have huge levels and lots of new cool effects. It is more like a spiritual sequel / side story more than a real sequel, I have to see how it develops. I feel somewhat that William G should get back to mapping, I mean his work has been so inspiring to me, every time I check the original maps I feel like I can't make it justice with the new release, anyway they keep me motivated to keep mapping... Well I hope DT gets back soon to code and Damn finishes his polymer episode. It would be something wonderful if WG maps again some day.