[OpenMaw]

Let's be honest. Duke Forever's critical reception wasn't that hot, and the fan base itself is fairly polar about it.

So... The common and popular thing to do these days with media franchises is to reboot. Attempt to zap new life into a series. There are many different directions to go. With the James Bond series there have been "spiritual" reboots ever few movies when the gadgetry and general silliness began to overshadow espionage, characterization, and overall story telling.

Now, obviously there's talk these days here and there of a Duke Nukem feature film (again after many years) and a game called Duke Nukem Begins, which would be as the title implies, some kind of an origin story.

So the question of the thread becomes... If there is a true, full-on series reboot. What would you like to see? New enemy? Recreation of the original Duke Nukem with some modern sensibilities? A back-to-basics Duke Nukem 3D style game with the latest graphical bells and whistles?

[Hank]

Commando Nukem, on 14 January 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Let's be honest. Duke Forever's critical reception wasn't that hot, and the fan base itself is fairly polar about it.

So... The common and popular thing to do these days with media franchises is to reboot. Attempt to zap new life into a series. There are many different directions to go. With the James Bond series there have been "spiritual" reboots ever few movies when the gadgetry and general silliness began to overshadow espionage, characterization, and overall story telling.

Now, obviously there's talk these days here and there of a Duke Nukem feature film (again after many years) and a game called Duke Nukem Begins, which would be as the title implies, some kind of an origin story.

So the question of the thread becomes... If there is a true, full-on series reboot. What would you like to see? New enemy? Recreation of the original Duke Nukem with some modern sensibilities? A back-to-basics Duke Nukem 3D style game with the latest graphical bells and whistles?

I think, not back to basics, just bring the magic back, make Duke, well, original again, with a little TLC,
http://www.indiedb.c...derlust-rebirth this is sort of the Duke Nukum (I) stage. It's not Duke, but the game has magic.
To 'reboot', I say start from scratch and develop Duke that is fun to play, and forget what was, and the graphics, well, considering the sophistication of support programs, like Maya, Lightwave, no excuses.

just mouthing off

[Kyphros]

I don't want anything in particular considering the story.

But there's one thing I don't want: "modern sensibilities" in the game.
It has to have an actually challenging old-school gameplay.

[Kathy]

Since reboot means it's story related I don't think it will make much difference. Plus, honesty, I don't think Duke needs somekind of origin story. He's an action hero caricature. Making an origin story just won't work since he wasn't seriously established as a character in previous games. And originally DNF was supposed to be quite serious in story development thus plans to make Begins made sense.

[thatguy]

No reason to reboot since each game was unique in its own right until Duke Nukem Forever came out. (spinoffs don't count).

The DLC for DNF is a good example that Duke still works. Not to mention Gearbox said once they are done with DNF, they want to use the license to rightfully create a new Duke game.

[Micky C]

The reboot has already happened. It was DNF, it tried to make Duke modern, and it failed. Games like Serious Sam 3 show that the old school formula, with minimal modern influence, are still very well received by fans and the public alike. Duke needs to take his gameplay back to DN3D.

[----]

Micky C, on 15 January 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Games like Serious Sam 3 show that the old school formula, with minimal modern influence, are still very well received by fans and the public alike.

And these modern influences were (mainly) done right. The ironsights actually added to the original gameplay. They didn't influence the weapons accuracy at all. So it was the same if you used it or not. The result is that you can play without it without drawbacks, like in the old days. But I used them for enemies that were still far away. So it added to the gameplay, but didn't remove anything.

Now, the reloading of the machinegun is something else. It didn't bother me the first playthrough too much. But without reloading the game is more fun. Guess how Croteam approached that problem ... they made SS3:BFE moddable. And the only mod I downloaded is the no-reload mod.

I even liked how they added a few levels with a bit of different gameplay (Into The Spiders Nest), because to me personally it added a bit of variety which SS-games seriously (pun intended) need).



I know that I will get downvoted for the next paragraph, but anyways:
I even think that ironsights could add to Duke Nukem games. Just let for example the pistol have the same accuracy it had in DN3D when used with crosshairs (you will remember that you always had to shoot a few times until you hit that button in Death Row, due to the poor accuracy). In this case Ironsights could add to the game when the pistol gets high accuracy with an ironsight. Outside close quarter firefights they could add to the game without affecting the overall gameplay when you don't want to use them.
Of course ironsights only should be added for the few weapons where it makes sense (pistol, maybe shotgun and depending if a machinegun or the ripper is used in a reboot (maybe even both are used) .
EDIT: The ripper could be done like the minigun in UT2004. Secondary fire doesn'T use ironsights but gives a slightly slower rate of fire but higher accuracy. THose are things that ADD to the gameplay.

