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A moment of respect for the true patriots.  "H.R. 1540 - NDAA"

User is offline   Person of Color 

  • Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland

#1

http://www.opencongr...ence-committee-

Right now, there are only 17 people in the House of Representatives who I have respect for.

Rep. Justin Amash [R, MI-3]
Rep. Earl Blumenauer [D, OR-3]
Rep. Yvette Clarke [D, NY-11]
Rep. John Conyers [D, MI-14]
Rep. Peter DeFazio [D, OR-4]
Rep. Keith Ellison [D, MN-5]
Rep. Sam Farr [D, CA-17]
Rep. Raul Grijalva [D, AZ-7]
Rep. Michael Honda [D, CA-15]
Rep. Dennis Kucinich [D, OH-10]
Rep. Barbara Lee [D, CA-9]
Rep. John Lewis [D, GA-5]
Rep. James McDermott [D, WA-7]
Rep. John Olver [D, MA-1]
Rep. Ronald Paul [R, TX-14]
Rep. Fortney Stark [D, CA-13]

Steve Isreal, you will NOT be getting my vote again. Up until now, I've liked you quite a bit.

It's like these people don't even care anymore. Their approval rating is so low it's beyond all comprehension and they get bolder and bolder all the time.

When are the people going to stand up to this shit? The defense lobby has far more power than I originally thought.

This post has been edited by Descent: 08 December 2011 - 05:52 PM

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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!

#2

It is sad to think that this suppression of Constitutional rights is almost bipartisan in nature. It's not just the fact that we're pumping loads of unnecessary dollars into defense and military spending that's the issue. It's that, for some reason, the politicians of this country still believe that we are at war. Last I heard, you had to declare war against a specific country, yet they have created this absurd notion that you can go to war against an idea or a concept, and that therefore the suspension of constitutional rights is justified in the name of "national security". How convenient, too - there are no guidelines for determining whether this war is won, so the invocation of emergency powers by the President and by Congress, for all intents and purposes, is permanent. While one can make the argument that the Founding Fathers never foresaw "terrorism", or for that matter the United States' involvement in international affairs, it cannot be denied that they took specific measures to prevent the U.S. government from infringing upon those basic rights conferred to the people and the states...

As long as the United States continues to wage war against its own citizens, we will effectively be subjecting ourselves to a fascist tyranny, and I dare anyone to contest this. Name one thing that this government has done over the past six years that has been in the interests of the American people.

Edit: Well, there is one thing that the Founding Fathers did in fact foresee. Allow me to quote Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

This post has been edited by The Mighty Bison: 08 December 2011 - 08:20 PM

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User is offline   Stabs 

#3

We all know the problem with america

it start with J and lives in I and is completely void of any criticism :)
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#4

Fuck the American government.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#5

View PostThe Mighty Bison, on 08 December 2011 - 08:15 PM, said:

As long as the United States continues to wage war against its own citizens, we will effectively be subjecting ourselves to a fascist tyranny, and I dare anyone to contest this.

Read what fascism is before throwing a word like that in discussion.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#6

fas┬Ěcism
noun /ˈfaSHˌizəm/ 

1- An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization

2- (in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice
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User is offline   Kathy 

#7

It's still too broad to be used like that. Mussolini outlined what fascism is. My main point was that he(Bison) used 'fascism' just to point out authoritarian regime(or even totalitarian) which isn't exclusive to fascism. Yes, this legislation could be used to have an authoriterian regime, but saying "fascist" is kind of too much. Especially when people are also like to say that USA is going down the socialistic path. It doesn't make any sense.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#8

Ron Paul is one of the few who isn't getting rich from insider trading, either. He's the guy I respect the most because he's consistent and means what he says.

Back on topic. Next summer is when this will be put to the test. Then we'll see how much America has changed.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 09 December 2011 - 05:31 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#9

View PostHelel, on 08 December 2011 - 11:30 PM, said:

Especially when people are also like to say that USA is going down the socialistic path.

