[Gambini]

MetHy, on 03 March 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

I don't see the connection with what I said

then you ´re needing glasses.

Quote

It lives wasn't a horror map, at least that was the expression i got.

Yes it was, but please do not get me involved in another off topic conversation. I don´t want to be offensive towards Eddy nor start comparing what I do with what he does.

Ultimately it seems that honest, direct opinions only lead into personal attacks.

[Hank]

Mikko_Sandt, on 03 March 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

I actually saw that link but the site doesn't seem to contain any actual information about SCP because even the so-called information section is written in some kind of in-character style.

I put this in another spoiler for just in case

Spoiler

The concept is sort of a mind play, it can't furnish concrete data otherwise your mind can't wander playing out the horror you yourself ought to provide. Reading my own post, I admit that it sounds stupidbut I have no better way to define it.

In this case: You decent a dark stairwell you never knew existed. You don't know what will happen. Will you permit your mind to wander while going down the stairwell? How far down are you willing to venture? And so on. For me, with my childish imagination, I love it.

[MetHy]

Gambini, on 03 March 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Ultimately it seems that honest, direct opinions only lead into personal attacks.

What personal attacks ? Honest direct opinions lead to other honest direct opinions. It's not like I used dog names to describe your mother.

You gave your honest opinion saying that the experience is "lame" and that this isn't even a usermap.

I compared what is comparable : how successful in being scary 2 horror usermaps were (which btw is very far from being as harsh as you were).

[Gambini]

Since you combined your words in such a way: "you tried to pull out" I have the right to assume you´re implying that my map´s scary setups didn´t work at all. Which is being disdainful, considering how little these two projects can be comparable. My map weights 14 times less and has 179 more enemies plus lasts about 30 minutes more and isn´t about repeating the same chore for 10 minutes with the only reward of seeing a scary face,

And I´m not being too harsh, maybe other people are being too nice. The joy of playing such a strange concept map escapes me, it´s eleven fucking minutes walking down a 64 stories staircase. Granted, the environmental sounds make up for it a little bit, but it is still way too long. And at the point of facing that thing you have already figured all possible endings.

[thatguy]

Is this the same one posted in AdventureGamers.com? I still haven't played it so I don't know. On that forum I stated that the whole scp site is REALLY awesome. I'd love to do one of the stories.

[MetHy]

Gambini, on 03 March 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Since you combined your words in such a way: "you tried to pull out" I have the right to assume you´re implying that my map´s scary setups didn´t work at all. Which is being disdainful, considering how little these two projects can be comparable. My map weights 14 times less and has 179 more enemies plus lasts about 30 minutes more and isn´t about repeating the same chore for 10 minutes with the only reward of seeing a scary face,

And I´m not being too harsh, maybe other people are being too nice. The joy of playing such a strange concept map escapes me, it´s eleven fucking minutes walking down a 64 stories staircase. Granted, the environmental sounds make up for it a little bit, but it is still way too long. And at the point of facing that thing you have already figured all possible endings.

You're changing subject here. How big the maps are, or how long they took to make, does not matter. I'm talking about horror elements. What matters to me is the feelings I got out of them when playing them. It Lives is a great usermap, but as far as horror goes, it was gimmicky. For example you tried to scare me with windows that move back&forth quickly by themselves. How I felt about that : cool little trick which I have no idea how you made (that trick alone might have taken just as long to make as Stairwell itself), but boring gimmick. It does not try to look for something inside me. It does not unsettles me, or makes me think.

Stairwell might have taken 2 days to make, but when playing it at least I felt something. It made me wonder things and made me use my imagination. What are those stairs doing here? What is waiting for me down there ? Is there even anything waiting for me down there? and if so, when is it going to appear?

However Eddy has got not credits for this map because it's not his idea; and that's also why the map loses some of its potential. It's a remake of a game that was already remade before based on a story that already existed. It's getting old now. Use another SCP already.
But even then, it still worked somehow...

If I had to compare the horror elements of those two maps to horror movies (and extrapolate a lot), It Lives is like Drag Me To Hell and SCP-087 is like The Thing.

Edit : things are talking for themselves:

rasmus thorup, on 03 March 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

It lives wasn't a horror map, at least that was the expression i got.

[Gambini]

I wasn´t changing subjects. You said the point was on comparision so i made some comparisions where my map would have acquit well.

However, i realize what you mean now and i´m glad you felt all that when playing this map. Pretty different from what I felt, that was "i know there´s going to be a horrible face jumping right on my face duh but why i have to wait so long for that?". I was right, after about 10/11 minutes i finally saw the face i was expecting and the level ended. Why I expected a face? because it´s the most abused resource used in horror mods/maps/games/flash jokes. And I know Eddy plays it safe and goes for stories that already worked in other underworlds (which is a point i already stated lots of times and is not the matter of discussion rigth now).

I have never seen horror movies, that puts me in a huge disadvantage when it comes to talk about those. Fact is that. I doubt anybody is able to build tension in a usermap using the stock content. Go compare my map with Red series, Dark Places or Rural Nightmare if you want. Those are also horror maps and do their work as my map does. I don´t think mine reachs the quality of red5 i.e but it can get by decently. My primary goal was to make it as scary and enjoyable as possible using no external content. I´d like to keep writting but i have some work to do

[MetHy]

Gambini, on 03 March 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

I doubt anybody is able to build tension in a usermap using the stock content. Go compare my map with Red series, Dark Places or Rural Nightmare if you want.

Rural Nightmare worked great on me the first time I played it.

[zykov eddy]

Gambini, on 03 March 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Pretty lame experience if you ask me. The soundscape is cool and well done but to the point i began to hear it, I was already tired of walking and walking and walking. Not to mention there´s a visual glitch with the stair sprites that, while it could go unnoticed, it doesn´t because you see it 128 times (two per each floor).

As an experiment and a tribute to SCP 087 (of what i have no idea what it is but I´ll assume it´s about walking down stairs endlessly) it may be good, but cheating on Duke players to make them play this thinking it´s an usermap is a crime.

The face is cool though, I may have liked it if the sequence happened at floor 14.

I understand your complaints and agree, for a standart usermap it's pretty specific.

C'mon guys, it's just an experemental map. It was made for a few days, don't try to compare it to a bigger releases like It Lives. (As Gambini said, It Lives doesn't uses any new textures and con hacks. and I think it still creates a great atmosphere).

Peace.

[rasmus thorup]

Gambini, on 03 March 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

then you ´re needing glasses.



Yes it was, but please do not get me involved in another off topic conversation. I don´t want to be offensive towards Eddy nor start comparing what I do with what he does.

Ultimately it seems that honest, direct opinions only lead into personal attacks.

If you don't want to get involved in another off topic conversation, stop posts. To me it sounds like you are defending your map. Which is very personal.

[thatguy]

So I discovered there are two versions of SCP-087. lol The eduke one and a standalone one. Check it out http://www.adventure...ead.php?t=30440. lol


EDIT: Finally read the first post. Thats cool. I still don't have the balls to play the other version. :/

EDIT 2: I hate you I hate you I hate you I hate you. Great job on this map. Seriously kept me on the edge of the seat. For the first 20 floors I just walked my way down. Then after that I forced myself to RUN/Fast Walk. Thank you.....now I don't want to play the other one. :/

[Jblade]

Eddy didn't really present this as anything more than a little experiment, so I think you're being a bit harsh gambini. As great as your map was, it suffers from the same problems that all the other spooky Duke maps do - the lack of custom content means you can't really suprise the player. Eddy's stuff is more frightening simply because since it's using new content and so can throw things at me I haven't seen before. Don't get me wrong, there was a few creepy elemens and scripted sequences that were fantastic (Like the chicken sacrifice room and the door being welded open)

I don't mean any disrespect towards the authors who stick to using Duke's normal stuff, it's just that playing sounds like the unused monster sounds don't work because I know that none of the Duke enemies use those noises. In a custom map it could be the sound of a huge monster I'm not expecting. In a stock usermap I know it's just scripted.

[zykov eddy]

s.b.Newsom, on 04 March 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

EDIT 2: I hate you I hate you I hate you I hate you. Great job on this map. Seriously kept me on the edge of the seat. For the first 20 floors I just walked my way down. Then after that I forced myself to RUN/Fast Walk. Thank you.....now I don't want to play the other one. :/

I'm glad that this scared the shit out of ya

Honeslty, I haven't even tried to beat the original game, I just watched someone's playthough. I'm too scared of this game.

James, on 04 March 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Eddy didn't really present this as anything more than a little experiment, so I think you're being a bit harsh gambini. As great as your map was, it suffers from the same problems that all the other spooky Duke maps do - the lack of custom content means you can't really suprise the player. Eddy's stuff is more frightening simply because since it's using new content and so can throw things at me I haven't seen before. Don't get me wrong, there was a few creepy elemens and scripted sequences that were fantastic (Like the chicken sacrifice room and the door being welded open)

I don't mean any disrespect towards the authors who stick to using Duke's normal stuff, it's just that playing sounds like the unused monster sounds don't work because I know that none of the Duke enemies use those noises. In a custom map it could be the sound of a huge monster I'm not expecting. In a stock usermap I know it's just scripted.

Thank you again James, this sums it all up

[Sebastian]

I probably won't be able to play it but I sat through that whole movie without reading (much) of the comments. I think it's a genius idea by whoever came up with it. It's a perfect example of letting your imagination fill in the blanks while subcoinciously sinking yourself into this deep trance by doing a repetitive action. It's psychology 101, but terribly effective.

If anything, I didn't think the ghost payoff was superb, I would rather have it without the ghost "glitches" on screen (but keep the face at the bottom!) and just hear random rustling/running/breathing behind the player and briefly cut to black to simulate the lights going out while you run.

[Gambini]

@James: I know you´re a respectful guy, but I think you´re getting the wrong impresion about me. I didn´t bring my map into this conversation, I only answered Methy, who in my opinion deliberately threw a stone knowing that it would lead into an argument.

Unless the subject of discussion is a facsimile of something of mine, I will never bring my stuff into someone else´s thread. I hate when people do that, and so i avoid to do the same. But if someone says something like what Methy said, it calls for a retort. You know some people consider my work great, you´ll even hear things like the best this, the most that, etc etc but true is that I´m not that arrogant as people thinks and when I post in a release thread I do it with the mere intention of giving the author feedback, which is a great reward for people like all of us, that do not get anything else (besides selfsatisfaction) by our work. Now, if i have to be a complacent with everybody and say them things lke "superawesomestunning the best moment of my life" I prefer to restrain myself to post then.

Come to think of it, if I were such a narcisist person, I could have said to Methy that his voice has no weight because the only thing he released had to be pushed out by another guy and even then is a map that would come hurt of any comparission with my latest map. That is not what I think, but is the kind of harsh argument I sense people thinks I´m using to debate. Almost every fucking time I say something that is not a praise I see people using ad hominen arguments to counter my words. The fact I have a fetish with vanilla maps doesn´t mean i consider other styles crap. I´ve been ignoring some coments with the intention of not feeding this discussion I didn´t even start but people keeps adding stuff to the pile of shit and I´m getting tired.

edit: changed contrarest by counter. I seem to be inventing new words lately.

[Jblade]

Quote

@James: I know you´re a respectful guy, but I think you´re getting the wrong impresion about me. I didn´t bring my map into this conversation, I only answered Methy, who in my opinion deliberately threw a stone knowing that it would lead into an argument.

True, I did know that it wasn't you who brought your map up, I didn't want to mention it myself but it seemed part of the argument so I added it in - I respect the map a great deal since it has done lots of effects I haven't seen or even thought of before (The flies buzzing by the lamp outside the first area is one of them) I'm sorry if it felt like I was attacking your map since that definitly wasn't the intention (It was more to highlight the differences I saw between the maps and Eddy's mod) Met's post was a bit vitrolic, but I think it's down to a misunderstanding to the tone of your post (which happens often alot here with many different people, only a few people here are actually native English speakers) I definitly don't think you were trying to brag though for what it's worth - you and DT are both family men and so left that kind of bad behaviour behind long ago.