[thatguy]

Micky C, on 15 January 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

The reboot has already happened. It was DNF, it tried to make Duke modern, and it failed. Games like Serious Sam 3 show that the old school formula, with minimal modern influence, are still very well received by fans and the public alike. Duke needs to take his gameplay back to DN3D.

A reboot means starting over, mainly to change the style, direction or new story. DNF wasn't a reboot, it continued the story and had pretty much everything the same.

[Micky C]

s.b.Newsom, on 15 January 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

A reboot means starting over, mainly to change the style, direction or new story. DNF wasn't a reboot, it continued the story and had pretty much everything the same.

I'm confused, it appeared to me that they did change the style and direction, and the story is irrelevant. I know it isn't a reboot, but it might as well have been a reboot for how modern different it was. If you changed Duke's name, the pigcops, commanders, bosses, freezer, shrinker and chaingun (it sounds like a lot but it really isn't) you'd have a good chance of not even making a connection between it and Duke 3D.

[thatguy]

Micky C, on 15 January 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

I'm confused, it appeared to me that they did change the style and direction, and the story is irrelevant. I know it isn't a reboot, but it might as well have been a reboot for how modern different it was. If you changed Duke's name, the pigcops, commanders, bosses, freezer, shrinker and chaingun (it sounds like a lot but it really isn't) you'd have a good chance of not even making a connection between it and Duke 3D.

To give you an idea of what a reboot really is. Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Begins/Dark Knight/Rises. Reboot revisits the original story or character and creates a whole new direction. DNF didn't make a new style or direction, pretty much the opposite. It is pretty much a modern DN3D with the addition of modern gameplay mechanics and enhanced graphics. I really don't understand how you say its a different style or direction. Its exactly the same minus technology differences. The story is relevant too because it pretty much is a loose sequel to D3d's story. You say different but it really isn't different. Just worse. Everything from DN3d is in DNF. Everything that made DN3D awesome, isn't.

Based on your ideology, Half-Life 2 is a reboot.....

[----]

s.b.Newsom, on 15 January 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

I really don't understand how you say its a different style or direction. Its exactly the same minus technology differences.

Basic level design changed from exploring to linear corridors => fundamental gameplay difference.
Instead of carrying the whole arsenal you carry 2 or 4 weapons => fundamental gameplay difference.
Instead of going for medkits and healthpacks you have regenerating ego => fundamental gameplay difference.
Instead of freely opening doors you have quicktime events = gameplay difference.
Instead of just killing bosses you need explosives and a QTE => gameplay difference.

DNF became an immature parody filled with useless sex jokes => fundamental difference in mood and tone for the overall game

Duke's appearance changed from badass to douchey => fundamental difference for the main character
Duke's voice and tone changed => fundamental change to the main character

But apart from fundamental differences in look, feel and mood, big differences of the main character and a totally changed gameplay it is the same ... jeezez.

[Micky C]

Edit: @ s.b.Newsom

After reading that it seems even more like a reboot. The story is the same; the exact same aliens invade earth and take our women, and it's up to Duke to stop them (sounds familiar). The story isn't any more complicated than that, it really isn't. The game could have played out the same way without any story (dialogues, cutscenes, plot devices) at all, except for blowing up the dam maybe. The gameplay was completely different, the level design was completely different, and DNF is not a modern Duke 3D because of those two things.

The differences between halflife and halflife 2 compared to Duke 3D and DNF is huge! But I know you were just using it as a general example. Speaking of halflife 2, I recently started playing it (note, after I finished DNF), and from my perspective, DNF felt like a cheap attempt at halflife 2 with regen health and 2 weapon limit. If you removed the things I mentioned in my previous post, and you asked me whether the game was based on Duke 3D or HL2, I would go with HL2 without hesitation. The pacing, and physics based puzzles felt very similar to me.

And I agree with fuegerstef, there were so many differences, with just enough things remaining the same to make it recognisable (main character, enemies, some weapons, even though the AI was quite different and weapons hold almost zero ammo) that it feels like a reboot, which is what I think he's getting at.

Edit: can everyone stop editing?

[thatguy]

Micky C, on 15 January 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Edit: @ s.b.Newsom

After reading that it seems even more like a reboot. The story is the same; the exact same aliens invade earth and take our women, and it's up to Duke to stop them (sounds familiar). The story isn't any more complicated than that, it really isn't. The game could have played out the same way without any story (dialogues, cutscenes, plot devices) at all, except for blowing up the dam maybe. The gameplay was completely different, the level design was completely different, and DNF is not a modern Duke 3D because of those two things.