That's nothing but Republican scare-tactic rhetoric, it's just as baseless as the "Obama is the Anti-Christ." bullshit. You have to realise that since the 1980's the word fascist has taken over a broader definition than what Mussolini originally intended. Now it just means an authoritarian regime that uses brute force thugs to get done what it wants. America is definitely going that route.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#10

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 09 December 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

Now it just means an authoritarian regime that uses brute force thugs to get done what it wants. America is definitely going that route.


The reality is far worse than that. Because so many Americans have guns (and it's one of the few industries seeing record sales right now) the government is too scared to use thugs like the rest of the world. A revolution would start and they would lose. Maybe in certain liberal cities like New York that would work, but the rest of America will not lay down. The last 2 decades the "elites" have been setting up a series of national emergencies such as bogus wars and an economic collapse they knew was coming. Things are able to get back on track if they stopped abusing taxpayer money and giving it to businesses guaranteed for failure. Meanwhile they get richer knowing what will happen by playing the stock market and expand their voter base by making it seem like the "other guy" is the reason for hard times.

They believe Americans are too stupid to see what's going on. And they have mostly been right. People are just beginning to wake up and you are seeing this happen in cities in every state of the country. Unfortunately, you also have anarchists and communists trying to guide them (specifically college grads thrown into the real world) toward something that will lead to true fascism.

This whole thing about indefinite imprisonment and whatever else is a distraction to keep you ignorant about what's going on. Every few weeks there's a new one and you have to learn to file it away. Keep it in mind, but focus on what's important.

What you should think about now is preparing for next summer at the height of the election. They're going to create another national emergency, so be ready to get out of the city. I'm lucky to have close ties with the state and local police, and what they've been telling me is they are training like never before in case of riots the likes of which we have never seen. Every major police department in the nation is doing the same.
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User is offline   Person of Color 

  • Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland

#11

I've been thinking that for a while, just not that explicitly.

I'm not worried about my safety when the economic collapse happens. I live in a very wealthy town on Long Island. I'm 30-45 minutes from the city, an hour by train. My county has the second lowest crime rate in the entire nation. Our police force is exceptionally small given our population size, and the officers are the most laid back I've ever known. They won't even write pot possession tickets half the time and they rarely, if ever, see action during their careers. Violence will be limited and fascism will be avoided.

We would be among the first areas to get federal aid, due to our importance. I'd pretty much have a front row ticket to see our nation go to hell.

I have really, really bad bipolar. Like 9/10 bad. I've never been suicidal, and I never will be, but I would like to feel somewhat decent during the next "big one."

What worries me is getting psychiatric medication - My body only accepts name brand lithium. The generics don't build a level. I'm going to try stockpiling lithium oromate if it makes a difference - it's available over the counter but it's different than the prescription lithium carbonate. I have tons of Valium stockpiled. I stopped taking it but didn't tell my shrink. Worse comes to worse I could use that as needed. I'd also like to grab some marijuana seeds, since it helps as well, and I can regenerate it. I barely need any pot to help keep me stable - roughly two hits per day. When used medicinally, I can make a 20 sack last a little over two weeks. I could grow 3-4 months worth out of a single plant.

This post has been edited by Descent: 09 December 2011 - 04:15 PM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#12

View PostDescent, on 09 December 2011 - 04:11 PM, said:

I live in a very wealthy town on Long Island.


That makes you a prime target if there is a total collapse. You do not want to live in a rich area or look like a rich person. There's a reason hedge fund billionaires are buying up farmland in the middle of nowhere.

What I've been told is they expect it to last 8 weeks before the basics come back online. Meaning law and order, electricity, food and medicine will be stuck in limbo before the National Guard comes in and takes over. I'm talking about the major metropolitan areas. Those are high priority. Outside of the cities you're expected to take care of yourself a bit longer. Think New Orleans after Katrina or the hurricane that hit my state this summer. We still had hundreds of thousands of people without power well into the fall. They viewed that as a trial run at getting electricity going again. It was mostly a failure. Officially it was because of massive damage to the grid, but the real reason was a lack of manpower. Imagine what would happen if people are afraid to go to work because of rioting in hundreds of cities at once.

