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DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
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Man of Valor.zip (47.86K)
Number of downloads: 465
Duke Nukem: The Man of Valor. "7 part mission."
#1 Posted 28 January 2012 - 04:38 PM
The Aliens return and take our women, and it's up to Duke to save the world... again... Fight as Duke and destroy the aliens in Duke Nukem: The Man of Valor!
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#2 Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:08 PM
Rule number one: Don't publish your first work, especially when all it took you was a few minutes. You've still got a lot to learn.
#3 Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:32 PM
Mikko_Sandt, on 28 January 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:
Rule number one: Don't publish your first work, especially when all it took you was a few minutes. You've still got a lot to learn.
Hey, Fuck that, it took me at least 2 days on that. It's my first time I'm still working out the kinks, my next project will be a lot better, trust me.
#4 Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:38 PM
Is this actually the finished project? o.O
Don't listen to mikko_sandt. This is ofcourse a masterpiece.
Don't listen to mikko_sandt. This is ofcourse a masterpiece.
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#5 Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:49 PM
Never Forgotten, on 28 January 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:
Hey, Fuck that, it took me at least 2 days on that.
Well I could do all that in about two minutes.
For comparison's sake, it usually takes months to finish just one map.
I don't mean to put you down or anything, we've all been there, but that's exactly why you shouldn't publish your first work.
This post has been edited by Mikko_Sandt: 28 January 2012 - 05:49 PM
- Honored Donor
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#6 Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:55 PM
There's nothing wrong with publishing your first work, but after reading Mikko's comment I was interested to see what you actually did, and well, I have some things to say.
The real rule number 1, is don't bother making any maps unless they're at least as detailed as the original maps made by 3D Realms. At least. I don't know if you've checked out any other user made maps before making your own, but the stuff that's out these days makes the original maps look very skimpy with details, hence they are considered the bare minimum. If you look at your own maps, they have 0 details.
There is no shading. There doesn't have to be shadows, but every surface looks the same, which makes it hard to tell where to go, and even then, it's hard to tell where to go. I didn't bother playing through this properly, I gave myself unlimited health and jetpack and all weapons, and ran through the first few levels without killing anything. I think there was a hidden door needed to finish the level, and I cheated to find it, and hiding essential doors with no indication of where they are or even that they exist is a big no no. That applies to all essential items as well.
Back to Mikko's comment, I hate to say it but it really does look like you only spent a few minutes on it (assuming that you already knew how to map, although we know that's not the case). Even then, you've got 6 maps in that zip (7 if you include that 10 second edit of e1l1), and nobody spends 2 days on one map let alone six. So don't feel pissed off when people don't like the work which you worked on for a matter of days, when many other people work on their maps for a matter of weeks or even months (a good map should be at least a month, even for the super fast pro mappers, because they'd try to make something very high quality.)
Now in all honesty, your maps are not worth playing, an 8 year old has recently made something more detailed (although granted he's the son of one of the best mappers ever). And once again don't be upset, because the time you spent on it is a sliver of a fraction of the time everyone else spends. Having said that, don't be discouraged, you say you're going to make something a lot better, and I believe you. Take your time, have a look at the original maps, but definitely have a look at some good custom maps before you start making your next one. Your work can only get better with each map you release, but bare in mind that people won't hail your next map as the next coming of christ or anything, it'll probably take you a few more full maps before you can consider yourself competent.
Edit: wow, that's a lot of posts since I started typing...
The real rule number 1, is don't bother making any maps unless they're at least as detailed as the original maps made by 3D Realms. At least. I don't know if you've checked out any other user made maps before making your own, but the stuff that's out these days makes the original maps look very skimpy with details, hence they are considered the bare minimum. If you look at your own maps, they have 0 details.
There is no shading. There doesn't have to be shadows, but every surface looks the same, which makes it hard to tell where to go, and even then, it's hard to tell where to go. I didn't bother playing through this properly, I gave myself unlimited health and jetpack and all weapons, and ran through the first few levels without killing anything. I think there was a hidden door needed to finish the level, and I cheated to find it, and hiding essential doors with no indication of where they are or even that they exist is a big no no. That applies to all essential items as well.
Back to Mikko's comment, I hate to say it but it really does look like you only spent a few minutes on it (assuming that you already knew how to map, although we know that's not the case). Even then, you've got 6 maps in that zip (7 if you include that 10 second edit of e1l1), and nobody spends 2 days on one map let alone six. So don't feel pissed off when people don't like the work which you worked on for a matter of days, when many other people work on their maps for a matter of weeks or even months (a good map should be at least a month, even for the super fast pro mappers, because they'd try to make something very high quality.)
Now in all honesty, your maps are not worth playing, an 8 year old has recently made something more detailed (although granted he's the son of one of the best mappers ever). And once again don't be upset, because the time you spent on it is a sliver of a fraction of the time everyone else spends. Having said that, don't be discouraged, you say you're going to make something a lot better, and I believe you. Take your time, have a look at the original maps, but definitely have a look at some good custom maps before you start making your next one. Your work can only get better with each map you release, but bare in mind that people won't hail your next map as the next coming of christ or anything, it'll probably take you a few more full maps before you can consider yourself competent.
Edit: wow, that's a lot of posts since I started typing...
This post has been edited by Micky C: 28 January 2012 - 05:55 PM
#7 Posted 28 January 2012 - 07:43 PM
Micky C, on 28 January 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:
There's nothing wrong with publishing your first work, but after reading Mikko's comment I was interested to see what you actually did, and well, I have some things to say.
The real rule number 1, is don't bother making any maps unless they're at least as detailed as the original maps made by 3D Realms. At least. I don't know if you've checked out any other user made maps before making your own, but the stuff that's out these days makes the original maps look very skimpy with details, hence they are considered the bare minimum. If you look at your own maps, they have 0 details.
There is no shading. There doesn't have to be shadows, but every surface looks the same, which makes it hard to tell where to go, and even then, it's hard to tell where to go. I didn't bother playing through this properly, I gave myself unlimited health and jetpack and all weapons, and ran through the first few levels without killing anything. I think there was a hidden door needed to finish the level, and I cheated to find it, and hiding essential doors with no indication of where they are or even that they exist is a big no no. That applies to all essential items as well.
Back to Mikko's comment, I hate to say it but it really does look like you only spent a few minutes on it (assuming that you already knew how to map, although we know that's not the case). Even then, you've got 6 maps in that zip (7 if you include that 10 second edit of e1l1), and nobody spends 2 days on one map let alone six. So don't feel pissed off when people don't like the work which you worked on for a matter of days, when many other people work on their maps for a matter of weeks or even months (a good map should be at least a month, even for the super fast pro mappers, because they'd try to make something very high quality.)
Now in all honesty, your maps are not worth playing, an 8 year old has recently made something more detailed (although granted he's the son of one of the best mappers ever). And once again don't be upset, because the time you spent on it is a sliver of a fraction of the time everyone else spends. Having said that, don't be discouraged, you say you're going to make something a lot better, and I believe you. Take your time, have a look at the original maps, but definitely have a look at some good custom maps before you start making your next one. Your work can only get better with each map you release, but bare in mind that people won't hail your next map as the next coming of christ or anything, it'll probably take you a few more full maps before you can consider yourself competent.
Edit: wow, that's a lot of posts since I started typing...
The real rule number 1, is don't bother making any maps unless they're at least as detailed as the original maps made by 3D Realms. At least. I don't know if you've checked out any other user made maps before making your own, but the stuff that's out these days makes the original maps look very skimpy with details, hence they are considered the bare minimum. If you look at your own maps, they have 0 details.
There is no shading. There doesn't have to be shadows, but every surface looks the same, which makes it hard to tell where to go, and even then, it's hard to tell where to go. I didn't bother playing through this properly, I gave myself unlimited health and jetpack and all weapons, and ran through the first few levels without killing anything. I think there was a hidden door needed to finish the level, and I cheated to find it, and hiding essential doors with no indication of where they are or even that they exist is a big no no. That applies to all essential items as well.