The differences between halflife and halflife 2 compared to Duke 3D and DNF is huge! But I know you were just using it as a general example. Speaking of halflife 2, I recently started playing it (note, after I finished DNF), and from my perspective, DNF felt like a cheap attempt at halflife 2 with regen health and 2 weapon limit. If you removed the things I mentioned in my previous post, and you asked me whether the game was based on Duke 3D or HL2, I would go with HL2 without hesitation. The pacing, and physics based puzzles felt very similar to me.

And I agree with fuegerstef, there were so many differences, with just enough things remaining the same to make it recognisable (main character, enemies, some weapons, even though the AI was quite different and weapons hold almost zero ammo) that it feels like a reboot, which is what I think he's getting at.

Edit: can everyone stop editing?

First of all, the story isn't the same. The world clearly provides the information that Duke3d occured prior to the game. DNF is a parody of DN while still be a direct sequel to DN3d. You cannot make a sequel if its a reboot.

Also....I don't know if you realize this, but a Reboot is only a reboot if the creators claim it to be. Another great example is Deus Ex Human Revolution. That's not a reboot despite a lot of the changes. A reboot is a clear intention to remake everything. Things can be different, but that goes without saying for any sequel or continuation of a game series. DNF still has the basics. Lots of weapons, Lots of Baddies, Interaction, Sex, and Violence.

Also if you think DNF is like a cheap knock off of Half-Life 2, then clearly you need to play more FPS games because HL2 is just a crowning achievement of First Person Shooters but not a target of inspiration for a lot of games....except for Story and Multiplayer.

Again, DNF is the product of Modern gaming not a reboot. DNF is what you would expect from a game that is a sequel to another game made around 10 years prior to its release. Reboot? No. Its Duke Nukem 4ever for a reason. Else it would just be called 'Duke Nukem' like every reboot of anything.


I agree with feugerstef, but that doesn't mean it is a reboot of the game. DNF is just a MODERNIZATION of the D3D gameplay, minus the tactfulness in development.

[Micky C]

I was never saying it was a literal reboot, merely that if there were to be a reboot, they would have to change things. However we can all agree that many things have been changed, sometimes quite drastically, which means they'd have to change everything a second time. So instead of taking it even further away from its Duke 3D roots, although I doubt that's even possible, they should change it to make it like the original.

And how did you know I don't play many FPS games? Because you're right

[thatguy]

Micky C, on 15 January 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

I was never saying it was a literal reboot, merely that if there were to be a reboot, they would have to change things. However we can all agree that many things have been changed, sometimes quite drastically, which means they'd have to change everything a second time. So instead of taking it even further away from its Duke 3D roots, although I doubt that's even possible, they should change it to make it like the original.

And how did you know I don't play many FPS games? Because you're right

LOL Gotcha. Actually I can name quite a few FPS games that play like DNF. Half-Life 2 is just a unique well rounded First Person Action/Adventure game.

DNF is like Modern Warfare meets Halo. Again, all the changes are nothing but mere modern FPS mechanics. lol

[Mad Max RW]

One question, should it be called Duke's Mighty Reboot?

[thatguy]

Mad Max RW, on 15 January 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

One question, should it be called Duke's Mighty Reboot?

'Time for Duke to Reboot your asses!;

[xMobilemux]

I have never liked reboots, but if they have to do it to Duke the only thing I want untouched is Duke himself, GBX can change the weapons, story, enemies, gameplay and what not, but as long as Duke is still in his red tank top, blue jeans, sunglasses, blonde hair cut, muscled up and Jon St John behind the mic, I'll be happy

[Mikko]

fuegerstef, on 15 January 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

I even think that ironsights could add to Duke Nukem games. Just let for example the pistol have the same accuracy it had in DN3D when used with crosshairs (you will remember that you always had to shoot a few times until you hit that button in Death Row, due to the poor accuracy). In this case Ironsights could add to the game when the pistol gets high accuracy with an ironsight. Outside close quarter firefights they could add to the game without affecting the overall gameplay when you don't want to use them.
Of course ironsights only should be added for the few weapons where it makes sense (pistol, maybe shotgun and depending if a machinegun or the ripper is used in a reboot (maybe even both are used) .
EDIT: The ripper could be done like the minigun in UT2004. Secondary fire doesn'T use ironsights but gives a slightly slower rate of fire but higher accuracy. THose are things that ADD to the gameplay.

I agree. The zoom mode in DNF was horrible.

[necroslut]

There is no real need to reboot the Duke Nukem series as there is no real continuity to bother with in the first place. The only recurring feature is Duke himself, and he has also changed over the years, and guns. Rebooting is usually done to rid yourself of the limits set on you by existing story etc, but with a Duke Nukem game you could just do anything you want story- or featurewise. Have him fight whatever, wherever, whenever, using whatever you can come up with, there is absolutely no need for a reboot. Even time travel is already part of the series, so there is literally NOTHING you couldn't do.