Another thing, why do you think they are moving so quickly at getting all of our military home from Iraq? Not just the US government, but every nation in the world is preparing for the worst. This information is being leaked constantly, most recently from the British parliament. They got a taste of it this summer and expect the EU to collapse very soon bringing with it anarchy throughout Europe. Even China's elites are terrified. Next summer is the estimated timeline for everything to happen at once. It will be a cascade effect.

I'll be extremely surprised if we make it to 2013 without the whole world going insane. If everyone wakes up we can at least delay it a few years and be able to come out in not so bad a shape. The best case scenario is we do a gradual winding down of the way of life we're used to and adapt to not having as much.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 09 December 2011 - 07:00 PM

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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#13

View PostDescent, on 09 December 2011 - 04:11 PM, said:


I'm not worried about my safety when the economic collapse happens. I live in a very wealthy town on Long Island. I'm 30-45 minutes from the city, an hour by train. My county has the second lowest crime rate in the entire nation. Our police force is exceptionally small given our population size, and the officers are the most laid back I've ever known.


Not worried? Sounds like an ideal place to rape and pillage, full of rich, defenseless people. But I guess that's not a serious concern unless we have complete anarchy. In a mere depression, you are probably right.
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User is offline   Person of Color 

  • Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland

#14

View PostMad Max RW, on 09 December 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

That makes you a prime target if there is a total collapse. You do not want to live in a rich area or look like a rich person. There's a reason hedge fund billionaires are buying up farmland in the middle of nowhere.

What I've been told is they expect it to last 8 weeks before the basics come back online. Meaning law and order, electricity, food and medicine will be stuck in limbo before the National Guard comes in and takes over. I'm talking about the major metropolitan areas. Those are high priority. Outside of the cities you're expected to take care of yourself a bit longer. Think New Orleans after Katrina or the hurricane that hit my state this summer. We still had hundreds of thousands of people without power well into the fall. They viewed that as a trial run at getting electricity going again. It was mostly a failure. Officially it was because of massive damage to the grid, but the real reason was a lack of manpower. Imagine what would happen if people are afraid to go to work because of rioting in hundreds of cities at once.

Another thing, why do you think they are moving so quickly at getting all of our military home from Iraq? Not just the US government, but every nation in the world is preparing for the worst. This information is being leaked constantly, most recently from the British parliament. They got a taste of it this summer and expect the EU to collapse very soon bringing with it anarchy throughout Europe. Even China's elites are terrified. Next summer is the estimated timeline for everything to happen at once. It will be a cascade effect.

I'll be extremely surprised if we make it to 2013 without the whole world going insane. If everyone wakes up we can at least delay it a few years and be able to come out in not so bad a shape. The best case scenario is we do a gradual winding down of the way of life we're used to and adapt to not having as much.



View PostDeeperThought, on 09 December 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Not worried? Sounds like an ideal place to rape and pillage, full of rich, defenseless people. But I guess that's not a serious concern unless we have complete anarchy. In a mere depression, you are probably right.


There are richer towns to pillage nearby. We're in one of the least wealthy parts of this town, they'd be targeting the "richers" on the other side. To be honest, save for a few pockets that aren't nearby (Central Islip, Hempstead, Mastic, Etc.) Long Island has a crime rate so low, a standard of living so high, and wealth so prevalent I'm not worried. If you lived here, you'd understand. The ratio is skewed in my favor.

Mad Max, as for the preparation? Yeah, I'm in agreement. I've been reading up on the urban training they've been having the military do as well.

This post has been edited by Descent: 09 December 2011 - 09:40 PM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#15

Aren't you people a bit over reacting?
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User is offline   Person of Color 

  • Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland

#16

View PostHelel, on 09 December 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

Aren't you people a bit over reacting?


That's debatable. I'm not 100% sure it will happen. It's definitely possible. But I'd rather be prepared.
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User is online   X-Vector 

#17

View PostHelel, on 09 December 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

Aren't you people a bit over reacting?


