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Attract Mode MIA

User is offline   1CC 

#1

Hello fellow forum members,

I just downloaded eDuke32, threw in the duke3d.grp file, made a few changes to the settings (320x200, software rendering) and laid back in my seat in anticipation of the adrenaline pumping attract mode.

But there I sat waiting while nothing happened. It goes straight to the options menu after the title screen. I'm probably missing something very basic here, any suggestions?

Thx and best regards.
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #2

The built in demos don't play correctly with any released version of the Duke3d source... sorry! You can always record your own though.
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User is offline   1CC 

#3

So if I record a demo, it will be played back automatically every time I start up the game, and the theme song will play in the background?

Did anyone try to recreate the original demos for this exact purpose yet?

This post has been edited by 1CC: 26 December 2011 - 05:25 PM

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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #4

Yeah, if you record a demo it'll be played back at startup and the main title theme should play in the background. I don't think anyone has tried to recreate the original demos because a lot of people are using the HRP with Polymer and don't want the added load time involved with loading up an extra level just for the menu background.
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User is offline   1CC 

#5

Quote

Yeah, if you record a demo it'll be played back at startup and the main title theme should play in the background.

That is great news, I'm happy now.

Do you by any chance know where I could download a few nice demos?


Quote

I don't think anyone has tried to recreate the original demos because a lot of people are using the HRP with Polymer and don't want the added load time involved with loading up an extra level just for the menu background.

Fair enough, but I like my sprite art.


this:
http://img40.imagesh...1/duke2high.jpg

just doesn't look nearly as good as this:
http://img195.images...62/duke2low.jpg
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #6

I tend to agree with you regarding the HRP content vs the sprites, but a lot of users feel otherwise. I look at Polymer as an awesome way to create new worlds, not as primarily a way to overlay fancy modernized textures over 15+ year old map data.

The HRP is a great way to introduce people who have somehow never seen Duke3d before to the game but it's not something I would ever play with constantly as it's a bit too much of a departure from the game I grew up with. There are some mighty fine Polymer-specific textures these days that can be used to create some really awesome NEW maps though.
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User is offline   The Commander 

  • I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...

#7

View Post1CC, on 26 December 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:


F12 is the screenshot key, no need to use a digital camera. :)
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User is offline   1CC 

#8

You want F12? Here it is. Looks quite stunning, does it? No, it doesn't. It looks like a post stamp.

Posted Image

So let's increase the size, but then things get "jaggied", and of course no "scanlines".

Posted Image

Now let's compare this to my shot. Just look at the color gradients on the gun's surface or on the health box at the lower left, the neon lights are more vibrant, everything looks more smooth and natural.

Posted Image

Seems like I should reduce the green a bit and work on the aspect ratio correction, but anyway, this is still work in progress. My ideal setup would involve running Duke on an SD CRT TV, which would add screen curvature and reduce the jaggies even further. It is, however, the best screenshot I could come up with, and the best screenshot of Duke Nukem 3D I've seen yet.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#9

Hold your horses, sir. You need to be editing your video options. Duke3D looks GREAT at high resolutions with original textures. Here's a shot from my computer running at it's highest possible resolution of 1152x864.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 30 December 2011 - 10:15 AM

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User is offline   1CC 

#10

Admittedly, the further apart the objects are, the less pixelated they appear, but look at the HUD, the gun, the enemy, or the neon lights to see the problems I mentioned. Also everything's so clean and bright, I vastly prefer the grittier look in my shot.

This post has been edited by 1CC: 31 December 2011 - 03:21 PM

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#11

View Post1CC, on 26 December 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

That is great news, I'm happy now.

Do you by any chance know where I could download a few nice demos?


what levels do you want demos for? And should they be for full levels or should i die on purpose like in the original demos. I want to make some xD

This post has been edited by rasmus thorup: 31 December 2011 - 04:38 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#12

"Problems"... The hell are you talking about? It is immaculate.
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User is offline   1CC 

#13

rasmus thorup said:

what levels do you want demos for?