Back to Mikko's comment, I hate to say it but it really does look like you only spent a few minutes on it (assuming that you already knew how to map, although we know that's not the case). Even then, you've got 6 maps in that zip (7 if you include that 10 second edit of e1l1), and nobody spends 2 days on one map let alone six. So don't feel pissed off when people don't like the work which you worked on for a matter of days, when many other people work on their maps for a matter of weeks or even months (a good map should be at least a month, even for the super fast pro mappers, because they'd try to make something very high quality.)
Now in all honesty, your maps are not worth playing, an 8 year old has recently made something more detailed (although granted he's the son of one of the best mappers ever). And once again don't be upset, because the time you spent on it is a sliver of a fraction of the time everyone else spends. Having said that, don't be discouraged, you say you're going to make something a lot better, and I believe you. Take your time, have a look at the original maps, but definitely have a look at some good custom maps before you start making your next one. Your work can only get better with each map you release, but bare in mind that people won't hail your next map as the next coming of christ or anything, it'll probably take you a few more full maps before you can consider yourself competent.
Edit: wow, that's a lot of posts since I started typing...
Thanks, I am going to spend my time with my next map, and I'll do some shading and lighting as well.
~Duncan.
#8 Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:52 AM
Hey 
This maps are a joke ? Without cheating it is not possible to finish it . . I'm start second map, only pistol in hands and many monsters. . . :S . . Just learn more and more and start with small maps but more detailed 
learn how to shade and always remember that player must have tools for killing, of course medical items are also needed, but do not put too much of these because level should be a little challenging 
This maps are a joke ? Without cheating it is not possible to finish it . . I'm start second map, only pistol in hands and many monsters. . . :S . . Just learn more and more and start with small maps but more detailed learn how to shade and always remember that player must have tools for killing, of course medical items are also needed, but do not put too much of these because level should be a little challenging
#9 Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:54 AM
Arwu, on 29 January 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:
Hey This maps are a joke ? Without cheating it is not possible to finish it . . I'm start second map, only pistol in hands and many monsters. . . :S . . Just learn more and more and start with small maps but more detailed learn how to shade and always remember that player must have tools for killing, of course medical items are also needed, but do not put too much of these because level should be a little challenging
This maps are a joke ? Without cheating it is not possible to finish it . . I'm start second map, only pistol in hands and many monsters. . . :S . . Just learn more and more and start with small maps but more detailed learn how to shade and always remember that player must have tools for killing, of course medical items are also needed, but do not put too much of these because level should be a little challenging Yeah, my next will have more items around the map, more challenging Duke Nukem puzzles, and ammo during fights.
- I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...
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#10 Posted 29 January 2012 - 01:06 PM
Here I was thinking that my "Duke Nightmare" map was ass, but this takes the cake...
#11 Posted 29 January 2012 - 01:53 PM
Sorry Commander, but everytime you mention that map God kills a kitty. Basically anything is better than that because you didn´t even made it. Even Sanek´s first releases were more ethical and valuable.
#12 Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:35 PM
I'm tired of the negativity around here about user maps.. Out of curiosity sake I'm downloading it and playing it as its meant to be played. I'll post back in a bit.
Gosh.. I played each map all the way through.. I'm not even sure why you used the original Duke maps included in your episode. It really didn't do anything for the series. Your maps definitely had a very wolfenstein 3d feel which was cool. But if you are going to release a map or even a map pack at least play test your map from start to finish to make sure all the doors work etc.... I found that I wasn't able to successfully complete most of the levels because doors or end level switches didn't work properly. Also, for the amount of enemies you had in the levels you didn't have enough ammo. Nor did you provide Duke with any guns to eliminate the volume of enemies in your map. When you did provide Duke with weapons it was at the end of the map but in order to get there you had to cheat. This doesn't really strike me as there being a lot of effort put into this map pack so I'm not too sure what you were expecting from the community?