It's just the usual suspects acting out their inner Fox Mulder; I guess that a website concerned with Duke Nukem Forever is a natural home for the want to believe.
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#18

View PostHelel, on 09 December 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

Aren't you people a bit over reacting?


"A bit" is an understatement.
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User is offline   Person of Color 

  • Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland

#19

View PostX-Vector, on 10 December 2011 - 05:13 AM, said:

It's just the usual suspects acting out their inner Fox Mulder; I guess that a website concerned with Duke Nukem Forever is a natural home for the want to believe.


Uhhh...No.

The world financial system is in really bad shape. Even if they are able to keep it from crashing it's going to be in a zombified state, where they are continually propping up major banks with cash injections from central banks. We're already doing that here.

Oh, and for the record - I don't believe in the NWO. I've spent a lot of time reading up on it. It's horseshit. I'm hardly a conspiracy theorist.

This post has been edited by Descent: 10 December 2011 - 06:38 AM

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User is offline   Mikko 

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#20

View PostDescent, on 10 December 2011 - 06:37 AM, said:

The world financial system is in really bad shape. Even if they are able to keep it from crashing it's going to be in a zombified state, where they are continually propping up major banks with cash injections from central banks. We're already doing that here.


This happened in both Finland and Japan at the beginning of the '90s and neither was even close to any kind of a major collapse despite the fact that the ensuing depression in Finland was much more severe than what America is going through now.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#21

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 10 December 2011 - 05:38 AM, said:

"A bit" is an understatement.

:)
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#22

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 10 December 2011 - 06:50 AM, said:

This happened in both Finland and Japan at the beginning of the '90s and neither was even close to any kind of a major collapse despite the fact that the ensuing depression in Finland was much more severe than what America is going through now.


The Eurozone didn't exist back then, and it wasn't in terrible shape like it is now. China didn't have massive artificially inflated asset bubbles. Countries didn't have massive amounts of unpayable debt. It's different now.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#23

You can't find a single point in history where the entire world was on the verge of economic collapse. Not one. This dwarfs the Great Depression. We're only at the beginning.

A year ago people were saying the Muslim Brotherhood taking over the Middle East through a series of revolutions was merely a conspiracy theory. Look where we are now. Nobody believed Greece's collapse would create a domino effect in Europe. Today Italy is on the brink, along with Spain, Ireland, and Portugal. After that it will be Poland, France, and Germany. Keep in mind Germany is considered the dominant economy in Europe. Think about that. They fought two world wars to prevent them from taking everything and now they just hand it over at the end, hoping all will be ok. At this moment Britain is trying to cut itself loose from the EU because they know what is coming.

In short, what Descent said.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 10 December 2011 - 07:33 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#24

A point of contention I have here, which may just be as trivial as Helel brought up, I guess. I see you mentioned the anarchist and communists persuading some people and misguiding them, and I would agree. However, there are some anarchists out there which are not misguiding, such as Jello Biafra, nor ever really bringing up anarchy to these folks. The problem lies with the two different branches of anarchy: "Chaos Idiots" and those who believe in an utopian anarchy. My point is that anarchy and chaos are two separate entities, but since people are stupid anarchy always delves into chaos. Semantics, maybe, but as an anarchist I hate being lumped in with those chaos people, because anarchy to me is an ideal. It's something you work toward, but probably never achieve.

In other news, while I don't think they are overreacting, I don't think that will happen. I can see more profits being extracted if they keep kicking the dead horse for as long as they can, but total economic collapse is ever looming.

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 10 December 2011 - 09:33 AM

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User is offline   Person of Color 

  • Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland

#25

See that's the thing. I'm still only 50/50 on the whole collapse thing. I also feel they'll do whatever it takes to kick the can down the road. I'm doing whatever I can to prepare. It doesn't cost much anyway.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#26

The question people keep avoiding is how many will die during that in-between period. Is any number acceptable? Pose that to anarchists or the Occupy Wall Street protesters. I've seen some of the reactions and it's along the same lines of Nazi apologists. You'll frequently hear "the ends justify the means", but what everyone forgets (especially politicians) is America is about the means. Another reason to throw them all out.

