[MrFlibble]

The thread about games that are similar to Duke Nukem 3D made me think about the following. There's a secret area in the first level of the shareware episode of Shadow Warrior, which is a red-lit room with a couch, a TV (that shows someone getting flogged for some reason; maybe a pop reference but I didn't get it) and a cache of weapons. I've always thought of this secret as a "sort of" reference to the rather hard-to-find secret in E1M1 in Duke Nukem 3D, where there's a rather similar red-lit room with a couch, a TV and a stash of weapons. This similarity was even greater in the leaked beta of Shadow Warrior, where this secret room is swapped with the starting room, so that you have to jump on a car to reach the secret room (somewhat similar to having to jump on the palm tree in Duke).

I have very little doubt that these similarities are a simple coincidence, however such a reference is quite different from directly referencing the Duke character (BTW, there's also another level in Shadow Warrior where Lo Wang comments a huge explosion with "Looks like Duke Nukem!"). So I've been wondering if there exist other suchlike references that point not to Duke himself but to some element of the game - a similar obstacle, level design, puzzle, secret area etc.? The game references should not necessarily be Duke Nukem 3D, of course

[Micky C]

In Duke, they're called levels, not missions or whatever the m stands for. It's E1L1.

And here's a DNF reference in Serious Sam 2:

[MrFlibble]

Heh, I also thought about the Serious Sam 2's secret (which some people find rather tasteless), but I was more interested not in character references but rather references to game play, levels, puzzles, secrets or other things. For example, one could say that the design of the Shrinker in Duke Nukem 3D is a tongue-in-cheek reference to the BFG.

Shadow Warrior beta has a voice clip of Lo Wang saying "Come get some!" Dunno why they decided to cut it out after all.

BTW, Serious Sam: The Second Encounter has an Easter egg reference to Duke Nukem Forever, in the phone conversation you get if you use the London phone booth on a small island behind the starting position.

 Micky C, on 19 May 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

In Duke, they're called levels, not missions or whatever the m stands for. It's E1L1.

Right, the ExMy (M stands for "map") convention is the Doom level-naming style.

[Kathy]

Sin Episodes

[MrFlibble]

I've pondered this topic a bit, and although I can't say many references of the particular type from other games have come to my mind, the Duke Nukem series seem to be full of such "structural (self-)references" (I think it's a nice term to go along with).

For a simple example, the title of Duke Nukem 3D Episode 3 obviously references the very first game, no less. Further, I think it would be safe to say that the boss battle of the first episode of DNMP is a reference to the helicopter battle in, again, Duke Nukem Episode 1 Level 3 (both being based on an action movie cliche).

Also, in Duke Nukem Episode 1 Level 1 Duke has to blow up a tower-like generator to proceed. This could be compared to the destruction of a similarly tower-like generator in Duke Nukem 3D Episode 2 Level 4.

I'm certain more similarities that may* count as references can be identified.

* Of course there is often no telling whether the level designers consciously made a reference to a point in a previous game or just were using what they thought a good design element, puzzle or trap.

[Hendricks266]

How far have you played through the original Duke Nukem? I've played through all three episodes (a long time ago) and from what I remember the helicopter is a recurring enemy and the spinning, loud, blue annoying laser things that you have to shoot are also present in many levels, sometimes with more than one in a room IIRC.

Also, Blood.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

 Hendricks266, on 29 May 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

How far have you played through the original Duke Nukem? I've played through all three episodes (a long time ago) and from what I remember the helicopter is a recurring enemy and the spinning, loud, blue annoying laser things that you have to shoot are also present in many levels, sometimes with more than one in a room IIRC.

They were in Duke Nukem 2 as well, and Duke Nukem 3D had something similar with the reactors.

[MrFlibble]

Yep, I know that the chopper in Duke Nukem is a recurring enemy, but I pointed to the first time it shows up - it's somewhat tougher than the enemies you encounter before, and although far from being a boss enemy, it could be a kind of a memorable spot - a battle with a helicopter on a rooftop? after all, hits multiple archetypes and cliches, apart from generally being cool. Since DNMP was a turn back to the side-scrolling platformer genre, it was only natural that the developers include nods to the previous, similar games in the series.

Once again, the things I'm talking about aren't always obvious, unlike the Duke reference in Blood you mention that explicitly features the character (or, likewise, the appearance of Doomguy in Duke Nukem 3D E1L3, or Lara Croft in Shadow Warrior E1L4).

I also wonder if the RPV enemies in Duke Nukem 3D could have been inspired by the shuttles that Duke can ride in Duke Nukem II.

[MrFlibble]

Here's a fine example of the kind of reference I have in mind - it's not about Duke Nukem games though. In the first level of a somewhat obscure 1995 shareware flying shooter, Radix: Beyond the Void, there's a room that is immediately recognizable. As Mecha-neko put it,

Quote

Wait a minute, I know this place. Let me turn off the HUD and swing this thing around.


It's that room from Doom! (External link)

The reference to Doom here is pretty obvious, yet it does not use any imagery directly associated with that game, nor mentions the title. It relies entirely on the recognizable geometry, a combination of shapes that reminds of an area many people have undoubtedly seen becuase it's in the first level of the shareware episode.

[MrFlibble]

BTW, I think it can also be considered a reference that the new menu font that was introduced in Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition resembles the menu font in Duke Nukem II.

And a more obvious one: the third Duke3D episode uses the same title as the first episode of the first Duke Nukem game.

[MrFlibble]

Got around to do high-res shots of both secret rooms in Duke3D and SW: