[EliasCamber]

Here's the full story about what happened to DNR:

http://meny-graphics.dk/?p=1218

Apparently several people have tried to post this on the Gearbox forums, and the banhammer there is flying fast and furious, with people like Altered Reality and fuegerstef being banned for mentioning it, and their posts immediately deleted. WTF Gearbox?

EDIT: The link appears to be down. In the fight against censorship, I saved the info in this post: http://forums.duke4....post__p__120048

[----]

EliasCamber, on 12 February 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

... fuegerstef being banned for mentioning it, and their posts immediately deleted. WTF Gearbox?

I was being banned for finally mentioning in public that AdamF of Gearbox called me a liar while I was only stating that GEarbox might not have decided to put Reloaded on hold, but that they were responsible for Interceptor's decision. The deleted thread was started by someone else not related to DN3DR at all, and that person didn't get banned.

I knew it was coming and even hit the "reload" button on the browser to finally see the ban page.

[ReaperMan]

Moral of story, never trust "the man".

[Jimmy]

I wish we would institute the same rules here. Frederik Schreiber is a Ralph Macchio wanna-be. He should seriously just shut the fuck up.

[xMobilemux]

The Game business is now the movie business which means "You don't tell the people the truth, make a lie and enforce it!! If the people reveal the truth........ SILENCE THEM!!!!"

[----]

We all know about the differences between many members here and Interceptor and that Reloaded had its problems.


But in all honesty, if you read these parts:

Interceptor: "Answer me honestly – Were you ever going to plan on letting us release or share media from Reloaded?"

Gearbox: "We can’t give you an answer to that." !!!!!!!!!

and then

Gearbox: "Ofcourse you can keep working on it, if you want to. But we can’t tell you if we will allow the game to be released."


this is a slap in the face of the artists who spent a whole lot of work on it.

[Hank]

Wolfe, on 12 February 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

I wish we would institute the same rules here. Frederik Schreiber is a Ralph Macchio wanna-be. He should seriously just shut the fuck up.

I'm with Wolfe on this one.
Unless I hear from Gearbox I take the flamboyant web page (like he needs a lot) from fresh as malice against Gearbox. All Gearbox wanted is for fresh to stop with his hype. But he can't stop.

[Jimmy]

I concur, but I think Fresch probably should have been more prepared and a better team manager. He's had a history of fuck ups, and this is just another potato in the sack. He should have been very leery of GBX in the first place, and cut the bullshit back in the beginning by having a written document stating they could release the game. He also shouldn't have prematurely ejaculated everywhere with shitty media, promo-posts, and hype. I lay the fault more on him than GBX. I trust GBX to make shitty decisions, I wouldn't take a 'maybe' at face value from them. He should have known better.

[EliasCamber]

Up to this point I've been fairly supportive of Gearbox, but IMO this really crosses the line. You don't give a company the right to make a DN game and then tell them they can't release any media about it, and then give that BS about "Ofcourse you can keep working on it, if you want to. But we can’t tell you if we will allow the game to be released"!

Sure, fresch has his faults, but I think DNR would still have been a great game. If you read the next-to-last blog post, Allen Blum really loved the build he was shown, and he knows Duke better than anyone.

This decision by GBX doesn't even make much business sense: DNR, if released after the last DNF DLC, would be a great way of sustaining interest in Duke Nukem, especially since GBX has apparently made the decision never to release mod tools. So I can completely understand GBX requiring Interceptor to postpone DNR's release until they had finished making content for DNF. But to basically say it can never be released? That's just messed up.

[----]

Wolfe, on 12 February 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

I concur, but I think Fresch probably should have been more prepared and a better team manager. He's had a history of fuck ups, and this is just another potato in the sack. He should have been very leery of GBX in the first place, and cut the bullshit back in the beginning by having a written document stating they could release the game. He also shouldn't have prematurely ejaculated everywhere with shitty media, promo-posts, and hype. I lay the fault more on him than GBX. I trust GBX to make shitty decisions, I wouldn't take a 'maybe' at face value from them. He should have known better.

Yes. I think a lot people learned a lot lessons.