Hopefully, you can take what you've learnt from these maps and try to make something with a bit better balance. Personally, I think you're holding back on us! Play testing is very important when mapping make sure you design a map that you can finish without cheating before posting it for other people to play. These maps are designed for cheats and cheats only. I will say though, I had a really fun time playing stadium with all those extra guys. Just wish there was more rocket ammo!
Everyone on these forums can learn from your maps. So thanks for sharing!
Gosh.. I played each map all the way through.. I'm not even sure why you used the original Duke maps included in your episode. It really didn't do anything for the series. Your maps definitely had a very wolfenstein 3d feel which was cool. But if you are going to release a map or even a map pack at least play test your map from start to finish to make sure all the doors work etc.... I found that I wasn't able to successfully complete most of the levels because doors or end level switches didn't work properly. Also, for the amount of enemies you had in the levels you didn't have enough ammo. Nor did you provide Duke with any guns to eliminate the volume of enemies in your map. When you did provide Duke with weapons it was at the end of the map but in order to get there you had to cheat. This doesn't really strike me as there being a lot of effort put into this map pack so I'm not too sure what you were expecting from the community?
Hopefully, you can take what you've learnt from these maps and try to make something with a bit better balance. Personally, I think you're holding back on us! Play testing is very important when mapping make sure you design a map that you can finish without cheating before posting it for other people to play. These maps are designed for cheats and cheats only. I will say though, I had a really fun time playing stadium with all those extra guys. Just wish there was more rocket ammo!
Everyone on these forums can learn from your maps. So thanks for sharing!
This post has been edited by Paul B: 29 January 2012 - 03:19 PM
- Music Producer
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#13 Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:39 PM
Paul B, on 29 January 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:
I'm tired of the negativity around here about user maps.. Out of curiousity sake i'm downloading it and playing it as its meant to be played. I'll post back in a bit.
You'll see. Anyway I don't think there's any negativity about user maps on this site.
Gambini, on 29 January 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:
Sorry Commander, but everytime you mention that map God kills a kitty. Basically anything is better than that because you didn´t even made it. Even Sanek´s first releases were more ethical and valuable.
Another Gambini quote for posterity......
This post has been edited by Norvak: 29 January 2012 - 02:40 PM
#14 Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:41 PM
Gambini, on 29 January 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:
Sorry Commander, but everytime you mention that map God kills a kitty. Basically anything is better than that because you didn´t even made it. Even Sanek´s first releases were more ethical and valuable.
Speaking of Sanek, where is he? Did he only visit DNR?
- Music Producer
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#15 Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:46 PM
Loke, on 29 January 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:
Speaking of Sanek, where is he? Did he only visit DNR?
He's enclosed with his "girlfriend" on that Gambini's map room.
EDIT: Can't imagine what he though when entering the forums and see all that pornbots and no one around.....
This post has been edited by Norvak: 29 January 2012 - 02:50 PM
- Honored Donor
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#16 Posted 29 January 2012 - 03:10 PM
Paul B, on 29 January 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:
I'm tired of the negativity around here about user maps.. Out of curiousity sake i'm downloading it and playing it as its meant to be played. I'll post back in a bit.
Gosh.. I played each map all the way through.. I'm not even sure why you used the orginal Duke maps included in your episode. It really didn't do anything for the series. It definitely had a very wolfenstein 3d feel. But if you are going to release a map or even a map pack at least play test your map from start to finish to make sure all the doors work etc.... I found that I wasn't able to successfully complete most of the levels because doors or end level switches didn't work properly. Also, for the amount of enemies you had in the map you didn't have enough ammo.. Nor did you provide Duke with any guns to eliminate the volume of enemies in your map and when you did provide weapons it was at the end of the map but in order to get there you had to cheat. This doesn't really strike me as there being a lot of effort put into this map pack so i'm not too sure what you were expecting from the community? Hopefully, you can take what you've learnt from these maps and try to make something with a bit better flow. Personally, I think you're holding back on us!