About the last bit though, Met's been in the community for a long time so the number/amount of releases he has shouldn't be a bearing on how he should be taken. He always offers a solid opinion on maps (in my view)

[Gambini]

Yeah I don´t think that of Methy. I only meant that if I really wanted to fight, i would have hit him where it hurts the most.

[MetHy]

James, on 04 March 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Met's post was a bit vitrolic, but I think it's down to a misunderstanding to the tone of your post

It's not the tone, it's how he claimed he can give the definition of what is a usermap and what is not that tickled me a little

[zykov eddy]

TheCommander asked if I could make a standalone version by using a shareware version of DN3D. I tried it and couldn't run the maps (the first and the second one). What can I do to make it work correctly?

[MetHy]

I'd say use Duke1.3 or 1.4, put the duke3D grp with your map, but get rid of any material you haven't used (maps, songs, textures, monsters, etc).

You barely used 1% of what's in the grp so I doubt you'll get complains if you release that.

Would that still be illegal? Probably. But don't forget to claim this was made using DN3D and that you can buy it on 3DRealms.com and everybody should be happy.

[Danukem]

Removing all that stuff is a lot of work, plus the game will not work when certain tiles are removed, even if the tiles don't appear in the map, so it has to be done carefully.

[zykov eddy]

Actually, it's not that hard, I did that two times before. The only problem I had is when I removed the title #1141 and forgot to put something instead of it. After that the menu freaked out.

[CruX]

zykov eddy, on 05 March 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Actually, it's not that hard, I did that two times before. The only problem I had is when I removed the title #1141 and forgot to put something instead of it. After that the menu freaked out.

You can always just use the display menu (hurr) event.

[Forge]

Finally got around to checking this out.

I had no prior knowledge of what these SCP's are all about, but it's not really my cup of tea. It just didn't work on me in particular.

It was all well done; the setup was proper, the atmosphere was right, the ambient sounds were done to create a sense of urgency and uncertainty.

I think by the time I reached the 35th floor I was more in a hurry to get to the bottom to see the pay off more than I was tense about when it would jump out at me.

[Blue Lightning]

I dont get it. I just watched the video and I didnt see any enemies. Am I missing something?

As far as the atmosphere goes, very creepy...me likes! Reminds me of the most spooky game I ever played, Condemend: Criminal Origins.

[thatguy]

Blue Lightning, on 06 March 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

I dont get it. I just watched the video and I didnt see any enemies. Am I missing something?

As far as the atmosphere goes, very creepy...me likes! Reminds me of the most spooky game I ever played, Condemend: Criminal Origins.

Not everything needs to be combat oriented. :|

[The Commander]

zykov eddy, on 05 March 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Actually, it's not that hard, I did that two times before. The only problem I had is when I removed the title #1141 and forgot to put something instead of it. After that the menu freaked out.

Yes, if you remove any tiles that are used hard coded the game tends to crash if you go to them menus etc.
If on the off chance you have my crappy DTA mod you could try the DUKE3D.GRP from that(70-80% of the Duke tiles are removed from that, otherwise I could just post it here.

[zykov eddy]

Finally made a standalone release (took me a few hours to make this version).
Almost all DN3D content was removed (except of some textures and con code). I also added more objects on the map and fixed some bugs.
The face in the end can now appear on a random floor (from 50 to 65).

You can play this version with any renderer, even polymer (I recommend Polymost, though).

If you already played the original mod, I don't think it's worth of playing this version. This version was made for some gaming forums outside the Duke 3D scene.
You can post this version on any gaming forum, like the one s.b.Newsom posted. I'll appreciate it.





Dowbload (16 mb)

[Mikko]

http://msdn.duke4.net/hotstairwell.php

[zykov eddy]

Mikko_Sandt, on 10 March 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

http://msdn.duke4.net/hotstairwell.php

Thanks Mikko! This review was a nice surprise