And an origins story for Duke would just be retarded, I hope they drop this idea if they haven't already. The character just wouldn't hold up for that, and doesn't require it either. And even the ones that seem interesting usually end up sucking.

As for iron sights, I think they make sense (and add to the gameplay) in games where you don't have a crosshair (eg Killing Floor). I would love the idea to not have a crosshair ("wussy arming device) in the next Duke game, but I don't think there's a lot of people who would agree with me on that.

[ReaperMan]

Mikko_Sandt, on 15 January 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

I agree. The zoom mode in DNF was horrible.

Well i never used zoom mode in DNF, but the fact that it has a zoom mode makes me angry.

[Jinroh]

I don't think it would be too bad if they remade the stories from Duke 1 and Duke 2 into 3D FPS. That would be pretty rad. ^^ Oprah could even lend her talent to talk with Duke about his book, 'Why I'm so Great' now that she's not doing here real life show anymore. xD

[necroslut]

Jinroh, on 16 January 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

I don't think it would be too bad if they remade the stories from Duke 1 and Duke 2 into 3D FPS. That would be pretty rad. ^^ Oprah could even lend her talent to talk with Duke about his book, 'Why I'm so Great' now that she's not doing here real life show anymore. xD

"not too bad" doesn't sound very promising to me.

[Oook]

necroslut, on 15 January 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

There is no real need to reboot the Duke Nukem series as there is no real continuity to bother with in the first place. The only recurring feature is Duke himself, and he has also changed over the years, and guns. Rebooting is usually done to rid yourself of the limits set on you by existing story etc, but with a Duke Nukem game you could just do anything you want story- or featurewise. Have him fight whatever, wherever, whenever, using whatever you can come up with, there is absolutely no need for a reboot. Even time travel is already part of the series, so there is literally NOTHING you couldn't do.

And an origins story for Duke would just be retarded, I hope they drop this idea if they haven't already. The character just wouldn't hold up for that, and doesn't require it either. And even the ones that seem interesting usually end up sucking.

As for iron sights, I think they make sense (and add to the gameplay) in games where you don't have a crosshair (eg Killing Floor). I would love the idea to not have a crosshair ("wussy arming device) in the next Duke game, but I don't think there's a lot of people who would agree with me on that.

I agree. Make just a few references to Forever events (death of the president, destruction of Las Vegas, trip to the moon...) and keep going. Duke Nukem games doesn't need to have a coherent chronological order, I think. Also, the idea of Duke being the president is great IMO.
A game about the "origins" of Duke is a horrible idea. He kicks ass, he did and he will, I don't need to know anything more about him.

[JimmehCake]

I would be happy with secrets. I missed the good old secrets like walking trough walls and opening random objects so much in DNF..
Also a fast paced multiplayer with some GOOD servers because playing with 500+ ping any time a server gets more than 4 people in it isn't fun. :[

Oh and if they're going to add Holywood Holocaust again make it an identical copy instead of that awful paint ball area!

[rasmus thorup]

Secret doors are awesome. But i don't like walls you can walk through.

[necroslut]

JimmehCake, on 16 January 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

I would be happy with secrets. I missed the good old secrets like walking trough walls and opening random objects so much in DNF..

I think everyone did, I think every review (or forum post) I've read brought that up. I really hope they listen.

[sheridanm962]

Commando Nukem, on 14 January 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

If there is a true, full-on series reboot. What would you like to see? New enemy? Recreation of the original Duke Nukem with some modern sensibilities? A back-to-basics Duke Nukem 3D style game with the latest graphical bells and whistles?

A Duke Nukem style game with the latest graphical bells and whistles plus some Balls of Steel

[Mad Max RW]

I''d rather they used Duke Nukem 3D as a foundation then make bigger and more detailed maps, more interesting goals instead of key hunts, bigger bosses, better AI, keep the same multiplayer deathmatch and coop and add some new modes that aren't so insulting. Don't copy whatever flavor of the month is out by adding health regen, limited sprinting, boring vehicle sections, and a drawn out stupid storyline. That last part is really important to me because I am so sick of every singleplayer game nowadays trying to act like Half Life 2 with one long marathon run instead of individual levels. Bring back episodes with their own maps. No more backtracking through the same shit. No more breaking up the monotony through forced minigames, turret sections, and driving. Just drop me in a cool place with guns and monsters and let me figure out what to do.

Also a fully supported SDK.

[thatguy]

Hank, on 16 January 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Me too. Still, I've got to give this a go!
It reminds me on Wolfenstein, with better graphics ... back to work for me, but thanks for the find dude.

The best Easter Eggs secrets in spirit of DN3D's creative are found in Rage. Boy has that game sparked so much nostalgia and love. I really loved that game despite being short.