Gosh.. I played each map all the way through.. I'm not even sure why you used the orginal Duke maps included in your episode. It really didn't do anything for the series. It definitely had a very wolfenstein 3d feel. But if you are going to release a map or even a map pack at least play test your map from start to finish to make sure all the doors work etc.... I found that I wasn't able to successfully complete most of the levels because doors or end level switches didn't work properly. Also, for the amount of enemies you had in the map you didn't have enough ammo.. Nor did you provide Duke with any guns to eliminate the volume of enemies in your map and when you did provide weapons it was at the end of the map but in order to get there you had to cheat. This doesn't really strike me as there being a lot of effort put into this map pack so i'm not too sure what you were expecting from the community? Hopefully, you can take what you've learnt from these maps and try to make something with a bit better flow. Personally, I think you're holding back on us!
Haha, bit of a change of opinion eh Paul?
Makes me wonder if the person who downvoted my post actually looked at the maps before doing so.Take a look at level 7 for example, now as far as first maps go, this room isn't too badly detailed.
But then you go into the next room
then the next room...
then you find yourself outside
In all honesty there's no excuse for empty rooms like this, especially when they're all over the map.
Duncan, it might seem like I'm bashing the maps, and I guess I am. But at the end of the day, there's no denying that for someone who's learning to map, and who spent only 2 days on mapping, this isn't all that bad. So keep at it, and you will be able to make great things.
Norvak, on 29 January 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:
He's enclosed with his "girlfriend" on that Gambini's map room.
EDIT: Can't imagine what he though when entering the forums and see all that pornbots and no one around.....
EDIT: Can't imagine what he though when entering the forums and see all that pornbots and no one around.....
Hey, there are still active mappers there. I came across this thread in the "in the works" section called "british amateur milf AND boys don t cry sex ", it sure sounds like an interesting map!
This post has been edited by Micky C: 29 January 2012 - 03:25 PM
#17 Posted 29 January 2012 - 03:29 PM
Sanek surely entered DNR and saw he was banned (like everybody else by Puritan´s smart politic ). The difference here is that he was banned before already so most likely he thought it was for some different reason. Considering that a banned member can´t read the forum, i doubt he was able to know what was actually going on.
Somebody should let him know about CGS.
I downvoted you accidentally and could not undo by upvoting the post again. I don´t know what sense makes the rep system but if it is such a big deal for you, here´s your rep point again
). The difference here is that he was banned before already so most likely he thought it was for some different reason. Considering that a banned member can´t read the forum, i doubt he was able to know what was actually going on.Somebody should let him know about CGS.
Quote
Haha, bit of a change of opinion eh Paul? Makes me wonder if the person who downvoted my post actually looked at the maps before doing so.
I downvoted you accidentally and could not undo by upvoting the post again. I don´t know what sense makes the rep system but if it is such a big deal for you, here´s your rep point again
#18 Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:43 PM
Quick Question, do you guys like big maps? curious, because my next map is pretty big so far.
~Duncan
~Duncan
#19 Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:17 PM
It doesn´t matter how big is it. It´s all about how you use it.
Jokes aside, the size of a map will not determine its quality neither the audience it will be aimed to. I like some huge maps just as i like some other small maps but because both instances look and play good.
Make your map look good and not be boring to go across its lenght. In big maps usually the detailing is scattered to optimize the resources so it is crucial that you set a consistent theme and make everything look as part of it. Nobody likes huge squares, that´s for sure.
Jokes aside, the size of a map will not determine its quality neither the audience it will be aimed to. I like some huge maps just as i like some other small maps but because both instances look and play good.
Make your map look good and not be boring to go across its lenght. In big maps usually the detailing is scattered to optimize the resources so it is crucial that you set a consistent theme and make everything look as part of it. Nobody likes huge squares, that´s for sure.
This post has been edited by Gambini: 29 January 2012 - 07:17 PM
- I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...
-
#20 Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:12 PM
Gambini, on 29 January 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:
Sorry Commander, but everytime you mention that map God kills a kitty. Basically anything is better than that because you didn´t even made it. Even Sanek´s first releases were more ethical and valuable.
Did you even play any of these maps?
The very first map is the original E1L1 with a couple of textures and sprites changed/added.
I did a bit more by combining more than one level....