As I said, a recreation of the original demos would be amazing.

rasmus thorup said:

I want to make some xD

Pls feel free to do so, I'd greatly appreciate your help.

Captain Awesome said:

"Problems"... The hell are you talking about? It is immaculate

I think I explained my thoughts already. It's great for you if you don't see any problems, but I think it's far from being immaculate, and in fact quite flawed.

This post has been edited by 1CC: 01 January 2012 - 05:24 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#14

What the hell are you talking about? It is presented EXACTLY as it was meant to be. In no way is it flawed. I think you might seriously be smoking crack.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#15

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 01 January 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

What the hell are you talking about? It is presented EXACTLY as it was meant to be. In no way is it flawed. I think you might seriously be smoking crack.


Can't you see it? Little things like the red neon sign being a bit more fluroescent, and the greys have a very slight bluish tinge to it. The colours are slightly different in polymost compared to classic.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#16

Yeah... but it's not LITERALLY any different... he's just taking a picture of his screen. I have no idea what he's talking about here.

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 03 January 2012 - 09:31 PM

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User is offline   1CC 

#17

Captain Awesome said:

It is presented EXACTLY as it was meant to be.

You don't know that. And it doesn't even matter how "it was meant to be". All that matters is what looks better to me.

Captain Awesome said:

it's not LITERALLY any different

A game running in 1152x864 is literally the same as running it in 320x200? Who's smoking crack again?


Btw a few DOOM ports like Chocolate Doom or PrBoom+ feature what they call "scanline" or "interlaced" settings, which try to replicate the looks of my photo. None of those quite get it right though, for reasons I won't go into here.

This post has been edited by 1CC: 05 January 2012 - 08:25 AM

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User is online   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#18

I have never understood why anyone likes scanlines. I guess it is nostalgia for crappy old televisions.
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User is offline   LeoD 

  • Duke4.net topic/3513

#19

View PostDeeperThought, on 05 January 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

I have never understood why anyone likes scanlines. I guess it is nostalgia for crappy old televisions.

I guess it's related to the reasons why we still enjoy DN3D.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#20

View Post1CC, on 05 January 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

You don't know that. And it doesn't even matter how "it was meant to be". All that matters is what looks better to me.

Actually, I do because I've looked at the original art tiles for hundreds of hours. EDuke32 presents them exactly as the developers put them. Once again, your thread just makes no sense. From what I can tell, you were trying to post a screenshot, so instead of pressing F12 you took a picture of your screen for aesthetic reasons.

View Post1CC, on 05 January 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

A game running in 1152x864 is literally the same as running it in 320x200? Who's smoking crack again?

And actually, yes, the assets are the same, and in fact look better because it's not being garbled down into a smaller resolution than it need to be.
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User is offline   1CC 

#21

View PostDeeperThought, on 05 January 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

I have never understood why anyone likes scanlines. I guess it is nostalgia for crappy old televisions.

No way lol, these big old tubes are just too bulky. My problem is just that Duke Nukem 3D looks better on those crappy old televisions than it does on a new LCD or Plasma screen.

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 05 January 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Actually, I do because I've looked at the original art tiles for hundreds of hours. EDuke32 presents them exactly as the developers put them.

And with original art tiles you mean the low resolution textures?

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 05 January 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

From what I can tell, you were trying to post a screenshot, so instead of pressing F12 you took a picture of your screen for aesthetic reasons.

Of course I did it for aesthetic reasons, why would I do it otherwise?

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 05 January 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

And actually, yes, the assets are the same, and in fact look better because it's not being garbled down into a smaller resolution than it need to be.

They don't look better. A lot of the assets in your screen are "garbled up", because of the higher resolution. In fact, the HUD looks like crap in your screenshot, whereas it is displayed better at its native resolution in mine.
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User is offline   Player Lin 

#22

View PostLeoD, on 05 January 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

I guess it's related to the reasons why we still enjoy DN3D.


