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Sector,Sprites and linedef limits question

User is offline   SgtDopey 

#1

Are these limits still in eduke and what happens if you go past the limit
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#2

Why don't you try it xD, i don't really remember the sprite and sector limit. But the wall limit is 16000. You simply can't make any more walls.
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #3

It's a hard limit; the editor prevents you from exceeding it.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#4

Just thought I'd say that what you call 'linedefs' is what we call 'walls'. And the wall limit will always be the one you run into first, but only if the map you're working on is excessively large.
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#5

Edit: woops, posted in the wrong tab and accidentally necro'd this topic here.

Since I bumped this anyway, is there a wiki page that lists the vanilla Duke limits? I saw them a while ago but am not finding it at the moment. Just out of curiosity, since mapster lists the larger limits.

Also, does Megaton edition have different limits than eDuke or vanilla Duke 3D?

This post has been edited by PsychoGoatee: 29 October 2015 - 08:58 AM

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User is offline   blizzart 

#6

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 29 October 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

Edit: woops, posted in the wrong tab and accidentally necro'd this topic here.

Since I bumped this anyway, is there a wiki page that lists the vanilla Duke limits? I saw them a while ago but am not finding it at the moment. Just out of curiosity, since mapster lists the larger limits.

Also, does Megaton edition have different limits than eDuke or vanilla Duke 3D?


Vanilla Duke´s limits should be:

1024 sectors
4096 sprites
8192 walls

You can see these limits in mapster as long as you won´t break that limit. :)

I´m not sure if Megaton has a different limit. IIRC the JonoF port has the same limits like Mapster has, so Megaton should have them, too.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#7

View PostPsychoGoatee, on 29 October 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

Just out of curiosity, since mapster lists the larger limits.


Mapster32 shows the default vanilla Duke Nukem 3D limits until you break them, that is.
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#8

Ah interesting, thanks. I guess those vanilla limits were pretty impressive, I don't think I'll even pass those. From this topic I gather 1600 is the extended wall limit, before I had assumed 8000 was the new limit and 4000 or something was the old one. Hollywood Holocaust uses less than 2000 walls for example.

This post has been edited by PsychoGoatee: 29 October 2015 - 11:43 AM

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User is offline   MetHy 

#9

You should play some of the maps that reach the 'new' wall limit then.

This post has been edited by MetHy: 29 October 2015 - 11:45 AM

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#10

View PostMetHy, on 29 October 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

You should play some of the maps that reach the 'new' wall limit then.


I'm sure I've played maps that exceed the old limit at least, I just haven't really noticed that side of the behind the scenes until lately. Just loaded up a map that seems complex, Brooklyn Bridge has 11,000 walls anyway, pretty solid number
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User is offline   pmw 

#11

Btw,

is there some reason why max walls is 16384? Since the original value was 8192. It has been increased, would it be big deal to increase even more, to 32768? Was it big thing to increase from 8192 to 18384?
About the performance, I don't know how game would work with more than 16384 walls, but, with ~16380 walls there are no performance issues at all.

Of course it is pretty rare to have such a big maps..but I was just wondering this. I would like to make a map with walls of 2*current limit:)
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User is offline   LeoD 

  • Duke4.net topic/3513

#12

View Postpmw, on 22 November 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

is there some reason why max walls is 16384? Since the original value was 8192. It has been increased, would it be big deal to increase even more, to 32768? Was it big thing to increase from 8192 to 18384?
This gets asked every now and then. You need 14 bit for 16384 walls. The 15th and 16th bits of that 2 byte value are in use already for some internal properties AFAIK. So increasing max walls would mean to use a bigger variable type and moving those two bits elsewhere. That would be a lot of programming work, most likely introducing serious regressions which would take quite a while to be itched out. And IIRC it could(will?) break existing CON code.
Splitting a huge mapping project into several smaller maps connected by a hub map would be a possible alternative.

This post has been edited by LeoD: 22 November 2015 - 10:54 AM

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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#13

I also recall TX saying that it would make eduke32 run slower since code has to loop through a lot more potential walls. IMO there's very few large-wall-count map scenarios that can't be done by splitting it up into multiple maps using map caching, especially if you plan it in advance.
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User is offline   quakis 

#14

How does one make use of the hub map system without CON coding knowledge? Excluding any major external mods for that singular feature.

I remember dabbling with something DT put together, but that was several years back. Does a hassle free resource like this still exist or has the hub feature changed since then?

Edit: Questions restructured.

This post has been edited by quakis: 23 November 2015 - 06:38 AM

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User is offline   LeoD 

  • Duke4.net topic/3513

#15

View Postquakis, on 23 November 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

How does one make use of the hub map system without CON coding knowledge? Excluding any major external mods for that singular feature.
I remember dabbling with something DT put together, but that was several years back. Does a hassle free resource like this still exist or has the hub feature changed since then?
You can check out the NBCBP (download). It comes with some USER.CON, but I'm not sure if that's needed for the hub functionality.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#16

View PostLeoD, on 23 November 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

You can check out the NBCBP (download). It comes with some USER.CON, but I'm not sure if that's needed for the hub functionality.


I just took a look at that. Yes, you would definitely need the USER.CON for hub functionality. Map caching in EDuke32 requires CON code to work. And at the risk of souding arrogant, I'm going to point out that the system they used for that is considerably more primitive and less versatile than the code of mine that quakis was referring to, or the later version that I have for WGR2.

Basically, what they have in NBCBP is just a bunch of separate actors with code like this:

define LEXIE5 2477
useractor notenemy LEXIE5
cstat 32768
  ifpdistl 800
    {
      startlevel VOLUME 5
      soundonce JIBBED_ACTOR5
    }
enda


Each actor is hardcoded to load a specific map from the episode when the player gets to a certain distance from it. So the player will always end up at the scroll lock start position in the target map, meaning you can't have unlimited entry points to the same map as you can in my version, or have an unlimited number of levels.

Anyone interested can also try my version from 2009, which comes with instructions and is attached. I have more recent code but it's intermixed with code from a TC so I can't easily provide the updated version.

Attached File(s)


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User is offline   quakis 

#17

Thanks for reuploading this! Was looking for it without success. I remember the system working really well back when I tested it out.

To be honest I completely forgot about the whole hub system in Eduke32 until it was brought up again in this thread. That would have been useful during the development of my last map, since I abuse walls/sprites too much and wouldn't have had to ditch some ideas I had for the back alley and cellar sections. Ah well, no worries now. :)
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