[Mad Max RW]

Good to see everybody involved finally admitting to what those of us with enough common sense had assumed long ago. In short, fresch was in over his head dealing with corporate types and US lawyers.

Oh, and Gearbox is full of shit.

[ReaperMan]

I wouldn't put it past Gearbox to do such a thing like this and even though i'm not a fan of Fresch, i'm happy to hear that things are starting to work out for him.

Maybe this is just my vengeful nature, but since you guys got so much press from the game community for DNR maybe you should submit this piece of news the the press and get it out there, that way you can have the last laugh.

[Jimmy]

I don't see how anyone can put blame on GBX, because I would have suspected them not wanting to play along from the very beginning, coupled with the fact that it's pretty easy to dig up how much Fresch sucks and that the builds were pretty lackluster, especially considering the hype, GBX was probably hoping the team would can the project itself and not have to get a bad rap for it.

[BugsBunny]

I just can not believe that Gearbox took such an active part in destroying a eagerly awaited project related to Duke ! I now feel absolutely miserable in supporting them with my $ 240 for buying two versions of DNF on release day ( DNF BOSE PC and DNF King Ed PC ). Surely I will re-consider buying anything from GBX on release day from now on, and wait for their games to go down to $ 5/ $ 10 bargain bin titles before buying them. Dont think they deserve any more support from me.

[----]

Wolfe, on 12 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

... hoping the team would can the project itself and not have to get a bad rap for it.

Just kidding a bit ... but shouldn't have Gearbox hoped that DNF was canned too ?

[ReaperMan]

Wolfe, on 12 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

I don't see how anyone can put blame on GBX, because I would have suspected them not wanting to play along from the very beginning, coupled with the fact that it's pretty easy to dig up how much Fresch sucks and that the builds were pretty lackluster, especially considering the hype, GBX was probably hoping the team would can the project itself and not have to get a bad rap for it.

Yeah, that could be a possibility, but we don't really know for sure. Both sides are going to be biased.

[Jimmy]

You'd be right.

[Micky C]

Wolfe, on 12 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

I don't see how anyone can put blame on GBX

BugsBunny, on 12 February 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

I just can not believe that Gearbox took such an active part in destroying a eagerly awaited project related to Duke

I can tell you why gearbox sure as hell deserves part of the blame. The don't care about the Duke IP, period.

[----]

But then GBX should have been straight from the beginning (at the meeting where a build was shown to them and they said they liked it a lot) instead of letting some very good and young talents do work for nothing.

I mean, the assets were really good for free work.

Just my opinion, because the modellers and texturers only hoped to create stuff for an IP they liked and to get their work out there ... some for their portfolios, others for the love for Duke and most for both reasons.

[Jimmy]

Micky C, on 12 February 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

I can tell you why gearbox sure as hell deserves part of the blame. The don't care about the Duke IP, period.

Yeah, you can blame the for not giving a shit about the Duke IP, I'd agree on that. However, you can't blame them for the whole Reloaded Debacle, because them not giving a shit is pretty much a given. I mean just look at the official DNF delay they did. Holy shit, what a way to totally squeeze another case of blue balls into your consumers... In that vein, Interceptor should have been very much aware that GBX probably wouldn't give a shit about them, or their project.

[ReaperMan]

If i was in charge of DNR i would of spamed screenshots across the internet just to fuck with Gearbox and make them care.

[----]

Wolfe, on 12 February 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Yeah, you can blame the for not giving a shit about the Duke IP, I'd agree on that. However, you can't blame them for the whole Reloaded Debacle, because them not giving a shit is pretty much a given. I mean just look at the official DNF delay they did. Holy shit, what a way to totally squeeze another case of blue balls into your consumers... In that vein, Interceptor should have been very much aware that GBX probably wouldn't give a shit about them, or their project.

To be fair again: Most of the people involved didn't know too much about Gearbox' behaviour. The "license" (or whatever you would call that) was given a few months before DNF was released. So most of the people didn't have anything to do with Gearbox before. And nobody knew what DNF would become in the end and how GBX/2K handel DNF.

[Hank]

fuegerstef, on 12 February 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

But then GBX should have been straight from the beginning (at the meeting where a build was shown to them and they said they liked it a lot) instead of letting some very good and young talents do work for nothing.