I do enjoy classic DN3D but not with scanlines, it sucks for me. :unsure:
Not everyone has same point of view.
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#23

Duke 3D never had scanlines, believe me, I spend a lot of time with the original MS-DOS executable running on CRT screens - I still use CRT because it has faster response than LCD and is more reliable than plasma, I'm waiting for oled to become affordable - and there are never scanlines.

What you need to keep in mind is that the original developers could easily have run the game at 1600*1200 if they had wanted to - in fact, they did at one point, but no computer at the time would have run the game very well at all at these resolutions, that and even my CRT from 2007 doesn't go about 1280*1024.
Posted Image

What the developers had in mind was a cutting edge game but it was limited by technology of the time, I am forever telling this community that they are a bunch of backwards-ass morons for wanting everything to be compatible with 8-Bit mode, so believe me, I'm not picking on you specifically.
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User is offline   1CC 

#24

High Treason said:

Duke 3D never had scanlines, believe me, I spend a lot of time with the original MS-DOS executable running on CRT screens.

Scanlines are the visible lines, every game running in a low enough resolution should have discernible scanlines on a reasonably sized CRT screen. You should be able to make out the black lines in between the scanlines on your CRT monitor when you run eDuke32 at 320x200. This is actually what chocolate Doom's "scanline" setting tries to emulate. It looks similar to this:

http://img441.images...coscanline1.png

What you can also see, is that every line is drawn twice. It shows 400 "scanlines" instead of 200.

Graphic cards nowadays are simply unable to run at a resolution of 320x200 pixels, because these resolutions are deactivated at the driver level. And with good reason I guess, because every CRT monitor I own starts at 31kHz horizontal frequency, and if you run any game at such a low resolution, you'll get an out of range signal, unless you run at a very high refresh rate (120Hz or more).

I used a program called soft15kHz to make chocolate Doom look like this on my CRT:
http://img828.images...0/img0002jq.jpg (2MB)


Comparison:
Posted ImagePosted Image

Look at Doomguy's eyes. One juicy hardware scanline.


High Treason said:

What the developers had in mind

1CC said:

And it doesn't even matter how "it was meant to be". All that matters is what looks better to me.


This post has been edited by 1CC: 07 January 2012 - 05:45 AM

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#25

Everything still supports 320*200 at hardware level though, otherwise you wouldn't get a POST screen, though they do indeed have it disabled at driver level. I'm still not sure where this scanline idea comes from - though I do know what scanlines are and how they work - I don't see any in the original executable when capturing via RGB input, viewing on my 1992 Compaq SVGA monitor or even sticking my face right up to the screen;

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

If you want scanlines, by all means play with scanlines, I just can't understand where the idea that they were in the original executable came from... The screen from the RGB input is at 720*576 purely because my card scales the signal up to this size, the game, however, was running in 320*200 (Normal Mode) the whole time.

This post has been edited by High Treason: 07 January 2012 - 05:22 PM

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User is offline   1CC 

#26

View PostHigh Treason, on 07 January 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Everything still supports 320*200 at hardware level though, otherwise you wouldn't get a POST screen

If the POST screen would indeed run at 320x200, you'd get an out of range signal on most computer monitors.


View PostHigh Treason, on 07 January 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

If you want scanlines, by all means play with scanlines, I just can't understand where the idea that they were in the original executable came from...

I can't remember saying anything like that. I did however say that I very much like the looks of Duke Nukem 3D running at a resolution of 320x200, which produces discernible scanlines on my monitor.



Anyway, rasmus thorup was nice enough to record two demo files. Thank you, rasmus! Sadly, I haven't been able to get them to work. I placed them inside my eDuke32 folder (got the current stable version) and after the title screen, it still goes straight to the menu. Does anyone know what might be the problem here?

Here are the files.
http://www.mediafire...jcx8ag6i8zsdqhw
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User is offline   Loke 

#27

Doesn't work for me either. Did he say what version he used to record them?
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