It's embarrassing to see the human race devolve so much in such a short period of time. Nothing was learned from World War 2. Despite all these great technological advances and joining the world together through the internet, we're still a bunch of stupid animals.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 10 December 2011 - 11:56 AM

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User is offline   Person of Color 

  • Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland

#27

"But it's different this time."
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#28

View PostMad Max RW, on 10 December 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

The question people keep avoiding is how many will die during that in-between period. Is any number acceptable? Pose that to anarchists or the Occupy Wall Street protesters. I've seen some of the reactions and it's along the same lines of Nazi apologists. You'll frequently hear "the ends justify the means", but what everyone forgets (especially politicians) is America is about the means. Another reason to throw them all out.

Who says that? Politicians or the anarchists/OWS people you speak of? Either way, that's a bullshit response. The only people I could justify dying are the rich fucks who started this shit, though I'd rather see them go on trial. But lets be reasonable here, once law and order breaks down nobody is gonna wait to put them on trial.

Another point, I'd like to say, is that all of these people who are causing major issues are pulling a major money grab. Well if there is going to be total economic collapse said money is worthless, so like I said, I think they're just as worried about it as we are. They want to stay rich and powerful.
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User is offline   Person of Color 

  • Senior Unpaid Intern at Viceland

#29

CA pretty much outlined why I'm still 50/50 on the whole collapse issue.

Even if the global collapse happened I'm not worried about international conflict. I think there will be regional conflict in the Middle East but not too much else. The scenario would also instill a sense of betrayal toward the citizens/military of the West, making it very difficult for power retention. Good luck controlling troops or instating a draft when no one is on your side. There will be a quick surge of power to keep the populace from destroying each other, but once utilities come back on line, people and military members will organize and clear out the people in command, most likely non violently. This goes for all nations.

There will be some pockets of violence, yes. But I'm not worried about total bloodshed. The Western world has governments operating against the will of their own people. If they are removed from power, without anyone to pull the strings behind the curtains, peace will reign and stability will eventually ensue.

Furthermore, I don't think neoconservatism would survive such a crisis. The Millennial Generation would have no choice to rise and would completely swamp the polls, and our liberal/centrist/libertarian makeup would crush any opposition. We will make up 26% of the voting block by November 2012, and 36% by 2020. We will control any recall elections. We do not have any sort of culture wars dividing us, unlike the Baby Boomers. There will be roughly 50 million of us eligible to vote next year, with a total of 83 million people in our generation. That is a seriously huge number of people working towards the same common goal. Deprive the youth of their future and they will rise like you have never seen before.

The older members of society would still run things, but would have to cater to our demands to win anything even resembling an election.

This post has been edited by Descent: 10 December 2011 - 03:17 PM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#30

View PostDescent, on 10 December 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

We do not have any sort of culture wars dividing us


That is so completely false it actually made me chuckle. The most racist people I ever met are black liberals blaming everything on whites and jews. That brings up another thing. Antisemitism is a HUGE part of the liberal left and the younger generation. It's worse now than ever, according to the ADL. Just take Occupy Wall Street as an example. Almost all of them were white liberal college kids. There were countless numbers preaching anti-Jew and anti-Israel nonsense. This is also hugely popular in universities across the US.

They don't get along among themselves, either. At Zucotti Park they had to separate the different groups attempting to put a stop to the violence. There were tents for women, for gays, for the transgendered, and so on, with their own guards blocking "the others". Meanwhile you had the richest college kids who were organizing the whole thing staying in $700 a night hotels. Do you know what that's called? Segregation. There was even a separate section of the camp they called "The Ghetto" where the worst offenders (drug users, volatile nutcases, rapists, and general creeps) were sent.

Naivety is a dangerous thing.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 10 December 2011 - 03:34 PM

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