I mean, the assets were really good for free work.

Just my opinion, because the modellers and texturers only hoped to create stuff for an IP they liked and to get their work out there ... some for their portfolios, others for the love for Duke and most for both reasons.

Unlike you I didn't have access to the material. All I gathered was stuff produced by Interceptor for ehmm, shall we say hype purposes. Should this guy ever produce something playable I'll shut up. Until then, we have yet one more web page making sweeping statements, most likely taken out of context, to shed light on the truth? It makes fresh shine! Too simple.

IMO fresh got a license to make a game with the trademark Duke Nukem. He himself wrote somewhere that this license is still in effect. Now considering the shit fresh produced so far ( as per TX) do you blame Gearbox having second thoughts about letting them release anything without it being tested first? Or making a one hundred percent commitment to an unknown developer? They would be asinine to do so. Meanwhile fresh refused to tone down his hype, but never stated anywhere that he is actually in preach of contract by doing so. Nah, not pretty boy fresh, he is so cool. Fuck him.

Just in case: I am in no way a fan of Gearbox. I did not wait to get banned, I simply left.

[rasmus thorup]

It's hard to break through the barrier as new game makers. The team took a chance with DNR, if they succeeded, it would have been really great for them.

[----]

Hank, on 12 February 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

He himself wrote somewhere that this license is still in effect.

As far as I understand the article (I might be wrong, English is not my first language) it was basically Gearbox who made him write it:

"The following day we wanted to post the news on our website. Gearbox Software wanted to read proof the message, to make sure it didn’t send a bad signal.
I got a message by email, which I was going to post on our website:"

And then the "official statement" follows.


To me it sounds like Gearbox wrote that statement or at least parts of it. Or am I misunderstaning it?

PS: Of course I don't know the original, unedited message that was planned to be posted before GBX proofread it. Just saying. I am trying to get a neutral view on matters here.

PPS: I might add that the first thread on the GBX forums about this article was only locked before it was deleted. And in the last message ChrisF of Gearbox again wrote the official "The license is still in effect" quote we all read so many times. That makes me guess (and nothing more) that this is GBX' statement.

[Jimmy]

I've pretty much stated my point here, but I have nothing against the rest of the DNR team as far as what I know about them. You're a cool cat, Fueger, and I don't know many of the others. Fresch however is a stanky douche that hurt you guys, hurt ex-Duke3D Remake developers (who actually made more progress but got shit-canned, DNR was the only one ever given a sliver of a chance), and hurt the community. (He also practically invited a barrage of dumbass newbs to start posting here.)

[Arwu]

I do not know much but why DNR developers cant change title and change appearance of Duke etc. just to pass over licence ? or maybe game engine is also under licence ?

[Hank]

fuegerstef, on 12 February 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

As far as I understand the article (I might be wrong, English is not my first language) it was basically Gearbox who made him write it:

"The following day we wanted to post the news on our website. Gearbox Software wanted to read proof the message, to make sure it didn't send a bad signal.
I got a message by email, which I was going to post on our website:"

And then the "official statement" follows.


To me it sounds like Gearbox wrote that statement or at least parts of it. Or am I misunderstaning it?

PS: Of course I don't know the original, unedited message that was planned to be posted before GBX proofread it. Just saying. I am trying to get a neutral view on matters here.

PPS: I might add that the first thread on the GBX forums about this article was only locked before it was deleted. And in the last message ChrisF of Gearbox again wrote the official "The license is still in effect" quote we all read so many times. That makes me guess (and nothing more) that this is GBX' statement.

English is also not my first language. To be frank, I don't know either. Here I'm between a stone and a rock. I trust neither (Gearbox nor Frederic). All I know is, make your own stuff and have fun with it.

[----]

Arwu, on 12 February 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

I do not know much but why DNR developers cant change title and change appearance of Duke etc. just to pass over licence ? or maybe game engine is also under licence ?

Basically everything created for that project is owned by Gearbox.

[Hank]

fuegerstef, on 12 February 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Basically everything created for that project is owned by Gearbox.

Are you serious?