The other maps look like they were spat out from that program someone made years ago called "makemap" or something similar to this.
#21 Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:01 PM
Cody, on 29 January 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:
Did you even play any of these maps?
The very first map is the original E1L1 with a couple of textures and sprites changed/added.
I did a bit more by combining more than one level....
The other maps look like they were spat out from that program someone made years ago called "makemap" or something similar to this.
The very first map is the original E1L1 with a couple of textures and sprites changed/added.
I did a bit more by combining more than one level....
The other maps look like they were spat out from that program someone made years ago called "makemap" or something similar to this.
Commander fag, I'm going to ignore your fag ass commment, and wait for you to get off your fat ass and make something worth a fuck.
~Duncan.
- I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...
-
#22 Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:14 PM
Never Forgotten, on 29 January 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:
Commander fag, I'm going to ignore your fag ass commment, and wait for you to get off your fat ass and make something worth a fuck.
~Duncan.
~Duncan.
Maybe you could put some effort into your work and come up with something like this?
#23 Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:06 PM
For the record, I got curious as to what an exact half hour of mapping is like.
Here is what a near exact half-hour of Supertanker-style mapping is like. It's harder than I thought. Enjoy. (Reminds me a lot of my early maps.)
http://supertanker.duke4.net/L1_hi.map
Here is what a near exact half-hour of Supertanker-style mapping is like. It's harder than I thought. Enjoy. (Reminds me a lot of my early maps.)
http://supertanker.duke4.net/L1_hi.map
#24 Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:52 PM
Cody, on 29 January 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:
Maybe you could put some effort into your work and come up with something like this?
Cody, tell me how to do that with Mapster32, if you haven't noticed it's not that advanced... at least not the one I have, so stop acting like you're better and get the fuck out.
~Duncan
- Honored Donor
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#25 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:00 AM
The latest mapster32 can be found in this zip file: http://dukeworld.duk.../20120129-2301/
Of course, very little usually changes between mapster updates, and you would have been able to make the stuff Cody has been making with mapster a few years ago. The difference is that he isn't using the art files from Duke 3D, he's using different art. The level design itself and the lighting would be the same regardless of art though.
Of course, very little usually changes between mapster updates, and you would have been able to make the stuff Cody has been making with mapster a few years ago. The difference is that he isn't using the art files from Duke 3D, he's using different art. The level design itself and the lighting would be the same regardless of art though.
#26 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:23 AM
Micky C, on 29 January 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:
Take a look at level 7 for example, now as far as first maps go, this room isn't too badly detailed.
I find it funny that the "porn" room is the most detailed.
- Former VP of Media Operations
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#27 Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:26 AM
Never Forgotten, on 29 January 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:
Commander fag, I'm going to ignore your fag ass commment, and wait for you to get off your fat ass and make something worth a fuck.
~Duncan.
~Duncan.
Better chill. You can criticise people all you want but don't go littering the forums with posts like that.
#28 Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:50 AM
Never Forgotten, I hope this helps you.
http://infosuite.duk...php?page=basics
start by reading all of that
http://infosuite.duk...php?page=basics
start by reading all of that
- I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...
-
#29 Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:25 AM
Never Forgotten, on 29 January 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:
Cody, tell me how to do that with Mapster32, if you haven't noticed it's not that advanced... at least not the one I have, so stop acting like you're better and get the fuck out.
~Duncan
~Duncan
So you ask me how to do something in Mapster and in the same post you tell me to get the fuck out, how nice.
#30 Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:27 AM
Never Forgotten, on 29 January 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:
Quick Question, do you guys like big maps? curious, because my next map is pretty big so far.
~Duncan
~Duncan
Oh I love big maps
It is also a good way to learn more about mapping.
Perhaps you shouldn't make too small rooms for the beginning.
Start with a big outside area and have fun.
Here are some new pics of my upcomming map.
It's gonna be huuuge
BTW:
Do you know about DukePlus?
It has many new stuff like weapons, enemies, different gameplay stuff, mantling etc., new models and much more.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This post has been edited by Mia Max: 30 January 2012 - 04:30 AM
